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+--- Thread: T3/T4 Hybrid (/showthread.php?tid=411)
T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-07-2009
I am toying around with the idea of installing a T3/T4 hybrid on my 1982 300sd. I am looking on ebay at the chinese turbos, I want to do some testing before I pay full price for a real Garret Hybrid. What A/R should I use? I was thinking of making the OEM a hybrid with the new turbo parts or adapting the new turbo to the engine.
I am in the process of trying to squeeze all the power of the this engine. So far I have blocked off the EGR, installed a custom, because I built it - air filter intake. I made an air box that captures air form the stock location ( I will post pics later) and using an AEM dry filter. I took out the "kidneys" resonators and adjusted the waste gate. I am currently getting 11 psi of boost.
Any help will be appreciated. I know it won't bolt up to the intake, an intercooler is on the list too.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - winmutt - 06-08-2009
I love that air dam around the filter. I am going to look into that for my car.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - ForcedInduction - 06-11-2009
I like that air dam, the filter is too small but that setup is still a far sight better than what most people "upgrade" to!
A generic T4 "kit" won't work very well. There are many different types of T4 compressors and they each work very differently (some are made for high flow and some are for high pressure).
I'd suggest a turbo from a 3.5L OM603 (55 trim) or a 60 trim T3 from a Ford 2.3L (Mustang/Thunderbird). Both will support everything the MW pump can push out and will do it more efficiently than a T4.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-11-2009
Thanks for the info. The filter is an AEM Dryflow filter P/N 21-203DK and is rated at 819 CFM.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-21-2009
Here are some pics as to the progress of the project. After many hours of research and calculations I decided to go with a T3/T4 T40E turbo.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - winmutt - 06-22-2009
Wow purty and SHINY. I like SHINY. Whats the deal with the bracket looking thing on the intake where the stock airfilter would be? Do you have a map for that turbo?
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-22-2009
(06-22-2009, 10:57 AM)winmutt Wow purty and SHINY. I like SHINY. Whats the deal with the bracket looking thing on the intake where the stock airfilter would be? Do you have a map for that turbo?
The bracket is where the trubo bolts to on a California model with a cat.
The map is available on the net, I don't have the reference right now. It is pretty much right in the center of the map, the stock turbo is way out of spec and it seems to fall on its face above 3000 rpm
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - ForcedInduction - 06-22-2009
Is the compressor a 40? If it is that would be pretty nice on the map.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-23-2009
It is supposed to be a 50 trim,
According to calculations I need a 2.00 pressure ratio and 30 lbs./ min at 4350 rpm.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - ForcedInduction - 06-23-2009
At sea level.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-23-2009
(06-23-2009, 01:15 AM)ForcedInduction At sea level.
I live in Southern California and pretty much just drive around town, 350' elevation.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - benztek - 06-26-2009
Any updates on this? I want to see how your turbo works out!
P.S. Nice to meet you in person Rolf! Hope the alignment worked out for you!
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 06-26-2009
(06-26-2009, 10:32 AM)benztek Any updates on this? I want to see how your turbo works out!
P.S. Nice to meet you in person Rolf! Hope the alignment worked out for you!
Still fabbing some parts, I am working on fixing the leaky oil return pipe. I plan on using 1" NPT tap to thread the hole and inserting a 1" 37 deg JIC fitting. I will also make a similar sized fitting for the turbo housing. I am hoping to install the weekend of the 4th of July.
I did some junk yard research yesterday and removed the rack limiter from an IP, pretty easy job. I will keep you updated as soon as I can...
Nice to meet you too.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Motorhead - 06-26-2009
That's good looking gear, I need to make an adjustable cam sprocket and see how it tunes the turbo's.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-05-2009
Well I finished the install of my new turbo and have some pics to share. I also fixed the leaky turbo oil return, not mercedes OEM, but how they should have done it!
Before teardown
Before tear down
OEM oil return tube
Oil retrun tube removed
Starting to drill hole for pipe tap
1" NPT pipe tap
A little assistantce to tap hole
Tapped holes
Oil return line from catch can
New return line
Some pics of the completed project...
Exhaust manifold
Intake and exhaust manifolds
Turbo exhaust housing
Turbo exhaust with v-bands installed
T3/T40e installed
Another pick of intercooler
A closer look at intercooler and piping
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Motorhead - 07-05-2009
Looks good, are you going to pop a hole in the hood for that I/C? You said that the Califorina SD had a cat on it, do you know if any 123's had cat's for Califorina?
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Telecommbrkr - 07-05-2009
(07-05-2009, 03:06 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Well I finished the install of my new turbo and have some pics to share. I also fixed the leaky turbo oil return, not mercedes OEM, but how they should have done it!
Agreed! Very nice work. I've been wanting to do that since I bought my first 617, you just can't keep the factory o-ring tube from leaking
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - willbhere4u - 07-05-2009
how well dose it run now??? post some vid's on youtube did you notice a good power improvement? looks very good!!!
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - benztek - 07-06-2009
Looks awesome! Let us know how it runs!
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Motorhead - 07-06-2009
OH, another 617 type of intake I have never put on a bench.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-07-2009
Initially I was disappointed...only 8 pounds of boost
, but then I figured out I didn't set the waste gate correctly. I needed to put some preload on the actuator. I also installed my manual boost controller. I made the boost controller out of 6061-T6 aluminum and used two ball bearings on either side of the spring. It uses a set screw to adjust tension on the spring. I will post a pic when I get some time. I have adjusted the MBC and the boost peaks at 14 psi.
It starts to come on around 2000 and peaks at 4500. At 70 I am at around 4 and when I floor it it comes up to 10 pretty quick. I don't have the low end boost, but there is a compromise. I also have removed the rack limter and eliminated the ALDA, but I may put the ALDA back on since I am not building boost right off the line. I was experiencing some smoke when I would come to a stop, I think oil was making its way past the turbo shaft seals and getting into the exhaust side. Since I turned up the boost I haven't seen it.
I still need to hook up my EGT gauge and boost gauge...I ended up getting VDO in lieu of using my Sunpro boost gauge....
Does anyone want to but my old setup? I just rebuilt the turbo a month ago.
BTW, how much boost can I run?
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - willbhere4u - 07-07-2009
the c111 mercedes race car ran 22psi with no problem and broke many speed records I"v been told no more than 10psi with out an inter cooler though
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Motorhead - 07-07-2009
What is the most boost a 617 has run?
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - ForcedInduction - 07-07-2009
Anything more than 14psi with an MW pump is wasting energy.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Rudolf_Diesel - 07-07-2009
(07-07-2009, 08:35 PM)ForcedInduction Anything more than 14psi with an MW pump is wasting energy.
I am not sure what you mean.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - ForcedInduction - 07-07-2009
The MW pump is capable of flowing enough fuel for about 145hp. 14psi is plenty to support that. Anything more is restricting the exhaust flow (wastegate) and overheating the charge air.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - winmutt - 07-07-2009
(07-07-2009, 07:36 PM)willbhere4u the c111 mercedes race car ran 22psi with no problem and broke many speed records I"v been told no more than 10psi with out an inter cooler though
Hardly without problems. They had many head issues. Stock psi is 11.6. On a t3 anything more than 15psi and its just a heat pump. >20psi with stock valve spring and the valves will lift.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - winmutt - 07-07-2009
(07-07-2009, 07:43 PM)Motorhead What is the most boost a 617 has run?
20s easily. I found my WG hose had rotted off in the 3 months I was withou a boost gauge.
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - willbhere4u - 07-07-2009
does anyone make performance after market valve springs for a 617 turbo??? Or would springs from some other application give any improvement over the stock valve springs?
RE: T3/T4 Hybrid - Motorhead - 07-07-2009
When I pull my spare head apart I will find a better spring, you know with a better intake manifold and a ported head the engine will get more air and probably max out the stock MW pump before 14 PSI.