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+--- Thread: won't start, (glow plugs)? (/showthread.php?tid=2537)
won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-20-2011
My heap won't start. I charged a little scooter battery the other night off the benz and ever since then there has been a headache.
Took the battery to the store and they charged it and said it was fine. I get fuel pumping and sometimes it seems like I am getting close to having it started.
It was even running for a while yesterday.
The glowplug light on my dash used to be kinda finicky but now I can hardly get it to ever light up. After punching the dashboard and flipping all the switches on the dash.
Where should I look to make sure the plugs are getting hot? Are there relays or fuses? I didn't see any burned fuses in the box.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - aaa - 04-20-2011
Heh, punching the dashboard. There is a strip fuse in the relay itself, replace it. The light also switches on and off based on how much current is going thru the plugs, if a few are burnt out then the light doesn't light up.
When my fuse went on a weekend I shorted it with a screwdriver. Oddly enough I couldn't find any places that sold it until Monday.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-20-2011
thanks for the reply. So, where are these relay and fuse? Under the hood in one of those plastic boxes? Think I should pull out the plugs and inspect them? Who knows how old they are
Is this the relay?
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BAR0/2030067.oap?keyword=glow+plug+relay
http://www.amazon.com/Beck-Arnley-203-0067-Relay/dp/B000CB3CAW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1303348480&sr=8-3
Where is that at? Driver's side wheel well? That part costs like $175. What about those things that plug into to that, are those 2 fuses?
Hopefully I can put in a few new plugs and that will do it.
Do I need all 5 or could I just replace bad ones. And how will I know they are bad, test the voltage between the positive battery and each plug?
Didn't I read something one time about wiring the plugs parallel instead of series to help make sure a few bad apples don't ruin the bunch?
I really hope a couple plugs puts me back on the road. This has got my blood boiling.
So the autotlite are crap
but what about BWD or AC Delco ??
Champion are the high dollar plugs around town.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - aaa - 04-20-2011
The 82 is already in parallel. Find your relay, it's near the driver's wheelwell but more vertical I guess. Right behind the headlight.
Start with the easy fuse first.
You test them with a multimeter, stick the lead in each hole of the connector to the engine to test each one, measure resistance to ground. A huge amount is a broken plug, there's supposed to be a small amount of resistance. There's plenty of inbetween failure range though that wouldn't be as obvious.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-20-2011
![[Image: glowplugloop24.JPG]](http://www.dieselgiant.com/glowplugloop24.JPG)
this one!
thanks dieselgiant
http://www.dieselgiant.com/mercedesdieselloopglowplugrepair.htm
http://www.dieselgiant.com/glowplugrepair.htm
and thanks aaa
We'll see what's up tomorrow afternoon
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - aaa - 04-21-2011
That looks like the old style fuse.
More like this one, the strip right above where he's poking:
http://www.dieselgiant.com/glowplug15.JPG
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-21-2011
Fuse was fine. Made a tester for the plugs too.
+batt ----- speaker ----- glowplug
each one sounded off, the rear most had a bit of trouble but it did eventually go. So there is some continuity. What to test next? The relay? I'll need to get a multimeter.
Is there something in the ignition tumbler? I had trouble with it the other day where it won't actuate the vacuum shutoff valve.
Maybe they are working and the light isn't. Maybe I need to pull them out.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - makin' smoke - 04-21-2011
I would try and test with an ohm meter. Just because you have continuity, that doesn't mean that they are good. A cold motor on a warm day will struggle with 2 bad plugs. It sounds like you at least have one bad. Cranking speed is a big factor also. I had a battery that operated and tested normal, but dropped approx. 50-75 rpm of start speed and the car wouldn't start. Add the jumper and the motor would fire. With a barely noticeable change in sound of the motor cranking. Use a volt meter when cranking and see what you drop to. The smart chargers and testers aren't always right. I have had a few batteries that test good and won't perform. You shouldn't drop below 10.5 volt when cranking. Usually at 11+. On the glow light, it is a separate set of tips in the relay. A lot of times they'll get worn or corroded and you'll have no light. The glow is still functioning. Put your meter on a glow plug and ground if you want to test if your glow is working(plugs getting power) so next time punch the glow relay, not the cluster. Haha.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - stan - 04-21-2011
someone might chew me out for suggesting this, but have you checked if it starts with ether? you can spray some on a clean rag and hold that up to the intake - immediately pull the rag away when the car starts (if it does). dont be retarded about it, im not saying this is a good idea!
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - makin' smoke - 04-21-2011
Ether explodes and too much makes for an awesome bang. Which would probably be followed by a nasty knock, boom,ect. I heard wd-40 would be the only exception. I would recommend for emergency situations only. At the dealer when we would get a road side call for a no start,(mostly up by big bear) we would pull the fuses and give 24v( 2 batt. In series with jumper cables) they would pop right off. But all these ideas are not the fix for the issue at hand. Good ideas for those in a pinch.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-21-2011
I had poured some naphtha in the air intake, still wouldn't fire. Warmer out today we'll see how it goes. I am just really concerned that the light won't go on. It always would before if I just ran the gear selector across the range and back into park. But now it won't light up.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - makin' smoke - 04-21-2011
Do you have a multi meter? You can pick one up for cheap. Test your glow circuit. If all good then move to the battery. 10-15 minutes of troubleshooting and you will probably have an answer.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - Captain America - 04-21-2011
(04-21-2011, 12:07 PM)stan someone might chew me out for suggesting this, but have you checked if it starts with ether? you can spray some on a clean rag and hold that up to the intake - immediately pull the rag away when the car starts (if it does). dont be retarded about it, im not saying this is a good idea!
Ether starting doesn't work too well I've found...
(04-21-2011, 10:57 AM)makin smoke I would try and test with an ohm meter. Just because you have continuity, that doesn't mean that they are good. A cold motor on a warm day will struggle with 2 bad plugs. It sounds like you at least have one bad. Cranking speed is a big factor also. I had a battery that operated and tested normal, but dropped approx. 50-75 rpm of start speed and the car wouldn't start. Add the jumper and the motor would fire. With a barely noticeable change in sound of the motor cranking. Use a volt meter when cranking and see what you drop to. The smart chargers and testers aren't always right. I have had a few batteries that test good and won't perform. You shouldn't drop below 10.5 volt when cranking. Usually at 11+. On the glow light, it is a separate set of tips in the relay. A lot of times they'll get worn or corroded and you'll have no light. The glow is still functioning. Put your meter on a glow plug and ground if you want to test if your glow is working(plugs getting power) so next time punch the glow relay, not the cluster. Haha.
There are some awesome points here! My maroon car had trouble starting because of a slow starter motor, and it was getting 1750 cranking amps!
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-21-2011
my backyard mechanicing may have done her in. As I was pulling the plugs out I got to a bugger of one. The second to rear most plug. Wouldn't budge rounding off and everything. So, I thought I would drill through it perpendicular to the bolt. Then run some metal through and turn it out. But the top just disintegrated.I continued to drill in at the bolt at some cockeyed angle hoping I would be able to get the thing out. I was overzealous and next thing I see is coolant.
I am fairly fucked here. Will have to keep digging into there and see if there is anything that can be done to save her.
I am suck a moron, there I said it so no one else has to.
Maybe I need to try and put on a new head. Though that is quite an undertaking for a backyard mechanic.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - dieselboy - 04-21-2011
Oh that sucks. I like my rust free Cali cars. On a side note the first time I changed a exhaust manifold on a Detroit 8v92 I didn't know that if a stud comes out of the head you will get a coolant bath.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - Captain America - 04-21-2011
Wow. That's pretty shitty, sorry to hear it.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - makin' smoke - 04-21-2011
Noooooooo!!!! Damb it! We learn from our mistakes, and we all make em. There may have been issues with that head anyways. Find yourself a good junk yard donner.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-22-2011
Yeah, thanks for not chastising me. I guess it's crazy that you guys in cali get all the left over rides from rich folks from the 70-80s. These rides were 30-40k back in the day. To me they are still worth what they were then.
Anyway I am pretty sure the plan is to work and save $ up for another 617. There was one plug snapped in half. (the rear most). So yeah, cars near here are no where near as plentiful or as cherry as what you folks in cali have. At least I have a better way of figuring out the bodies/vehicles on the move. Maybe I can get an IP to tweek out and motivation to find a good paying gig.
Seriously though, let me know if you need some parts cause it's all going to scrap soon.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - totaldisaster - 04-23-2011
That blows. But we have all done stupid shit at least once (I take the fifth, here).
Shipping a 617 head will be financially ineffective. Find one locally, check out your yards, craigslist..etc
I could probably ship a head for $200 - $225 in a wooden box. But that would be silly unless the head was in great shape. Most used heads need a rebuild (617).
If you got one locally, you could put that money into the head rebuild, which you will regret not doing later on.
RE: won't start, (glow plugs)? - larsalan - 04-23-2011
It's a bitch and I have been griping about it all over this forum, so I have to apologize for my bad attitude. But, I have learned a lot. The car only cost $520 + 400 freight. I can't wait to find another better benz. Oh, and try and save up some $ to get it. I love the 617 would like to get a wagon but, it seems there are fewer of them than d of cd. We'll have to see what pops. And as long as we're moving I can drive the moving truck now.