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+--- Thread: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? (/showthread.php?tid=3945)
HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - MONSTER 300D - 09-23-2012
Hello guys and gals.
This is my first post here, and I will get right to the point.
We have owned since March 2011 a 1983 MB 300D turbodiesel. It has a great body, fair paint (that will be repainted to PPG Strong Black) and needs a major interior overhaul. Since buying the car, I have replaced both front "headlight doors" as Benz calls them, and both front corner markers. The car has 419,xxx miles on it. After a year of tweaking & tuning on this car, and following some good advice about tuning OM617's with the ALDA and fuel pump settings, I have reached a dead end. The litttle 3L diesel is only pushing the car from 0-60 in about 14 seconds.
Now, here is the deal:
I do not have unlimeted funds, but I DO have a fairly large budjet for restoring this car. As far as paint & interior go, I know how and will do 90% of that work MYSELF to save some $$$.
I am figuring on spending $3k - $4k on the engine part of this project. What I want is a 0-60 time in the low 7 second range.
Is that even POSSIBLE with a OM617/4speed auto 300D ????
This car has the MW pump, factory turbo (kkk), and everything is bone stoc, with the exeption of blocking off the EGR with a plate and a disconected wastegate. (Max boost is 22psi at WOT, Post Turbo EGT's peak right at 1300 only for a few secvonds and stay well under 1000 during 1/2 to 3/4 throttle acceleration. )
One thing that can NOT change, whatever I do, it has to keep/have an automatic transmission. I dont really give squat about "keeping it orriginal" and all that. What I want is an unusual, cool, different kind of weekend warrior. Maybe be just enough faster to piss off all the V6 Mustangs & Eclipse GT's & Cellicas that dominate our town!
(I know out running a Mustang GT is not possible)
We street race a lot here. But totaly LEGALY. We just see who can go from 0 to whatever the posted speed limit is the fastest! lol
Some things I know I am going to have to have:
* A bigger/better turbo
* Intercooler
* Monarch injector nozzles
* Rebuild the fuel pump with upgraded larger pump pistons.
* New exhaust system. (Currently still stock with the exeption on a resonator delete)
I have a freind who is a semi truck diesel machanic, but we just dont know WHAT PARTS we need to build this project. He can do most of the engine work, but it is up to me to do the research and find out exactly what parts we need. And I kinda need to know where is the best place to buy them from. Also of note, the engine is being pulled next month for a complete tear down & rebuild, just so we will KNOW the condition of the internals of the engine.
Lastly, IF it is possible to get the little Benz to run a 7 sec. 0-60, am I looking at future transmission problems?
I have a Chevy 283 V8 bored .030 over, forged pistons, Lunati 268 dur. cam, port/polished heads, Eddlebrock 650 carb, shorty headders, ready to go. But was wanting to use that engine in our '65 Chevy C1 Stepside. But if need be, sticking that motor in the 300D IS an potion. However, the "coolness" of the 300D and what drew me to the car in the first place was because it IS a TurboDiesel!
So I would prefer to KEEP IT THAT WAY if at all possible!
Anyone have a "blueprint" that I can use to reach my goal?
Thanks in advance for any good replys!
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - larsalan - 09-23-2012
0-60 myb more like 9 sec
prolly need a little newer motor to easily get that push you want.
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - JustPassinThru - 09-23-2012
I too have been seeking to build a sub-7-second W123 OM617a 300D with an automatic transmission. A series of financial disasters this year has sidelined me though.
As larsalan says, the surest way would be to go to a newer Mercedes diesel motor, such as the OM606 with which several Scandinavians are making whopping horsepower. Or maybe American iron, a Chevy small-block gasser. Should be able to fit an LS-1 in.
But, if you insist on using the stock OM617a diesel, running down your list...we're all pioneers. Nobody is selling a kit.
Very roughly:
1. Rebuild the fuel pump with upgraded larger pump "pistons" (plungers) (and barrels): inquire of forum member tomnik about his "7.5 mm Super Floyd" elements. You will need to purchase a used "M pump" (European 300D injector pump) and mail it to Finland to get modified. Around $1600-$1800.
2. Bigger/better turbo: opinions vary. Three suggestions, in no particular order: a. Garrett GT2359V. b. Holset HX-30W. c. Garrett T3-T04 hybrid with 60-trim compressor wheel. Don't ask me for more details, I'm still fishing around myself. At this point I suspect that even better than these might be a stock KKK K26 with a newer KKK (actually, Borg-Warner) 65-millimeter-exducer-diameter extended-tip compressor wheel, provided the compressor housing and backplate can be machined to accept it. But that is just my wild-ass speculation.
Search this forum, you will find advocates of each of a-b-c. Figure on spending $500-$700 to get a good turbo. If you choose the Garrett GT2359V, you must devise a method of controlling its variable geometry vanes. Again, search this forum. In connection with the turbo, you will want to find a 1978-79 non-EGR 300SD exhaust manifold, these run $150-$200. You'll also need an EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge, so you don't go too far on any fuel or boost adjustment. And a boost gauge. Transmission oil temp gauge is a good idea too. Exhaust manifold pressure gauge also helps. Or, you might be able to combine these gauges digitally into an Arduino or similar setup. Search this forum. Also, many ditch the stock air filter and its housing and run a Fram 8038 air filter, though a bent pipe, with the filter tucked behind the right headlamp. If you do this, be sure to devise some sort of trap and catchcan for the valve cover ventilation hose to let the crankcase's oil vapor fumes get collected and, hopefully, returned to the oil pan.
3. Intercooler. The best success has been with homemade air-water intercoolers, but some are using under-front-bumper long thin air-air IC's. One or two are using the 11-inch-square Blackstone air-air IC out of 1980's Saab 900's. Hooking up an air-air IC is easier if you get an intake manifold which has a snout. The most commonly used one is the pre-1977 (W115) non-EGR 300D intake manifold, which you see once in awhile for sale for $150-$200. Some have tried the W123 non-turbo 300D intake manifold but there are clearance issues with the turbo. frozenboost.com sells air-water intercoolers in an assortment of configurations, anywhere from $120-$220. You could make an air-water intercooler, if you can weld aluminum, out of a FrozenBoost and a W115 intake manifold.
4. Monark injector nozzles. The 261's or 265's or 315's. If you find some, I'm sure people will want to know where to get them.
5. New exhaust system (Currently still stock with the exception of a resonator delete). No, not really needed. Just get a 3-inch downpipe.
6. Transmission. I'm a little at sea. What I have done is, I pulled the 722.311 transmission from a 1985 European 500SE (240 horsepower engine), but I'm not sure if I'll go that route. It could be possible to get away with just strengthening the stock automatic transmission.
7. Differential and axles. Ideal would be the 2.65 LSD rear end out of a late-'70's 450SEL 6.9. Mercedes made less than 8,000 of them. Good luck finding one. It might be possible to use a Generation I W126 2.47 LSD rear end with pinion and ring gears swapped in from a W124 2.65 rear end, just maybe. No one has ever done it before.
You'll also want:
8. Larger front brakes, out of a Generation II W126. But to use these you'll have to go to 15" or larger wheels.
9. Bilstein HD shocks, all around.
10. Front sway bar out of a W123 300TD wagon (larger than the sedan's, better cornering).
Frankly, at this point I am uncertain if I will be financially able to continue this hobby. If I decide to bail out, I can sell you the M-pump, the 1978-79 non-EGR 300SD exhaust manifold, all the gauges, the W115 intake manifold, a Saab Blackstone air-air intercooler, a set of five new Monark 261 nozzles and shims et cetera to go with them, the 722.311 transmission, a 1982 300SD transmission if you'd prefer to work from that, and/or the W123 wagon front sway bar. Also the 140 MPH speedometer to go with the 722.311. Or, if you stick with the stock transmission and just beef that up, I have a 160 MPH mechanical speedometer. Also a nose bra, combined radiator-and-oilpan skid plate, and assorted odds and ends for the interior, including a W201 steering wheel (almost 2 inches smaller diameter than the stock wheel), rear headrests, the original trunk toolkit and Euro warning triangle, excellent front seat cushions, a manual climate control complete, and an early R107 wood shifter knob.
I am sure that others will chime in with their own opinions.
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - MONSTER 300D - 09-24-2012
Good greif you've got a lot of stuff! Sounds like you have been at this a while! :-)
All good info. But disapointing to hear I am stuck with a best case senario of 9 sec. 0-60. That SUCKS!
My nearly bone stock 1996 Ford Escourt Pony would do it in 9.6 every time. That's horrible!
Looks like if I want it fast, a good 'ol Chevy SB350/700R4 would be the best way to go.
I can buy a '95 Oldsmobille with 122k on the odo. that allready HAS a 350/700r4 and WORKING A/C for $1200 Bet it would push the 1000 lb LIGHTER 300D down the road quite nicely!
Oh well. Guess I'll just have to have a "MONSTER 300" without the "D" :-(
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - JustPassinThru - 09-25-2012
(09-24-2012, 07:41 PM)MONSTER 300D ...disapointing to hear I am stuck with a best case senario of 9 sec. 0-60...I can buy a '95 Oldsmobille with 122k on the odo. that allready HAS a 350/700r4 and WORKING A/C for $1200 Bet it would push the 1000 lb LIGHTER 300D down the road quite nicely!
A forum member calling himself "DervTuning" posted video of a 6-second 0-60 run, in a 1985 300D with the stock OM617a engine with 7.5 mm elements in the IP, using a T3/T04 turbo and water injection. He reported 253 rwhp, 325 lbs/ft of torque. Unfortunately, he was an IP rebuilder, several members sent their IP's to him to get modded, and he took the cash and disappeared. But the few who got his rebuilt IP's before he vanished were very happy.
Another forum member, "Rudolf_Diesel", combined an Eaton M90 supercharger with a Chinese clone of a Garrett GT35 and was able to pull an 11-second (NOPE, I stand corrected, it was 15, see next post) quarter-mile.
A fellow in Finland named "Jeemu" has built one of these motors to 500 hp. But with too much smoke to use as a daily driver.
But, yes, I expect that if you can shoehorn a Chevy or Olds 350 in, with a 700R4 behind it, that will scoot nicely. Of course, you can't burn cheap fuel, waste vegetable oil from restaurants, in it like several of us do. Side note: my younger sister has a 1968 Olds Delmont 88 2-door coupe with under 17,000 original miles, with the "good" 350 in it, the one people like to bore out to 420. The car is for sale, she'll take $8500. Only significant things wrong with it are, it's sat in a damp garage for ten years. Mildewy, though not extravagantly so. And there's rust in the engine compartment. Not beyond cleaning up though, with time and patience. There was nothing wrong with the drive train when she parked it; the only issue was, she could no longer find the leaded premium gas it requires.
If you do go with the 350 but later decide to come back to the original motor, the 700R4 has been reported to be an excellent transmission to use with this motor, when combined using an adapter kit. In fact, that was the option I was considering, in preference to the 1985 500SE tranny. The Mercedes 722.3xx trannies, though, have one significant advantage: unlike most auto trannies, if you can make the glow plugs work, you can push-start the car.
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - led-panzer - 09-25-2012
Rudolfs quarter mile was around 15 seconds. Probably would have been faster without the draw from the supercharger, but he would have lost the low end torque
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - JustPassinThru - 09-25-2012
You're probably right; who was it that posted the 11-second quarter? Or am I hallucinating?
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - led-panzer - 09-25-2012
If it was a quarter mile, it was probably one of the Finns. A few guys have posted 10-11 second 1/8th mile times, maybe that's where you saw it. I don't think a 617 could ever do an 11 second quarter, but its fun to try
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - JustPassinThru - 09-25-2012
(09-25-2012, 08:11 AM)led-panzer Rudolfs quarter mile was around 15 seconds. Probably would have been faster without the draw from the supercharger, but he would have lost the low end torque
Since, unlike the stock Garrett which produces no boost at idle, the stock KKK K26 is said to produce 2 psi at idle, does it not logically follow that the K26 would make an excellent choice as the first turbo in a compound-turbo setup, especially if given a larger, modern extended-tip compressor wheel? Might not such a setup be an effective and much less costly alternative to a supercharger-->turbo arrangement such as Rudolf used?
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - dieselsmoke300d - 01-18-2015
Any developments on this since 2012? Another thread maybe? Eventually my W126 OM617 will be tuned. That is when I get the proper funding. I guess for now I'll stick with manual tweaks and a better air filter etc.
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - Volker407 - 01-21-2015
(01-18-2015, 09:01 PM)dieselsmoke300d .... manual tweaks and a better air filter etc.
If you don´t run more than 200-250HP the stock air filter is no restriction.
Gruß
Volker
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - raysorenson - 01-21-2015
(01-18-2015, 09:01 PM)dieselsmoke300d Any developments on this since 2012? Another thread maybe? Eventually my W126 OM617 will be tuned. That is when I get the proper funding. I guess for now I'll stick with manual tweaks and a better air filter etc.
For what it costs just to get the pump worked on your 617, you can buy an '87 126 and enjoy a nice power increase, fuel economy increase and noise decrease.
RE: HOW TO BUILD A HIGH POWER OM617? - MTUPower - 01-22-2015
(01-21-2015, 05:31 PM)Volker407But the rattle which nearly always comes with the failure of the mounts sucks. Plus the stock intake system is quite space consuming.(01-18-2015, 09:01 PM)dieselsmoke300d .... manual tweaks and a better air filter etc.
If you don´t run more than 200-250HP the stock air filter is no restriction.
Gruß
Volker