+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? (/showthread.php?tid=3868)
Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - Simpler=Better - 08-22-2012
From what I've read, VM Motori diesels use a throttle body to starve the engine on shutdown in order to reduce the crazy engine shake on shutdown (We all know how shutting down a 617 feels)
Could a butterfly be added to starve the engine of air at low rpm to smooth out the idle->2,000 rpm when using a superpump? Some kind of a setup to make it more streetable, and then disable it when flooring it?
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - ronnie - 08-22-2012
the 1980's 616 did use a throttle in the intake manifold. No idea if this is a workable idea.
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - Mark_M - 08-22-2012
lots of diesels use a throttle body but I have no idea how they are timed. most if not all the ones I can think of are electronic controlled either common rail or electronic pumps. Here is an example that Delphi does http://delphi.com/manufacturers/cv/powertrain/engine-controls-and-exhaust-flow-management/diesel-electronic-throttle-controls/
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - Gearbound - 08-23-2012
the mk4 tdi VW use anti shudder valve in the intake of the plumbing and i believe it is vacuum operated... toyota diesels old and some new use a butterfly valve in the intake but i am unsure of the purpose? maybe something to look into..
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - willbhere4u - 08-23-2012
The older Mercedes diesel om616/om615 used throttle body because the pumps where not governed! with out the throttle body the engine would just run away!
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - OM616 - 08-23-2012
(08-22-2012, 11:10 AM)Simpler=Better From what I've read, VM Motori diesels use a throttle body to starve the engine on shutdown in order to reduce the crazy engine shake on shutdown (We all know how shutting down a 617 feels)
Could a butterfly be added to starve the engine of air at low rpm to smooth out the idle->2,000 rpm when using a superpump? Some kind of a setup to make it more streetable, and then disable it when flooring it?
Regardless of it being a Super Pump or stock, the engine should idle smooth, baring a mechanical issue. From what I have seen with the stock MW pumps, the element timing and balancing tolerance speck is pretty large to begin with. Then the addition of marginal quality / designed large elements that are installed with the stock tolerances is added to the mix and the result is an engine that runs like crap at low speeds, at high speeds you don't notice it as much, but it is still running like crap, smoking and high EGTs.
IMOP focus should be on getting a quality pump, not a way to mask the problem. And what I mean by a quality pump is that the specks that are used are way tighter than Bosch specks. Even MB issued a bulletin to deal with complaints about a ruff idle, and the fix was to balance the elements closet to each other. With 7 or 10 mm elements, it does not take much of an imbalance to make the engine shake.
Just my unsolicited 2 cents.
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - Simpler=Better - 08-23-2012
I agree about balancing everything, what I'm talking about is smoothing the action when you go from a touch of pedal to say 15% pedal? As I understand it a modded pump, balanced or not, will feel like an on/off switch. I don't know firsthand, I don't have a superpump :p
RE: Throttle body to smooth superpumps? - OM616 - 08-24-2012
(08-23-2012, 06:20 PM)Simpler=Better I agree about balancing everything, what I'm talking about is smoothing the action when you go from a touch of pedal to say 15% pedal? As I understand it a modded pump, balanced or not, will feel like an on/off switch. I don't know firsthand, I don't have a superpump :p
If the plungers have sharp stepped retarding notches as apposed to angled or progressive, that can do what you are describing, also poor idle governor set up will do the same thing, can make it want to hunt at idle or just off idle as well.