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+--- Thread: 'nother '87 300D (/showthread.php?tid=4872)
'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 09-03-2013
So, I figgered it's about time I started a build thread for my "new" car. Here are a couple of pics from the day I bought it:
The Front:
The Rear:
The Heinous Burgundy Interior:
fortunately I think this is the only pic I have of this interior. I have since swapped all but the passenger front door panel over to grey with wood trim (which has been covered with carbon fiber vinyl)...more pics to come
400E Rear Subframe:
Subframe Comparison; '87 300D (Rusty) vs. '93 400E (aluminum painted):
As mentioned in other posts, the rear cover/plate for the 190E/D transmissions is too small to accept the larger output yoke used by the 300D (w124). So I had to shave off quite a bit of material to make it work...since the front section of a w126 560SE driveshaft is the perfect length to fit with the 190E/D 5-speed swap and retains the larger 110mm Bolt Circle Diameter (BCD).
Here are some pics of the material I removed:
Note the bearing hole where I got a little over-zealous...that ended up being a bigger pain to repair...
And here are a couple of the JB-Weld fill used to seal it back up:
At any rate, this is just a temporary solution, I will have a spare rear cover/plate TIG welded for a proper "permanent" fix...but I have no concerns about how well this rigged job will hold up...at least for the next hundred thousand or so...
And a couple of pics of the stereo upgrade in progress:
And a couple of the crossmember and trans mount (filled with 80A durometer polyurethane):
part number close-up:
And the poly-filled mount:
RE: 'nother '87 300D - raysorenson - 09-04-2013
Are those x-overs above the tank? FYI, you can fit 6.75" in the front doors without one of those pod things. I'll post up some pics here soon in case you can use some ideas.
Also, if you've got some grey plastic that's yellowing, SEM Color Coat in medium grey is a very good match. Lots of grey plastic was discolored in my '87.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - tjts1 - 09-04-2013
I like the 400e subframe. Not so sure about the output housing modification. I hope it holds.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - garage - 09-05-2013
What kind of mods are needed to make the 400E subframe work?
Its not just bolt in right??
RE: 'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 09-07-2013
(09-04-2013, 11:49 AM)raysorenson Are those x-overs above the tank? FYI, you can fit 6.75" in the front doors without one of those pod things. I'll post up some pics here soon in case you can use some ideas.
Also, if you've got some grey plastic that's yellowing, SEM Color Coat in medium grey is a very good match. Lots of grey plastic was discolored in my '87.
yep, them 'er x-overs. I ordered a set of components for the front and I think they are indeed 6.75".
thanks for the tip on the color. I just bought some stuff(dont remember what brand) to change the blue color grilles I got for my grey wagon rear door handles (used to accept the 4" mid-ranges for my rear components). but it may even be that same color. I just picked the one that looked closest to what I remembered the color to look like.its just for the grilles anyway so it shouldnt matter as much.
(09-04-2013, 01:43 PM)tjts1 I like the 400e subframe. Not so sure about the output housing modification. I hope it holds.
yeah, its temporary...but if youve seen some of the stuff Ive used JB-weld on (think high pressure AND high torsional load), you wouldnt worry about it either... Ive seen it fail, but generally only when the prep wasnt done right or it wasnt allowed to cure properly.
(09-05-2013, 01:56 PM)garage What kind of mods are needed to make the 400E subframe work?
Its not just bolt in right??
bolts right in...BUT it does move the diff about an inch or so forward (185 and 210mm alike). You also must use a 210mm diff (1.3L case I think) with the diff cover that came with the subframe, at least if you wanna have all stock parts/mounts. I ended up making an adapter plate to attach the stock 185mm diff get me going until I pulled the late 300e one.
The parts I would use, were I to do it (among the other mods) again are:
-400/500E subframe/diff cover
-late 300E 2.65:1 diff with the input/flex disc already installed on it (i.e. just use the smaller diameter flex disc / giubo vs swap out for the larger stock 300D one)
-late 300e rear shaft section, should be just about perfect length to make up for the using the 400E subframe -- custom flex disc
-w126 560 sel front driveshaft section with revshift e46 flex disc / giubo
-w201 190D 5-speed, modified as above, or find a smaller flex disc front half d-shaft of the proper length (either 33" or 35", don't remember which, its in a thread I posted to RE: w201 5 speed swap into w124) and another custom flex disc
RE: 'nother '87 300D - garage - 09-08-2013
Awesome!! Thanks, definitely want to attempt to this, along with a 5speed swap someday soon!
Great post with lots of info!
RE: 'nother '87 300D - raysorenson - 09-09-2013
I did some "overporting" once on a 2 stroke Vespa. You could see air between the cylinder and case. While not structural, JB weld has held up great for a long time with no leaks.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 10-27-2013
The auto parts fairy paid a visit while I was out to sea last week...
RevShift e46 giubo...got 2 of 'em to send with my dshaft to send to the shop.
Bushing OD...A little smaller than stock M-B, but should work...
Bushing ID, about right for 12mm M-B bolts...
Bushing Length
Spacer Thickness
And something else that I've been trying to figure out for a while...
Pillow Ball Mount/Camber Adjusters
Bottom
Side
I didnt get them here, got em from a dude on MBWorld(I think), but this is where they came from originally:
ebay.uk search: MERCEDES 124 190 201 Front Pillow ball Top Mount CAMBER PLATES COILOVER STANDARD
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCEDES-124-190-201-Front-Pillow-ball-Top-Mount-CAMBER-PLATES-COILOVER-STANDARD-/180885901096?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1da3cf28&vxp=mtr
RE: 'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 12-11-2013
Just got some action from Santa...
Custom shaft back from South Bay Driveline in San Jose, CA:
Closeup of Chevy U-joint:
Long section of shaft:
Short half of shaft:
The owner, Steve is pretty awesome, we talked about the diffrent options but I decided to swap out the center joint with a chevy setup (gotta call him back to verify actiual application before I post it here) for replaceable u-joint due to the splines on my donor being shot...he can also modify a good splined section for early Ford style/size u-joint. I am also curious to see how the E46 giubos from RevShift work out for the large pattern (110mm) flex discs...
RE: 'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 12-28-2013
So the e46 aluminum flex discs didnt work out so well... killer vibration which must be due to the spacer/reducer bushings having an OD of 2mm less than the stock M-B ones. So I installed the new shaft with some extra stocker discs I had lying around. I tried to machine some spacers on my lathe, but my skills arent up to par yet... so Im looking for 18mm OD bushings with 12mm bore about 35mm long.
Anyone have any ideas? I am also going to call revshift (already emailed them) on Monday to see if they can make me a set.
I'd also ike to shave about 1/8" from both faces of the disc to bring them closer to stock size.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - raysorenson - 12-28-2013
Are you using the w124 or w201 trans and pinion flanges?
RE: 'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 12-29-2013
(12-28-2013, 02:41 PM)raysorenson Are you using the w124 or w201 trans and pinion flanges?
I'm using the 110mm BCD pattern output flange as indicated above. It is the same as the stock w124 300D 722 trans output flange, but I got it from a donor 560SEL 722 trans.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - raysorenson - 12-29-2013
Just making sure because it was my assumption that you had seen my posts regarding my correspondence with revshift discussing whether or not any of their existing discs would fit the W124. When you said the M3 discs looked like a fit, I also assumed you knew something I didn't. I'd rather not open my mouth at every opportunity to repeat myself, but it looks like I should have done so in this case.
After sending them a drawing with comprehensive and precise measurements, I was told that the '05-06 GTO flex discs were an exact match. If you'd like, I can forward my correspondence with revshift, complete with .pdf's so you can verify my measurements. PM me with your email address if you're interested.
With luck, the GTO rebuild kit will fit into your BMW flex disc.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - cardude - 12-18-2014
I'm ready to give the 400E subframe a try!
I've sent you a PM.
cardude
RE: 'nother '87 300D - SurfRodder - 01-04-2015
Please do send/post that correspondence... It will likely help someone...my issue now is the driveshaft builder had problems I assume due to the OD of the bushings being too small on he e30 setup and not centering the bolt holes correctly. Caused massive vibes. While I was able to get the discs installed with those giubos, it is obvious the driveshaft maker didn't account for the 1/8" or so difference in thickness between stock and those aluminum revshift ones. Hopefully I can turn mine down on the lathe if the Goat bushings do press in. That would be awesome if it that is the case as I would face cut about 1/16 off each side of the disc and then trim bushings and inserts to match. I really would like to be rid of the stock rubber flex discs.
(12-29-2013, 11:29 AM)raysorenson Just making sure because it was my assumption that you had seen my posts regarding my correspondence with revshift discussing whether or not any of their existing discs would fit the W124. When you said the M3 discs looked like a fit, I also assumed you knew something I didn't. I'd rather not open my mouth at every opportunity to repeat myself, but it looks like I should have done so in this case.
After sending them a drawing with comprehensive and precise measurements, I was told that the '05-06 GTO flex discs were an exact match. If you'd like, I can forward my correspondence with revshift, complete with .pdf's so you can verify my measurements. PM me with your email address if you're interested.
With luck, the GTO rebuild kit will fit into your BMW flex disc.
RE: 'nother '87 300D - atypicalguy - 09-16-2019
(12-29-2013, 11:29 AM)raysorenson Just making sure because it was my assumption that you had seen my posts regarding my correspondence with revshift discussing whether or not any of their existing discs would fit the W124. When you said the M3 discs looked like a fit, I also assumed you knew something I didn't. I'd rather not open my mouth at every opportunity to repeat myself, but it looks like I should have done so in this case.
After sending them a drawing with comprehensive and precise measurements, I was told that the '05-06 GTO flex discs were an exact match. If you'd like, I can forward my correspondence with revshift, complete with .pdf's so you can verify my measurements. PM me with your email address if you're interested.
With luck, the GTO rebuild kit will fit into your BMW flex disc.
OK there seem to be a few options for the early w124 cars. They all had small diameter flex discs and limited clearance at the transmission mount, so it is not as simple as bolting in the 8-hole V8 guibos and a v8 driveshaft. Options are:
1. buy an '05 GTO flex disc for the front, and the stock driveshaft. Supposedly per surfrodder this fits the stock transmission output spider. I guess this should also work in the rear location, but anyone upgrading to a 210mm 500SL diff or equivalent will need to pull the spider off the old differential and install it on the new one to match the old driveshaft. This seems a bit silly for high HP, as the center bearing on the old driveshaft is smaller than the V8 version, but whatever. I also wonder if those small diameter GTO flex discs will hold up, even though a GTO had a lot of torque and power and was pretty high performance.
2. Use gwagen output flanges and a gwagen driveshaft, altered to suit the car; not sure where to get a part number for the gwagen driveshaft but I'm sure the part number is available somewhere.
3. Use the spicer yokes front and back with either a single piece driveshaft (seems like it would interfere with exhaust in the tunnel) or a custom one like SurfRodder showed above, with the stock center bearing mount. Supposedly the v8 center bearing mount will fit into the early cars.
4. Swap to a 722.6 transmission, which must have more clearance at the transmission mount than the early w124 722.3 does. Then a v8 driveshaft and stock 8 hole guibos front and back.