Dragoncito - Printable Version

Dragoncito - Printable Version

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Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-08-2013

Estimados señores,

Let me first introduce myself.
I am dutch born, have worked over most of europe and 13 years ago moved to an old ´river cottage´ andalucian style in the mountains of the andalucian heartland.
We live a slow-life with priority at existential quality time.

Writer/horse guru (see homocaballus.eu )/ farmer by profession and we have two ´Mercedes´ diesel engined SsangYongs:
The Musso is the family car which I have set up for fuel economy.
The other is a cabrio Korando 2.9 TDi which is both farm work horse and fun project.
The Korando we baptised ´Dragoncito´ wich means Little Dragon. Very apt Since SsangYong translates as TwoDragons.

[Image: Foto-PD3P3NEP.jpg]

It is currently ´Stage 3´

I will put the mod details to the IP on that subforum.

Stage 1. was:
- K&N filter elemnet
- EGR ´blocked´
- Pump mods. phase one.
- snorkel
- pcv catch tank

Stage 2.:
- Air support at the rear
- stiffening front
- 50 mm wider track rear, 10 mm wider front
- air vent in the bonnet behind manifold cross over keeping the under bonnet temp lower

Stage 3.:
- mbc and boost from 0.5 bar to 0.8 bar
- pump timing 7 degrees less retarded
- two mufflers replaced by one 50 cm long 2,5" diameter straight through rvs Simons resonator
- pump mods phase two

Next stage is Butane injection laid out as an N2O system.
This is currently in the headache phase. I have the bits but the engine being idi it is a tricky thing to set up safely.

Thanks for the attention.

RE: Dragoncito - sassparilla_kid - 02-08-2013

Sounds like a pretty sweet project!

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-17-2013

The in car view of my latest mod on Dragoncito; the [Image: noshit.jpg&w=140&h=49]

system:

Stíll fiddling to get at the correct jet size :oops: :roll:

The IDI head is proving to be a bit critical; the orange hot swirl thingamy in the pre chamber is eager to pre ingnite the (butane) gas.

Also I run max gas pressure in order to get it mixed properly when injected but this means that minute changes in jet size give huge difference in flow.

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-19-2013

To establish a ´before´ the NOSHIT I have done half a dozen of electronically timed 1/4 mile sprints yesterday.

The best run was:

16,73 secs.
139,86 km/h.
0 - 100 km/h. 10,18 secs.

Whichever way I translate that into horsepower, it comes around 200 already!!

As a perspective; the 3.2 six cilinder 4 valve petrol engine model had a factory spec of 220 hp and 0 - 100 in 9,8 seconds.

Not bad for an IDI OM602 TD.

RE: Dragoncito - Simpler=Better - 02-19-2013

I like it Smile

The fighter jet switches always get passengers asking questions

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-20-2013

(02-19-2013, 07:26 AM)Simpler=Better I like it

The fighter jet switches always get passengers asking questions

There is a warning sticker on the sunthing:

[Image: funny-bra-warning-sticker-car-motor-cycl...-528-p.jpg]

The system is still presenting me with a serious challenge though.
As I have it set up like a solo nos rail injecting dry butane, the pressure is critical and the idi head does not give slack.

RE: Dragoncito - Simpler=Better - 02-20-2013

Can you put in a pressure regulator?

How about two switches, going to two small jets: One switch for mild flow and two for full power.

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-20-2013

I already have a regulator, but the thing is not that exact and also variating with atmospheric pressure.

I could simply put in a standard lpg reducer/vaporiser but that would spoil the fun effect of binairy power boost. The max. is only some 25 hp at móst and when injected gradually the ´seat of the pants´ will be absent.
The car is already quite fast enough and I only want the fun factor of a boost kick.

The thing is to finding the right pressure to set. As I drive between sea level and 4500 feet, I need to make a choice like set it for say max 3000 feet and not use it above that.

Now combine the above; only 20-25 hp at max and the need to keep a safety margin = you want the pressure to be set a optimally as possible so as not to let a fair chunk of that unused.

RE: Dragoncito - Simpler=Better - 02-20-2013

You could try reducing the tubing diameter that feeds the LPG to the engine-a smaller tube would restrict the flow

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-20-2013

(02-20-2013, 01:35 PM)Simpler=Better You could try reducing the tubing diameter that feeds the LPG to the engine-a smaller tube would restrict the flow

I have a jet in the outlet of the injector solenoid.
Only 30 cm. of 5 mm internal diameter tube from that injector to the two way nozzle in the manifold.

I don´t want to go lower than 3 bar and if that still gives detonation, I will go from 1.0 mm to 0.7 mm jet. No smaller steps available unfortunately.

There must be a foto of the rail parts somewhere on my pc. I will have a look if I can find it.

RE: Dragoncito - Simpler=Better - 02-20-2013

Can you fill the jet in with solder and re drill it smaller? That's how I've made cheapo carburetor jets in the past. Can you get 1/8" lines (~3mm?) Some kind of restriction has to be able to limit your flow

RE: Dragoncito - MFSuper90 - 02-20-2013

Butane injection? Never heard of that one. I've heard of NOS, Methanal, CNG, Water, Propane.
But this is a first for butane.
Why butane? just curious Big Grin

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-21-2013

(02-20-2013, 10:19 PM)MFSuper90 Butane injection? Never heard of that one. I've heard of NOS, Methanal, CNG, Water, Propane.
But this is a first for butane.
Why butane? just curious

Tbh. I don´t understand at all why it is so little known/applied.
I´ve been at it since the early eighties when use of LPG in petrol engined cars was pioneered in the Netherlands.
At the time the LPG very cheap, a third of diesel and seen as an economical solution for professional vehicles like fork lift trucks etc. but for some reason nobody thought about applying the same to cars.

LPG autogas is a mixture of butane and propane. Because propane evaporates and freezes at far lower temps. the LPG has more propane during winter and more butane during summer.

As butane needs fár less pressure to be liquidised, the operating pressure of the bottle can be lower which is safer in the vehicle.

Butane is ideal compatible with diesel.
The gas ignites with a bang and end with a fiz, whereas the diesel ignites with a fiz and ends with a bang.
It has a high enough ´cetane´ number and the diesel/gas mix gives a more complete chemical burn.
If mixed correctly, the gas will not detonate and only ignite when the diesel starts burning.
The nicest thing of it is that you can have extra fuel without swapping the diesel pump for a higher capacity one. You can both have and eat the cake: Run the ideally matched pump for normal use ánd have extra fuel when you want more go.

It is VERY simple to use as true dual fuel by installing the same stuff as for a petrol engine and run 10 to 30% of LPG.
In Oz and the UK there are one or two LPG system specialists that have systems adapted for diesels for sale.
The UK specialist I know has a complete system on offer for 399 pouds sterling only!!!
You can then run the car using less diesel or use the extra fuel for more go.
When done for diesel economy the set up can be on the conservative side and thus be safe. A fellow SsangYong user in OZ has run his workhorse Ute on diesel/LPG for 150K miles before the kit started to wear and he now has a new reducer/vaporiser in to clock some more miles.
It gets tricky if you want the max amount of go as you then need to find the limit at where the gas will detonate.

Over here where I live petrol, diesel, gas are all about the same at the pump so there is no economic argument involved for using gas.
That leaves the power Big Grin

On a direct injected engine the % of gas that can be used it considerably higher. The cr is lower and there is no orange hot pre chamber as in the idi.
On the particular engine I have in my car, the detonation limit is relatively low. For daily use, with safety margins for temp. and altitude, the safe limit is some 15 - 20 hp. only.
As I want it for fun, I want to set it up as close to the limit as I can.

It is a relatively cheap, easy, safe and even legal way to get more power from your standard diesel Exclamation

You can even use it to lower emission levels as the gas burns cleaner Idea

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-21-2013

The rail parts:

[Image: Foto-R3DU6J47.jpg]

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-21-2013

The chemistry:

Add one molecule of butane C4H10 (99% burn) and one molecule of diesel C16H34 (82% burn) = C20H44, which is the same molecular weight as 2x C10H22 Decane (97.5% Burn).
Add excess oxigen and the mixture will burn like Decane.
You see that it burns 15.5% more efficiently than straight diesel.
Mix only 30% and you stíll get 5% extra efficiency.

Think about that....

You don´t just get the extra power from burning the extra butane but álso from burning the diesel more efficiently.

RE: Dragoncito - willbhere4u - 02-21-2013

Interesting I would like to see how this works on a dyno

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-22-2013

Imo the dyno is less usefull than quarter mile numbers but here you are....

Here the effect of LPG at 2.5 bar through a 1 mm. (0.04) jet in the cross over manifold of an OM662 td:

[Image: MussoDynoSheet_resize.jpg]

Source; Qute´s truck on ssangyongownersclubofaustralia.org

The hp result adds up perfectly with the theoretical flow rate and specific consumption of this engine.
This net result does not appear very impressive on the dyno chart but when overtaking or climbing a hill on the road is like shifting down a gear.

RE: Dragoncito - Simpler=Better - 02-22-2013

An instant boost in power is always great even if the chart isn't a straight vertical line Big Grin

RE: Dragoncito - willbhere4u - 02-22-2013

That's pretty impressive on a stock engine?

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 02-22-2013

(02-22-2013, 12:34 PM)willbhere4u That's pretty impressive on a stock engine?

The chart is from an almost stock engine yes. Just a resonator replacing the muffler.

Just advancing the pump would rise the whole graph some more.
The factory spec is literally retarded to curtail NOx emission. No less than 15 degrees after tdc.
Advancing say 7 degrees is 7 degrees effectively longer pushing on the piston! Making roughly 7/180 x 100% more use from the expansion.

On my car the result is a bit less sophisticated and méant to be; more of a step and only at high revs in the high gears.

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 04-10-2013

First to freshen it up, I will start from the inside and take it from there:

[Image: Foto-8O44MKHF.jpg]

It is fed through a 2,5 Bar regulator from a 14 kilo Butane bottle strapped to the roll bar leg in the boot. This is a standard regulator on a common cooking/camping bottle which you can exchange anywhere. The bottle does not need to be installed, so you can leave it at home if you don´t want it in the boot.

The dashbord switch actuates the solenoid on the bottle and primes the system.
The WOT switch the injector solenoid.
The injector has a jet of 2.0 mm. and feeds a two-way nozzle in the crossover manifold. The jet is in the injector outlet in the fuel line and can be changed in 5 minutes.

I have tried several regulators and even an unrestrcted valve but it all gave a wonderfull but bewildering variety of problems.
The first set up had a turbo pressure switch as extra operater safety but that was a pita. Now one simply has to not use it in the first two gears and only floor the last cm. above 3 K rpm.
I am stíll not satisfied as the injector runs too hot, so I have ordered a higher in line resistance with integrated heat sink.

The NOShit is not intended to be anything else but a fun kick in the back and extra top end oompf to enjoy.

RE: Dragoncito - Simpler=Better - 04-10-2013

I like it Smile

An instant 14hp is nice

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 04-10-2013

(04-10-2013, 11:51 AM)Simpler=Better An instant 14hp is nice

It worked out a bit more.
As I have the pump maxed out, the higher burning efficiency has a rather unexpectedly large effect.
In this instance the extra fuel does not only directly gives more energy but the chemical burn makes the diesel burn more efficiently too.
It is probably above 20 hp but that is irrelevant.

Here is a photo of the boot:

[Image: Foto-7X3XXG3N.jpg]

You can work out where the bottle goes ;-)

RE: Dragoncito - Huertecilla - 04-15-2013

The 25 hp ´water bottle´ [Image: icon6.png]

p.s. The red ´cap´ is de open/close turn knob of the unrestricted flow regulator.