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+--- Thread: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed (/showthread.php?tid=357)
Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-11-2009
Picked 'er up on Saturday. So far, I love the car. It's WAY fancier than anything I've ever owned...and goes down the road like a dream.
Does it have rattles? Sure. Is it perfect? Heck no.
BUT - it has an OM606.962 under the hood and so far I REALLY like that little engine. Goes pretty good...but the OEM turbo is tiny....for now.
OK - back to the thread subject...
Anyone ever experience delayed 3-4 shifts on the 722.6? All other shifts are just dandy.
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - ForcedInduction - 05-11-2009
Its all electronic. Not having ever driven a W210 before, I don't know exactly what its supposed to shift like. I'd change the "filled for life" ATF first and see if it improves.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-12-2009
haha "filled for life"....
I'd love to even check the fluid level in the thing...but the car doesn't have a dipstick. All it has is a little cover labeled "MB workshop only" or some crazy thing like that...it keeps the dipstick tube under lock and key. I have no idea why they're so paranoid about people checking the level and/or keeping dirt out...
I gotta find a dipstick - ran across some on the web yesterday, but I wasn't 100% sure they were selling the proper piece.
1-2, 2-3, 4-5 shifts are just dandy. Makes a guy wonder if there's something amiss with the 3-4 shift solenoid...
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-13-2009
The dot 6 trans does have a totally different shift feel to it then any prior trans. If you want to check the fluid level I suggest going to the dealer and purchasing the universal dipstick (part# 140 589 15 21 00) This dipstick is for all vehicles with the dot 6 trans. After checking the fluid if you still have a problem, I would have it scanned with the MB SDS machine, that will usually indicate a shift solenoid problem. The only problems I have ever seen with this trans is a leak where the harness plugs into the transmission (some cases the fluid will travel up the harness and cause further problems) If you see this leaking (front right corner of the trans pan) take care of it ASAP. The only other problem with the trans is the plastic plate that the solenoids mount to goes bad, this is called the conductor plate, usually this problem will cause a check engine light though.
If you need any more information regarding this vehicle let me know.
Also if the trans is low make sure to use the MB trans oil (it is a special synthetic fluid), any other trans oil will cause problems in the electronic trans.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-13-2009
Awesome! Thanks for the info on the dipstick + usual suspects.
I'll see what I can dig up and will post my results here on the board.
I'd love to take the car to Indiana and back in a few weeks for the big "Thunder in Muncie" National Association of Diesel Motorsports event...not to compete - just to watch.
Also - describing the shift as "delayed" might not be accurate. Right as the 3-4 shift is occurring - the engine speeds up quite a bit...almost as if it's slipping. So I usually lift up on the soot pedal during that time and she doesn't exhibit the problem at all. Once in 4th, it doesn't slip at all.
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-13-2009
How many miles are on the car?
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-14-2009
(05-13-2009, 01:03 PM)MB TECH How many miles are on the car?
The vehicle in question is the critter mentioned in my signature. She's ~142k miles young.
3-4 shift issue seemed drastically improved this morning on the way to work...and then reappeared once I got close to my destination 45-min later. So - it would seem that heat is a factor in this.
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - ForcedInduction - 05-14-2009
Humm. Sounds like it may be a faulty solenoid after all.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-14-2009
Well its kind of a toss up without using the SDS machine, I have seen more probelms with the conductor plate than solenoids, and the plate is made of plastic which expands and contracts with heat. At minimum I would at least have a dealer run a Quicktest on the SDS and just ask for the printout. If you do decide to get a test ran on it let me know the codes and I can give you an idea of what it will be. The repairs themselves are pretty simple.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-15-2009
Oh goodie...a trip to the MB dealer. That's gonna be cheap.
Does this SDS machine find codes/data that a normal OBDII scan tool will not find? I can only imagine that the data is more verbose with a MB specific setup.
The reason I ask is because I've always wanted to pick up a good/used scan tool. If it won't do much more than retrieve DTC's on the Benz, that's not much more help than a cheap code reader from Wal-Mart. I've used a Snap-On MT-2500 many times...but that's old tech and it's $nap-on...pricey as all getup.
Since a lot of Xler cars/trucks have the 722.6 as well, can they scan it too...or will they be afraid of it? CAN networks are so simple, why did they have to make them so complicated?
Thanks again!
Cheers,
Matt
(via iP3G...hope it works!)
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - Telecommbrkr - 05-15-2009
(05-15-2009, 06:10 AM)HoleshotHolset Oh goodie...a trip to the MB dealer. That's gonna be cheap.
HAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't care who ya are, thaaats funny!!
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-16-2009
Well - maybe just a hookup to their diagnostic machine won't be so bad...The conductor plates run about $200 from what I've seen. Now the quest to find them cheaper! Plastic?! Come on, MB....that's kinda lame.
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-18-2009
You might be able to get codes from an aftermarket scanner but it needs to have the capability to plug into the 38 pin plug at the underhood fusebox. The OBD II plug under the dash will not give you much info on the 210 chassis. They should only charge 1 hour labor for a scan at a dealer and that varies based on there rate, I know we are at $97 an hour. On the conductor im not aware of any cheaper or aftermarket plates out there. Let me know what you end up doing and if you need any additional help.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-18-2009
OK - that makes sense. I wasn't sure if this car would expose much of anything via the OBD-II port or not...that answers my question.
I'm going to look into whether the Chrysler variants of this transmission use the same part. If so, I'd imagine that someone with a Charger/Magnum/etc. has had this issue before and that a cheaper alternative is available. In the end, $200 to fix it isn't so bad.
Dealers are hurting for work and sales, perhaps they wouldn't rake me over the coals too badly.
Thanks a bunch for your help - you're providing information that is not and never will be in a service manual. I have to get one of those too...there's another $200.
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-20-2009
Parts are on the way...
I gave up on trying to find an aftermarket conductor plate and ordered a normal OEM unit amongst many other parts from RM European...all 3 rear diff seals, both oil level sensor seals, etc.
Is there a major brand of readily available synthetic ATF we can use in these 722.6's - or only the MB stuff with gold flakes in it?
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-20-2009
I am not aware of any other aftermarket fluid available, but I also dont deal too much with the aftermarket world. When you replace the conductor plate it would be a good idea to ohm out the solenoids while you have them out, just to make sure. Did you ever get the codes ran on the trans problem?
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-21-2009
(05-20-2009, 04:05 PM)MB TECH I am not aware of any other aftermarket fluid available, but I also dont deal too much with the aftermarket world. When you replace the conductor plate it would be a good idea to ohm out the solenoids while you have them out, just to make sure. Did you ever get the codes ran on the trans problem?
OK - I'll see what I can dig up for info. I wasn't sure if a common fluid cross reference for this tranny was one of those things that 'everyone' knew about besides me since I'm very new to MB's.
I wanted to find a new o-ring for that massive connector on the conductor plate...no such luck. I'm more concerned about getting it to shift right first...then I will attack other things. Changing out that o-ring is important, though - I don't want to short out the computer with ATF like others have done when that seal fails and lets ATF flow through the wires. Nevermind diodes - these wires need check valves! haha
I have not had the car run on the SDS. After reading all about the conductor plate, I figured I'd throw a $200 common failure part at it first... I got the parts last night - man....they packed a lot of stuff into that one little molded plastic piece.
Thanks again for your help. If I ever run across any of you guys out in real life - beer's on me.
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-21-2009
For the oring on the connector you need what is called a pilot bushing (it is the female part of the connector and it comes with the orings on it.) this must be removed before pulling down the conductor plate. I wanna say they are only $30. and I do not believe you can buy just the orings.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-26-2009
(05-21-2009, 12:58 PM)MB TECH For the oring on the connector you need what is called a pilot bushing (it is the female part of the connector and it comes with the orings on it.) this must be removed before pulling down the conductor plate. I wanna say they are only $30. and I do not believe you can buy just the orings.
Very good info - I'll see if I can order that up - along with the driveshaft bearing, bearing hangar...and some halfshaft bolts. So that pilot bushing is what leaks and can allow ATF to travel through the wires. Gotcha.
I tried to change the differential oil seals over the weekend. Dang external torx head bolts on the halfshafts stopped me in my tracks. I rounded one off (crusty rust didn't help) and decided to quit until I had all new bolts in hand.
Thanks!
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 05-27-2009
Ya that happens alot with those bolts. They are tightened down pretty tight and have thread locker on them. You should be able to just cut the head of the bolt off and pull the rest out with a vise grip after you remove the axle.
Buy ya those pilot bushings will cause some issues if you let them go for a long time.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 05-27-2009
You can say that again. I had my long 1/2" ratchet on them and I thought the bolt was going to break before it finally cracked loose.
I do plan on cutting the heads off the onery ones...and probably replace them all with traditional hex head grade 8 fasteners. (might have to weld on some nuts...not sure vice grips will loosen the really nasty ones)
Got the driveshaft support/hangar, support bearing and an 'adapter plug' - aka the infamous connector/pilot bushing. It was only $6.00 and change and included the o-rings.
I've got my work cut out for me now.
Thanks again for your help!
Cheers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 06-02-2009
Well - I was up until nearly 3AM today working on the W210.
Got the valvebody down, new conductor plate and plug in...refilled with ATF and drove it to work today.
3-4 shift when hot is very much improved...but still not as firm/fast as I'd like it to be.
The fluid was nasty - probably original. Not much in the way of metal or friction material in the pan...especially for the miles.
I have pics of the process if anyone would like me to put them up.
Thanks again for the advice - we're making headway with this car!
Beers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - MB TECH - 06-02-2009
Definetely post some pictures, did you get a chance to ohm out the shift solenoids while you had it down?
It also should improve as you put more miles on it since the shift adaptations were probably way off from the old shift plate.
A normal trans adaptation usually takes a few days if you dont have the SDS machine.
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 06-03-2009
OK - I'll post pics up soon. Nothing exciting, though. The one picture of the transmission missing the VB/conductor plate is eerie.
I did not do any testing with the solenoids - forgot all about it to be honest. I gave them a decent visual inspection - to make sure the o-rings weren't bad, etc.
That's good to know about the adaptation process. I wasn't sure if I'd have to disconnect the battery or something like that.
The 3-4 shift is very good when it's cold and way better than it was when it warmed up...but it's still hesitating a bit. Nice improvement, no doubt.
Beers,
Matt
RE: Got a '99 W210, 3-4 shifts can be delayed - HoleshotHolset - 06-23-2009
The saga continues.... (I know - I promised pics at some point).
After putting well over 1k miles on the new conductor plate, I can't say it really helped much at all. On Sunday morning - the darn thing would not go into drive when started cold. I put it in reverse, then drive and it was fine. 3-4 shift when hot is still goofy.
Today - the darn thing wouldn't come out of 3rd...then when I slowed down it was doing 2nd gear starts (limp home mode). I rebooted the engine (ha!) and everything was just fine.
Am I looking at a bad transmission computer? I know - I'm probably just throwing parts at it unless I take it to the dealer and let them run it on their diagnostic equip.
Is this sucker under the hood like the engine ECM? If so, and I find a used one (car-part.com lists quite a few for $75 and up...) - will it plug-n-play, or does it need to be programmed with the right VIN and/or programmed so that it will shift properly?
I tell ya. Once I get the transmission squared away and get rid of the vibration/steering wheel shake - this car is going to be darn near perfect.
Thanks again for your help, guys!
Cheers,
Matt