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+--- Thread: tomnik elements! (/showthread.php?tid=4461)
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tomnik elements! - sorin_cel - 03-29-2013
tomnik for how much you sell 7mm bosch pump elements? or 7,5mm.
thanks
RE: tomnik elements! - majesty78 - 03-29-2013
Tom is no more active in this forum.
RE: tomnik elements! - Eric78 - 03-29-2013
(03-29-2013, 03:03 PM)majesty78 Tom is no more active in this forum.
Yeah, even disabled all contact links.
RE: tomnik elements! - Austincarnut - 03-29-2013
(03-29-2013, 07:50 PM)Eric78(03-29-2013, 03:03 PM)majesty78 Tom is no more active in this forum.
Yeah, even disabled all contact links.
He's with Elvis...
RE: tomnik elements! - majesty78 - 03-30-2013
(03-29-2013, 10:39 PM)Austincarnut(03-29-2013, 07:50 PM)Eric78(03-29-2013, 03:03 PM)majesty78 Tom is no more active in this forum.
Yeah, even disabled all contact links.
He's with Elvis...
Are you kidding?
RE: tomnik elements! - Volker407 - 03-31-2013
(03-30-2013, 02:48 PM)majesty78(03-29-2013, 10:39 PM)Austincarnut(03-29-2013, 07:50 PM)Eric78 Yeah, even disabled all contact links.
He's with Elvis...
Are you kidding?
I have talked to Tomnik a few days ago. He is fine but very busy.
Gruß
Volker
RE: tomnik elements! - lgreeley83 - 03-31-2013
Bartending on an island for Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Kurt Cobain, Tupac, and Biggie
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 02-06-2015
(03-31-2013, 09:02 AM)Volker407(03-30-2013, 02:48 PM)majesty78(03-29-2013, 10:39 PM)Austincarnut He's with Elvis...
Are you kidding?
I have talked to Tomnik a few days ago. He is fine but very busy.
Gruß
Volker
Great. So for an MW it looks like dieselmeken is the only option? Except no one has actually been able to buy a pump from him. So has everyone pretty much collectively given up on modding MW pumps for the moment?
RE: tomnik elements! - bricktron - 02-06-2015
what happened to that shop in san diego (?) that was trying to bring these to market?
RE: tomnik elements! - sassparilla_kid - 02-07-2015
Dieselmeken is working on MW pump elements and says he'll send some to the shop in SoCal, for now they can only do M pumps though
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 02-07-2015
Ok great. So far no mw pumps and no mw elements and no timeframe. Are we talking a year?
RE: tomnik elements! - Petar - 02-08-2015
You can always get a 7.5mm M pump for your 617, proven setup
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 02-08-2015
Apparently the switxh from mw requires new injection lines. Anyone know where to get them? Or do I bend them myself?
What shop can build the m pump? Ppp diesel? Myna? Other? And do they have an alda?
RE: tomnik elements! - F.R.A.S - 02-08-2015
Dieselmeken can set you up, no problem. He has done a lot of MW pumps.
RE: tomnik elements! - raysorenson - 02-08-2015
Don't you also have to get throttle linkage for the M pump swap? And what if you want to keep cruise control?
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 02-09-2015
(02-08-2015, 02:40 PM)F.R.A.S Dieselmeken can set you up, no problem. He has done a lot of MW pumps.
Ok great. The only one he has posted about had stalling issues, and no one else here seems to have one to report on. So who has bought all these MW pumps? Last time I emailed dieselmeken he was still thinking about putting some more together.
Do you have a jig for an om617 turbo exhaust manifold? Like the one in the oldtimer JTY thread. I emailed kkd but they do not have a jig for the one they built for jty.
RE: tomnik elements! - Petar - 02-09-2015
That was forced's pump, not built by a shop that has done anything similar.
Here's a dieselmeken superpump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHnADr70w8
OM617 with 7.5mm m pumps are all over the internet.
I think but i am not 100% sure is that for the M you only have to change a part of the linkage, most of it stays in place.
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 02-09-2015
Watching youtube videos and putting one on your car are two different things. Its great if you have someone close who can show you how to mount an m pump but that is not the case for me. I would take an mw pump if I can get one, but so far i think the only mw pump goran has posted about went onto a gwagen in norway and had some issues. At least according to his facebook. I dont know anything about forced's pump.
RE: tomnik elements! - led-panzer - 02-09-2015
Atypicalguy, the people here are trying to help and answering your questions, there's no need to be so abrasive. Nobody owes you anything.
There are no "kits" for these cars, you can't just buy a ton of "bolt on" parts and make your 617 go fast, practically everything has to be made/figured out/fabricated by you.
Dieselmeken (or myna, or ppd, or herlevi) M-pumps are proven, and they work great. I know, I have one.
If you want to "go fast" bad enough, you'll figure it out. If not, you're at the mercy of Goran's busy schedule. He said several times that the MW pump project is just that, a side project.
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 02-09-2015
I am only trying to differentiate fact from fiction. Right now an mw pump from goran is fiction. Im sure he is capable and seems to be farther along in the project than anyone else at the moment. But nobody has one. If someone did, I would love to hear from them about it. But so far statements like "dieselmeken has done several mw pumps" appear to be false, unless they are keepibg them all to themselves.
So we go from bolting the mw pump on and timing/tuning it to rebuilding throttle linkages and fuel lines and ??? I can handle the former. I dont know exactly what is involved in the m pump job and I dont plan to have the car apart for weeks figuring this out. I think it is reasonable to try to figure out from guys like you who have done it what the job looks like and specifically what it requires. This is basic project planning. It is also important for financial planning the acquisition of all the required items. Its great that you have one. Like me, Raysorenson appears to also not know precisely what is involved in retrofitting one to an mw pump car. It would be great to see a writeup. I have only started to look into it as people have been talking about mw superpumps as a reality when in fact anyone serious about doing this really needs to be thinking m.
RE: tomnik elements! - raysorenson - 02-09-2015
Correct. No MW elements available that are worth having.
Personally, I'll wait for an MW element indefinitely. I can live with stockish power. If an element comes out and I still have a 617 powered vehicle, yipee.
RE: tomnik elements! - barrote - 02-09-2015
(02-09-2015, 05:44 PM)atypicalguy I am only trying to differentiate fact from fiction. Right now an mw pump from goran is fiction. Im sure he is capable and seems to be farther along in the project than anyone else at the moment. But nobody has one. If someone did, I would love to hear from them about it. But so far statements like "dieselmeken has done several mw pumps" appear to be false, unless they are keepibg them all to themselves.hehehe , changing a 61X engine to a m pump is basic tunning , BASIC TUNING, hehe there are lots of stock engines LOTS with that pump, that was what people was trying to say!!!
So we go from bolting the mw pump on and timing/tuning it to rebuilding throttle linkages and fuel lines and ??? I can handle the former. I dont know exactly what is involved in the m pump job and I dont plan to have the car apart for weeks figuring this out. I think it is reasonable to try to figure out from guys like you who have done it what the job looks like and specifically what it requires. This is basic project planning. It is also important for financial planning the acquisition of all the required items. Its great that you have one. Like me, Raysorenson appears to also not know precisely what is involved in retrofitting one to an mw pump car. It would be great to see a writeup. I have only started to look into it as people have been talking about mw superpumps as a reality when in fact anyone serious about doing this really needs to be thinking m.
Yep i do now understand why the throtle linkage is a major problema
RE: tomnik elements! - Volker407 - 02-10-2015
Just for informal purposes, Tomniks´ 6,5mm MW elements are sold out right now but there is something cooking....
If you are willing to wait a few months he will make some more MW elements.
Gruß
Volker
RE: tomnik elements! - raysorenson - 02-10-2015
Great. I didn't want to come out and ask you on the board. This is good news.
The cost of going to a modded M pump on an MW OM617 is just stupid. It's a $250 USD motor.
RE: tomnik elements! - Simpler=Better - 02-10-2015
I know it's expensive, but think of it like this:
Buying an old big block from a truck ($250)
-Buying fancy ass intake (200)
-Fancy headers(200)
-Fancy carb (200)
-Fancy ignition (200)
-Fancy cam (200+)
Gotta pay to play?
RE: tomnik elements! - raysorenson - 02-10-2015
I understand that line of reasoning. I certainly pay and play my fair share.
In my head, the cost of obtaining and modding and M pump for a 617 puts me in 603 swap territory.
RE: tomnik elements! - F.R.A.S - 02-10-2015
(02-09-2015, 02:50 AM)atypicalguy(02-08-2015, 02:40 PM)F.R.A.S Dieselmeken can set you up, no problem. He has done a lot of MW pumps.
Ok great. The only one he has posted about had stalling issues, and no one else here seems to have one to report on. So who has bought all these MW pumps? Last time I emailed dieselmeken he was still thinking about putting some more together.
Do you have a jig for an om617 turbo exhaust manifold? Like the one in the oldtimer JTY thread. I emailed kkd but they do not have a jig for the one they built for jty.
We don't do jig
eveverything we do is unique and hand built to customer spec. Sure we can build an exhaust manifold for the om617. Just send me a message and we take it from there.
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 03-09-2015
(02-09-2015, 07:56 PM)barrote hehehe , changing a 61X engine to a m pump is basic tunning , BASIC TUNING, hehe there are lots of stock engines LOTS with that pump, that was what people was trying to say!!!Thanks for that information; it is good to know.
Yep i do now understand why the throtle linkage is a major problema
When you have no m pump motor to look at, nothing is basic. I have never seen a motor with that pump. I need to buy the parts I need online somehow, then pull the pump off and get it running again in an afternoon.
led-panzer, the whole "if you want to go fast bad enough you will figure it out" routine is sort of lame. First, I don't want to go fast. Nothing about a 123 wagon is fast. Second, only a fool would spend 2k on a pump from sweden or finland without trying to understand what is involved in getting it running on a car. Third, well, I'll let you know when it's on the car.
RE: tomnik elements! - F.R.A.S - 03-09-2015
Why not get a tuned MW pump from Sweden? Then it's a direct swap. Why the hell go M pump on a MW-engine?
RE: tomnik elements! - led-panzer - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 05:05 AM)atypicalguy(02-09-2015, 07:56 PM)barrote hehehe , changing a 61X engine to a m pump is basic tunning , BASIC TUNING, hehe there are lots of stock engines LOTS with that pump, that was what people was trying to say!!!Thanks for that information; it is good to know.
Yep i do now understand why the throtle linkage is a major problema
When you have no m pump motor to look at, nothing is basic. I have never seen a motor with that pump. I need to buy the parts I need online somehow, then pull the pump off and get it running again in an afternoon.
led-panzer, the whole "if you want to go fast bad enough you will figure it out" routine is sort of lame. First, I don't want to go fast. Nothing about a 123 wagon is fast. Second, only a fool would spend 2k on a pump from sweden or finland without trying to understand what is involved in getting it running on a car. Third, well, I'll let you know when it's on the car.
An M pump on a 617 is an easy swap. You need the pump and lines, and they both bolt onto the engine. The fuel supply and return bolt on. Block the oil supply for the MW pump with a bolt. Done there.
Really the only thing that you have to come up with is a throttle linkage. For someone planning to swap a Holset turbo onto a 617, you can't figure out how to adjust linkages? As barrote said, it's basic tuning.
If the only way you can swap a modified pump is if it's an MW, then you'll have to wait patiently. That was my point.
Lame or not, this is a superturbo forum. If you're not here to "go fast" then why are you here?
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 03-09-2015
I can weld well enough and plumb oil supply and return lines and bolt manifolds on. The turbo exhaust plate im making should bolt to the existing flex pipe.
Pump linkage Adjustment is not a problem, but peopke say I need a new one. Having never seen pump in question I have trouble visualizing the job. If the linkage is something I can get from another car, I will do that. If it involves fabbing some stuff up with trial and error and ordering rod ends from mcmaster, then a pump switch will take longer than a weekend and I need to plan to be without the car. Im slow. What can I say. Maybe I need to google which cars came with m pump and try to find one locally.
I was planning to fab the exhaust manifold but will get a price ftom fras.
My motor needs some work. I am just using the opportunity to upgrade a few things...like maybe the rods and head gasket and turbo and manifolds and pump. Anybody oversize their valves besides jty?
If I wanted to "go fast" I would get another car.
RE: tomnik elements! - barrote - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 06:32 AM) pid=\71227' An M pump on a 617 is an easy swap. You need the pump and lines, and they both bolt onto the engine. The fuel supply and return bolt on. Block the oil supply for the MW pump with a bolt. Done there.hy led panzer ,
just a small coment ,
and about the timing advance device and oil suply to M , will it work out well???
RE: tomnik elements! - led-panzer - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 02:58 PM)barrote(03-09-2015, 06:32 AM)pid=\71227 An M pump on a 617 is an easy swap. You need the pump and lines, and they both bolt onto the engine. The fuel supply and return bolt on. Block the oil supply for the MW pump with a bolt. Done there.hy led panzer ,
just a small coment ,
and about the timing advance device and oil suply to M , will it work out well???
Hi.
Sure it works fine. The M pump gets its lubrication oil through the camshaft, even in turbo 617s.
Every time I had to take the pump off it was full of oil.
Maybe replace the words "go fast" with "modify the engine/transmission/chassis beyond the limits of stock components for power"
RE: tomnik elements! - barrote - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 03:15 PM)led-panzer Hi.
Sure it works fine. The M pump gets its lubrication oil through the camshaft, even in turbo 617s.
Every time I had to take the pump off it was full of oil.
yep , thats true, to be precise oil is fed through the cam interior and is released in the front needle bearing and propagates from there by splash.
what i´m not sure is if all 617´s use the timing device with the oil fed possibility. thats why i comented. actually is something that worth knowing.
dont u agree?regards.
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
The other day dieselmeken posted a video on FB with a bunch of finished MW pumps. Heres one on the bench, definitely looks like he's got them sorted out.
http://youtu.be/hvNn2fPMexg
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 03-09-2015
That pump has 10mm elements. Until you see it on a motor you have no idea how it will perform.
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 05:38 PM)atypicalguy That pump has 10mm elements. Until you see it on a motor you have no idea how it will perform.
What pump has 10mm elements?
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 05:38 PM)atypicalguy That pump has 10mm elements. Until you see it on a motor you have no idea how it will perform.
Oops, you are correct. If you look you'll see he's got a bunch of them done with either 7.5mm or 8mm ready for a new home. Ill try to find the link.
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
![[Image: Screenshot_2015-03-09-17-11-01_zpso8itc8mc.png]](http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll192/xl617lx/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-03-09-17-11-01_zpso8itc8mc.png)
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
![[Image: Screenshot_2015-03-09-17-11-43_zps6m4sm2fk.png]](http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll192/xl617lx/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-03-09-17-11-43_zps6m4sm2fk.png)
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
I couldn't find the link but these screenshots should do it.
8mm MW ready for you.
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
P.s. I will trade my soul and my first born son for one of dieselmeken's 8mm MW pumps if anyone is interested?
RE: tomnik elements! - led-panzer - 03-09-2015
There's not a singe MW pump in those pictures, they're all M pumps
Although he made reference to one, Ill give you that
105cc, enough for ~230hp, sounds good
(my M-pump is 160cc, ~360hp)
RE: tomnik elements! - xl.617.lx - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 07:24 PM)led-panzer There's not a singe MW pump in those pictures, they're all M pumps
Although he made reference to one, Ill give you that
105cc, enough for ~230hp, sounds good
(my M-pump is 160cc, ~360hp)
Hey Led, when you mounted your w115 intake what did you do with the stock oil feed for the turbo? Mine hits the intake and its off by about 3/4 of an inch.
Also is your car up and running with the M pump, id love to see some pics/videos.
RE: tomnik elements! - led-panzer - 03-10-2015
I had a custom line made at a hyraulic shop.
My pump is in transit from Sweden, keep an eye on my build thread
RE: tomnik elements! - atypicalguy - 03-10-2015
I assume your new pump is an M?
So despite all my whining, Goran is building the 8mm MW now. He Shipped one to US today; maybe yours?
Karl
85 300tdt
14 treg tdi
05 g55
RE: tomnik elements! - Joystick - 03-10-2015
Can someone please explain me the difference betweeen an m and a mw pump??
RE: tomnik elements! - led-panzer - 03-10-2015
(03-10-2015, 02:07 PM)atypicalguy I assume your new pump is an M?
So despite all my whining, Goran is building the 8mm MW now. He Shipped one to US today; maybe yours?
Karl
85 300tdt
14 treg tdi
05 g55
He did ship mine today, though mine is an M pump.
The MW pump is found on all turbo and non-turbo 617's sold in the US. The M pump was stock on all non-turbos sold in Europe. So either you buy one in Europe, or find one that made its way into the U.S. in a grey market car.
Goran makes 7.5 and 8.0mm elements for the M pump, and until very recently the M pump was the only pump for a 617 that could be modified with larger elements.
RE: tomnik elements! - Petar - 03-10-2015
(03-10-2015, 02:24 PM)Joystick Can someone please explain me the difference betweeen an m and a mw pump??
This is the M pump
![[Image: 301921d1271110071-what-mb-diesels-did-m-...10-075.jpg]](http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/301921d1271110071-what-mb-diesels-did-m-pump-mb-parts-032410-075.jpg)
![[Image: 84848d1284749138-m-pump-add-appendage-pict0531.jpg]](http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-performance-tuning/84848d1284749138-m-pump-add-appendage-pict0531.jpg)
This is the MW pump (ignore the markings
)![[Image: 471868d1349483902-1982-240d-injector-pum...p-2sep.jpg]](http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/w123-e-ce-d-cd-td/471868d1349483902-1982-240d-injector-pump-leaking-fuel-fuel-injection-pump-2sep.jpg)
![[Image: 96272d1317493165-papas-got-brand-new-om6...ew-ip1.jpg]](http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/96272d1317493165-papas-got-brand-new-om617-ip-play-om617-new-ip1.jpg)
They have prety much nothing in common except for being inline diesel injection pumps. 0 common parts.
The MW is used on all 617 turbo engines and also in US market 616/617 non turbos.
The M is used on euro 616/617's and all later 60X engines although the later pumps are a bit different physically so AFAIK they don't fit on 617's.
M pumps have a relatively developed tuning market. Up to 250cc, 7000 rpm and probably more is possible from an 8mm M pump.
Excellent driveability from smaller pumps also 7.5mm 140cc runs just like stock except much more fuel. 8 mm lopes just a bit on low idle on most pumps but is a perfomance beast.
RE: tomnik elements! - Joystick - 03-10-2015
So what type pump is a om606 turbo pump? And wich type is a 606 non turbo pump?