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+--- Thread: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project (/showthread.php?tid=2888)
USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 08-21-2011
This thread will show my (slow) progress on the project.
I plan on starting the engine swaps today after I turn some wrenches on the Dodge to make it quit leaking gear oil from the Dana 70...
Here are a few bad pics...
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 08-22-2011
Here is the OM606.910 running with a very free flowing intake/exhaust.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 08-27-2011
Here is a quick update on the somewhat slow progress of this project.
In a short while, the OM606.910 will be removed from the W124:
Box of parts from AutohausAZ.com - I'm replacing the water pump, thermostat, engine mounts, valve cover gaskets, transmission filter, cabin air filter, etc.:
New RIV timing tool - thanks to Rusty at http://buymbparts.biz/ :
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 08-28-2011
Got the OM606.910 out of the W124.131 - worked until the wee hours last night:
Today/tonight I also made a lot of progress on removing the OM606.962 from the W210.025. Not much left to do except for draining coolant, disconnecting a few hoses, unbolt the torque converter and then unbolt the bellhousing:
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - E300TSC - 08-29-2011
Keep plugging away at it. Believe me, I know what it's like to make slow progress. I've been working on my car for about 3 years now.
On a side note, are you really parting out the '99? I could probably use some parts.
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 08-31-2011
Thanks. I'm hoping to start using the W124 as a DD in a week or two...that way I can make my 90mi round trip commute in something other than my 15MPG old plow truck.
Yes, I'm parting out the W210. I'm keeping the OM606 and the 722.6 - nearly everything else is available. Send me an email if you need parts.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - winmutt - 09-01-2011
So its gonna be done this weekend right ?
Any mods? I would love a turbo 606 in a w124. The w210 may be one of the ugliest benzes every made.
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-05-2011
Hey! I love(d) my W210! It's a classy old body...probably a little more round that it needs to be in some places...but still classy AND the only domestic source for the OM606.962 here in the USA.
Quick update on my progress...
OM606.962 removed from the W210's engine bay:
What is better than one OM606? Two OM606's...
722.608 VS. GM 4L80E:
Before fan removal on the W124 (to make room for a FMIC):
My W124 apparently had the "Hidden Pocket Knife" option:
Lots of crud behind the aux electric fans:
Crud behind the fans caused corrosion on the condensor:
No fans, no condensor, no radiator (radiator was also corroded from crud buildup...):
This is why the manifolds on the OM606 do not leak...very good gasket design by MB:
So - here's where we are now...
1) Since this will be a daily driver - I will be keeping the AC. After seeing the condensor, this is probably the source of the leak in the system (there was literally zero pressure in it).
2) Need to order new condensor and radiator (both OEM style). (OEM Behr units ordered on 9/5/2011...)
3) Need to nail down what I'm going to do about the transmission. The 4L80E is ~4" wider than the 722.x series transmissions near the pan...so using that transmission will probably require some cutting and/or gentle massaging of the floor pan.
The 722.608 is an option - but using it will require a $700 standalone controller - which is about the same cost as the transmission adapter needed to adapt the 4L80E to the OM606. Both the 722.608 and the 4L80E will need full rebuilds and reman/new torque converters...so that's sort of a wash.
4) Need to cut the bumper support to fit a large FMIC.
The list is growing...but I'll get it done. This is the first build like this that I have ever completed on my own. I've only worked on custom builds completed by other folks in the past.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - DeliveryValve - 09-05-2011
Looking good! Thanks for the posts.
4L80E - First 2.48, Second 1.48, Third 1.00, Fourth 0.67, R 2.08
722.608- First 3.932, Second 2.408, Third 1.486, Fourth 1.0, Fifth 0.83, R 3.1 9
I think the 722.608 is the better trans in terms of gearing if cost is a wash.
.
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-05-2011
(09-05-2011, 07:45 PM)DeliveryValve Looking good! Thanks for the posts. I think the 722.608 is the better trans in terms of gearing if cost is a wash.
Thanks! I'm trying hard to make this a success!
Cost isn't a complete wash - sorry if I alluded to that. Here's why:
The 722.608 has expensive hard parts - and I'm not exactly sure what is needed in order to upgrade to handle 500-600HP. The only differences (other than the bellhousing) between the diesel version and the version behind the twin-turbo V12's is the number of clutches in a few different clutch packs, number of sun gears on one (maybe two...) planetary sets and the number of clutches in the torque converter. Fitting more clutches into a given clutch pack often requires new hard parts. Luckily, the diesel variant of the 722.6 is halfway there to being upgraded to V12 status. I have 2 different rebuild manuals for the 722.6/W5A580 and it seems to be a VERY simple transmission...something that I like very much.
The 4L80E has very cheap hard parts and nearly every transmission shop and vendor in the USA has these parts in stock. The 4L80E is a bit more complex mechanically to make up for the fact that it was built before modern electronics were good enough to shift a transmission with no bands and only clutch packs and planetary sets (like the 722.6).
Such is my mania, although I'm currently agonizing over finding the right intercooler. I have a roughly 22x20x3 space to fill, so that should provide decent surface area. Finding a pre-made core with those dimensions is proving to be difficult. I'm even contemplating going the air:water route... That's the beauty of this project - I can go any route I want, within reason.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - jonbobshinigin - 09-06-2011
I was under the impression that one would not need to cut the bumper support to install an IC, provided he had an AMG bumper. As such, I have aquired a Lorinser bumper that should do the job...but now I'm second guessing!
Surely an IC can go behind a bumper without modifying the frame?!?!?
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-08-2011
(09-06-2011, 10:50 PM)jonbobshinigin Surely an IC can go behind a bumper without modifying the frame?!?!?
Yes - but if you want an IC big enough to support high HP and high boost (high boost = more heat, more heat = the need for a bigger IC...) then you're going to need to get out the Sawzall.
You could also run an air:water IC. The ambient air to coolant heat exchangers (which feed coolant to the charge air cooler) are usually quite slim compared to an air:air intercooler. Drag racers love air:water IC's since you can feed them icy cold water which allows for cooler than ambient temp charge air temps.
Pulled the trigger on one of these:
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/transcontrol.php
I will be running the Mercedes 722.608 5-speed. Cutting the car to fit the 4L80E just didn't sit well with me, even if the car is far from perfect. In addition to that, I'd still need at least a $500 TCM to control the 4L80E in addition to a $700+ adapter plate.
The only supporting dealer for the Merc/Chrysler 722.6 is Russell Drake out near Seattle. I spoke to him on the phone last night and he really knows his stuff with both the Merc's and the 722.6. Sounds like quite a few of these PCS TCM's have been sent to Finland and other parts in Europe...even to a few of the more famous Finn's who enjoy our beloved OM606.
Lots of parts arriving this week and next!
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - johan84 - 09-14-2011
hello
very interesting that your going to upgrade the 722,6
but what is the goal that you want for the engine
hp/torque?
johan
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-14-2011
(09-14-2011, 03:28 PM)johan84 very interesting that your going to upgrade the 722,6
but what is the goal that you want for the engine
hp/torque?
Eventually, I'd like to see 500hp and that will probably be somewhat more than 800 ft-lbs.
This isn't a big deal for the 722.6 once it is modified a bit since the 722.6 is used behind the 5.7L and 6.1L Hemi gassers...those guys have put almost 1000hp through the 722.6 transmissions. Granted, they've also been upgraded...which includes a modified valvebody and machined hard parts to allow fitment of more clutch/steel plates in each clutch pack. This is a costly upgrade, but if you want it to last very long with high HP/torque, you need more surface area in the clutch packs (via more clutch plates/steels) and more line pressure (via modified valvebody). By the way, there's also a transbrake option available for the 722.6.
Check out Paramount Performance:http://paramountperformanceproducts.com/category/products/
Here is a quick update on my progress...
Exhaust manifold flange arrived from Sweden (http://shop.klracing.se/):
-6AN braided line and fittings (for transmission oil cooler), transmission oil cooler (left), engine oil cooler (right), good beer:
Here's the W124's bumper support - before alteration:
Here's the W124's bumper support - after alteration:
The W210 OM606.962 oil pan will not clear the W124's sway bar. I thought it might fit...but it just wasn't going to happen:
Here is the oil cooler (not used on the OM606.962) after unbolting from the oil pan:
Here is the oil pump - this picture also shows how the oil is fed to the oil cooler bolted to the oil pan (the fittings with the green o-rings):
Here is the oil pan as removed from the W124 (before cleaning) showing the area where the oil cooler bolts up:
Here is the oil pan from the W124 - taking a bath. The pan has interesting design features that direct oil and oil spray from the crankshaft into the sump:
Here is the oil pan after I welded a piece of 0.250" thick plate where the oil cooler would normally bolt up (inside view):
Outside view of the area I welded on the oil pan:
The outside was welded first and I improved a bit on the inside...figures...nobody will see that. Multiple passes were made since a single pass did not penetrate deep enough into the plate as I would like.
As you can see, I'm not exactly a professional welder. I essentially taught myself to weld...and I'm very new to welding aluminum (my attempts at TIG welding aluminum in the past were bad at best...).
Luckily, the oil pan is a very nice alloy to weld - just a little pre-heat with a propane torch is all it took to get a good bead going. The pan is thin in some spots, so you have to be careful. I used my Millermatic 251 MIG welder with a spool gun and 0.035" wire, 16 volts / 288ipm wire feed speed, 100% Argon with plenty of flow.
The plate I welded in place was a piece of scrap I found at work. I made a round piece from the scrap to fit inside the hole in the pan by using a 2.75" holesaw - so I had to fill in the pilot hole with a little welding. This isn't the most glamourous fix...but it'll do.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - aaa - 09-15-2011
There are w124 swaybars out there with an extra bend in the front to clear oil pans.
http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_sway_bars/
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - hansebanger77 - 09-19-2011
hi
do you have a good picture from the trottle linkage of the 606 NA? i think i need one for for the mech. pump from 603.
thx
hans
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 11-10-2011
aaa There are w124 swaybars out there with an extra bend in the front to clear oil pans.
Thanks for the info. I figured there might be different sway bars, but it's unclear which one would clear my oil pan. That might take a lot of trial and error.
hansebanger77 do you have a good picture from the trottle linkage of the 606 NA?
Sorry - I do not have any pictures of the NA OM606 throttle linkage before I plucked it from the engine bay of the W124.
Little update...I really have been working on the car!
The cold weather is settling in - so I'm splitting this project into stages:
Stage I - make it daily driveable ASAP so I don't have to drive the $^&! Dodge.
Stage II - make it daily driveable with the 722.6
Stage II - turn up the fuel and replace the turbo
In no particular order...
Here is the intercooler and some of the pipes in place. This IC core is 24"x12"x4" with 3" inlet/outlet. Go big or go home. You can also see where the engine oil and transmission oil coolers will bolt up above it. All of these steel supports were made from common hardware store steel stock and a bit of MIG welding (the Millermatic needs a new liner for the MIG torch...the wire feed is sporadic at times leading to bad beads). Note: The bottom support for the IC was not yet fabricated in this picture...it's done now.
Painted valve cover with flat black Krylon. Yes, those are wire nuts.
Before EGR delete...
After EGR delete. I had a hard time welding the super thin aluminum tubing to the thicker aluminum intake manifold. It's beyond ugly...but it should hold. "Hey, at least I did it myself with my own tools..." ... "Whatever, man...it's still ugly."
Bumper cover airflow mod - before:
Bumper cover airflow mod - after. Looks a little bit rice...but the materials were free and it will be functional.
That's about all I have for now in terms of pictures. The OM606.962 is up and running with the mechanical M-pump. It took me a while to get it timed right but it's dead nuts set @ 14° ATDC now. I have a little bit to finish up on the 3" IC piping, then there's the air filter and just general assembly of everything else. Like I said - for now I just need to get the thing to a daily driver state. The old Dodge is not a good vehicle to drive 450mi/week.
Beers,
Matt
I just found some other pics on my phone...
Here's how I plugged off the EGR port on the exhaust manifold.
I ground down a common black iron reducer fitting (3/8" to 1/8" NPT) so that it would fit in the hole.
Welded it in there and then plugged it off with a galvanized 1/8" NPT plug. I may use this for an EGT thermocouple or even turbine inlet pressure. I figured I may as well get some use out of this instead of just capping it off.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - Captain America - 11-10-2011
Looks good dude. Like the bumper mod myself ...
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - DanielK - 11-12-2011
Needs one of the really old Mercedes grills. The very tall ones, you know? That'd be the tits.
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - Hario' - 12-14-2011
Awesome project! Keeping an eye on this one.
If its no trouble would you mind posting the OD of the EGR flanges on your manifolds? Im devising a V-band block to accompany an EGR delete on my E300.
Also impressive sized parts cleaner I see, we use the domestic-dishwasher-parts-cleaner..
My experience of using the 722.6 it is a very good transmision!
H.
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 01-22-2012
(12-14-2011, 08:00 PM)Hario Awesome project! Keeping an eye on this one.
If its no trouble would you mind posting the OD of the EGR flanges on your manifolds? Im devising a V-band block to accompany an EGR delete on my E300.
Also impressive sized parts cleaner I see, we use the domestic-dishwasher-parts-cleaner..
My experience of using the 722.6 it is a very good transmision!
H.
I can get the OD of the EGR flange on the OM606.910, the EGR flange on the OM606.962 is not readily accessible at this point since the engine is installed in the car. If the measurement from the OM606.910 will suffice, let me know. My digital calipers were left out in the cold shop...I'm currently allowing them to warm up so that they'll function with weak batteries.
The parts washer is a 40-gallon unit I bought on a clearance (scratch-n-dent) sale from Tractor Supply Co.:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/jobsmart-reg-parts-washer-40-gal--3900801
So far, I really like it. Money well spent even if I don't use it every time I'm out in the shop.
The 722.6 is indeed a good transmission. In the meantime, I'm going to figure out how good the 722.4 is.
After the pan has been full of oil for quite some time - no leaks at all from the spot I welded. I have a few leaks coming from the oil pan bolts in the rear...I didn't put any RTV on those bolts. Lesson learned.
It has been cold out lately - not much work in the garage. I'm a big baby when it comes to temperature extremes. When I was younger, it never used to bother me.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - jonbobshinigin - 01-23-2012
I would love to see some more shots of the IC mounting and how it feels spooling wise after the IC install!
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - majesty78 - 01-23-2012
(11-10-2011, 01:21 AM)HoleshotHolset Here's how I plugged off the EGR port on the exhaust manifold.
Welded it in there and then plugged it off with a galvanized 1/8" NPT plug. I may use this for an EGT thermocouple or even turbine inlet pressure. I figured I may as well get some use out of this instead of just capping it off.
Beers,
Matt
Hy Matt,
you should not use the EGR port for EGT probe.
Readings from this sensor location will not be anything near from what to call accurate. Not even a good estimated guess.
If you want useful readings, place the EGT probe in turbine inlet area where exhaust gases from all 6 cylinders are collected.
And don't think that you just add a 100 or 200° to the readings from EGR port, this does not work due to gas dynamics and gas behaviour in different pressure and flow status have great influence on temperature.
Regards Alex
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 01-24-2012
I understand your concern. However, on the OM606.962, the EGR port on the manifold is in close proximity to the #6 exhaust port. Using a normal thermocouple inserted at a reasonable depth in this location would yield an EGT reading for that cylinder, rather than an "average" temp if the thermocouple was closer to the turbine inlet.
I'm still not sure if I will do this, but I easily gave myself the option of doing so at a later date if I so please.
On edit: Quite a few race and R&D engines have one thermocouple per cylinder and then others mounted pre/post the turbine housing. It's all in how you interpret the data
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - sassparilla_kid - 05-08-2012
Any more progress on this lately? I'm curious to see how everything turns out
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 06-05-2012
There has been some progress...sorry - no pics as of right now. (I took pics, but just can't post them right now)
New radiator installed and filled with coolant
New A/C condenser, receiver drier and pressure switches installed
Modification of throttle linkage/intake manifold (v1.0) complete and painted
Intercooler mount finalized and painted (flat black)
Finalized my turbo decision - went with a Holset HE351VE...investigating methods of controlling the VNT/VGT vanes...
Undecided on exhaust manifold - since it's a daily driver, do I trust a hand-made manifold? I don't have time to screw around with something a whole lot. (Work has been really busy the last 6 months...)
I'm probably forgetting some things I've completed since the last time I posted here on the thread. I should be able to put some time into the project in the coming weeks and post up some pics on this thread. I really need to get this thing going...
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - johan84 - 06-15-2012
i see you removed the EGR
can that be done without any
problems??
i see you removed the EGR
can that be done without any
problems??
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 06-17-2012
(06-15-2012, 02:36 PM)johan84 i see you removed the EGR
can that be done without any
problems??
Yes.
I don't anticipate any issues whatsoever after getting rid of this.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - johan84 - 06-18-2012
(06-17-2012, 09:47 PM)HoleshotHolset(06-15-2012, 02:36 PM)johan84 i see you removed the EGR
can that be done without any
problems??
Yes.
I don't anticipate any issues whatsoever after getting rid of this.
Beers,
Matt
thanks
good to know for in the future
(06-17-2012, 09:47 PM)HoleshotHolset(06-15-2012, 02:36 PM)johan84 i see you removed the EGR
can that be done without any
problems??
Yes.
I don't anticipate any issues whatsoever after getting rid of this.
Beers,
Matt
thanks
good to know for in the future
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - Simpler=Better - 06-18-2012
You should be able to run a push-pull setup using opposed pressure and vacuum actuators for the VNT. Just set your minimum stop to be something reasonably (the 3cm min opening is a little small).
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 06-19-2012
(06-18-2012, 02:02 PM)Simpler=Better You should be able to run a push-pull setup using opposed pressure and vacuum actuators for the VNT. Just set your minimum stop to be something reasonably (the 3cm min opening is a little small).
Yeah, I was thinking of trying a setup like that until I can find an electronic version.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-04-2012
Little update - I recently had it out on the streets terrorizing the local deer population...
I have an oil leak somewhere on the pan, but other than that, she's good to go for v1.0. The intercooler and 3" pipes are working very well based on a quick feel of the pipes pre/post IC core. (For the test run, I had the wastegate clamped shut on the stock KKK turbo from the OM606.962.)
v1.5 is starting to take shape. KKD Motorsports manifold is ready, HE351VE is ready...now I just need to send one of the "M" pumps to trei a høliday in Sweden to see Dieselmeken and the løveli lakes.
140cc of fuel out of the Series 1 pump elements should be plenty of fuel for a daily driver. The Series 2 elements put out quite a bit more, but with moderate rack travel there's a big surge of fuel and that might make it interesting to drive on the street.
v1.75 is still in the planning stages. I need to rebuild the 722.6 and start gathering parts for that swap.
Beers,
Matt
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - Purplecomputer - 09-04-2012
awesome work, car looks great!
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-05-2012
(09-04-2012, 11:58 PM)Purplecomputer awesome work, car looks great!
Thanks!
RE: USA W124/OM606 daily driver/superturbo project - HoleshotHolset - 09-09-2012
Here are a few pics showing the build progress.
This shows the cutout I had to make on the OM606.962 intake manifold to allow the mechanical throttle linkage to clear.
She's in the weeds - I have not started the lower bumper modificationsand fabrication...but I will probably drive it like this for a while. It looks lower than it really is...the grass is rather tall.
KKD Motorsports manifold with T3 flange. I was going to have them make the manifold with the WGMT flange to fit the Holset HE351VE, but if that turbo didn't work, I'd be stuck with a goofy flange.
Final layout of the engine oil cooler (left), transmission oil cooler (right), A/C condensor, radiator, etc. The bottom fitting on the transmission oil cooler tightened up too soon - I wanted it to face downwards...so I just ran the line as-is for now. No leaks on any of this. Engine oil cooler lines are -10AN and the transmission is -6AN. I had some issues with the brackets warping while welding - so they're not perfectly straight. Oops!
Another trip to the local NAPA store - this time to modify the power steering lines. The W124 and W210 power steering pumps are different - so the pressure lines are different too. I wanted to use the W210 pump since it bolted right up, didn't leak oil all over like the W124 pump, etc. It's higher pressure (designed for rack and pinion steering instead of a power assisted steering box), but not by much - 70-80psi difference, IIRC. Having these fittings put on the lines allowed this to be a pretty simple swap. Time will tell if the extra pressure will kill the steering box.
This shot shows the custom bracket I fabricated and welded to the OEM W124 throttle linkage.
Throttle linkage and bracket all painted up and mounted. In these pictures, you can also see the second hole I machined in the manifold that allows adjustment of the injection pump. I'm not sure how much I will need to mess with this adjustment - but by doing this quick and easy little modification, I won't have to remove the intake manifold to make the adjustment.
Here is a shot of the CAC pipes. I tried like crazy to keep them simple and without a lot of bends...but there's only so much you can do when trying to package things nicely and avoid them rubbing on 16 different things under the front of the vehicle. The spoolgun MIG welds are crappy looking...but they'll hold.
Right now I'm chasing an oil leak at the rear of the oil pan. I dumped in some UV dye and it seems like the oil is running down the threads of some of the long oil pan bolts. Perhaps some RTV placed on the threads will cure this...? I will find out soon. I had it out on the road again today - it seems to drive well...needs more fuel, but Dieselmeken can help me with that. He just needs to tell me which pump I should send to Sweden.
Beers,
Matt