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+--- Thread: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? (/showthread.php?tid=4903)
OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-16-2013
I'm in the very early daydreaming / planning stages of a project where I'd like to be able to couple an OM606 to a Doug Nash 5-speed manual transmission.
I've done some research on adapter plates, but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for. That doesn't mean that what I'm looking for doesn't exist, maybe I just haven't found it yet.
There are commercially available OM617 to GM adapters on the market, but are there "bolt in" solutions for an OM60x to GM manual transmission solutions readily available?
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - waz - 09-16-2013
This place http://www.transmissionadapters.com/
Has this line on their home page.
(9) This is a big one!! The Mercedes 6 cylinder diesel to common Chev V8 auto and manual trans is done! This kit also fits some of the newer Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel engines! (Sprinter engine?)
Can't seem to find any other info about it or pricing on the site. I guess you'd need to call them.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-16-2013
Thank you. I just sent them an email.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-16-2013
Here is the response that I got. In the future, I will take every opportunity to advise buyers to avoid this company. It seems that their attitude towards a potential customer leaves a lot to be desired.
I simply inquired to make sure that the adapter they are trying to sell is for the OM60x series of engines , as opposed to the OM61x series. Their website doesn't specify. After an initial email inquiry, Here is their response"
"You asked if we have an adapter for the OM60X family of engines. I answered "We have an adapter for those engines.................................................." .
Was I unclear? Or perhaps you think you are the only one that knows the difference between the different style of Mercedes diesel engines. We know the difference and we have adapter kits for each type."
If this is how they treat potential customers, I don't want anything to do with them.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - waz - 09-17-2013
Didn't see that coming. I only read that they made an adapter.
Glad I don't need anything from them.
Sorry I even mentioned it. Better to find out before spending any money though.
I hope you have better luck somewhere else.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-17-2013
If I could come up with a mechanical drawing of the MB transmission bolt pattern and shaft centerline, I think I could make/have one made for less than the $925 asking price.
So far, no luck on finding such a drawing. I know I could use an existing transmission and a transfer punch to capture the hole locations. The input shaft centerline would be more challenging.
Finding a properly dimensioned drawing would be preferable, however. That information could go right into the CNC mill, laser table, or water jet.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Mark_M - 09-18-2013
You could cut and shut two bellhousings. Front of a Merc bell and the rear for the box you want and weld it all together. There are a few pictures of it being done on this forum.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-18-2013
I have seen a couple of those cut-and weld transformations. They certainly look well done (mating a BMW 6-speed to an MB bellhousing).
I'd be very interested to know how the folks who have done this kind of cut-and-weld operation know where the centerline of the crank and input shafts are located.
That seems to be the key to the whole operation - knowing where the centerlines are in relation to the bolt patterns.
The requirements of the sanctioning body for land speed racing make it a bit more difficult. One of the rules for land speed racing is that there must be a clutch/flywheel cover, which must be a minimum of 1/4" thick steel. This is normally achieved through the use of something like a Lakewood (or equivalent) scattershield, which is fabbed from 1/4" thick steel. These are readily available for patterns like Ford and Chevy blocks, but not for Mercedes blocks.
The OEM cast aluminum bellhousings like Mercedes or BMW do not meet the safety requirements for SCTA. It is possible to fab a 1/4" thick steel shroud which would go around the OEM aluminum bellhousing, but that might be a bigger PITA than fabbing the adapter plate to use the steel scattershield.
I think I'll contact Lakewood to see if there's a chance that they could make a scattershield with the MB block bolt pattern. It's a longshot, but there's always a chance that they could have a drawing like that.
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - tjts1 - 09-18-2013
The Ssangyong Musso had an OM602 with a BW T5 transmission from the factory. Try to get your hands on that bell housing.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-18-2013
WOW - that's very interesting news. That's the first time I've heard of any Mercedes engine linked to an "American" transmission direct from the factory.
Thank you!
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - tjts1 - 09-18-2013
Heres an example.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/96-Ssangyong-Musso-2-9-GEARBOX-diesel-/320740627813
It looks like a bog standard T5 (sitting on its side) with a bell housing to attach to the back of a 2.9L OM662 (Korean built version of the OM602). It should bolt up to any of the W124/W201 inline engines. I have no idea where to buy just the bell housing but its out there.
EDIT: Another shot of a 4x4 T5 mounted to the back of a non turbo OM662.
![[Image: used_rebuilt_Hyundai_Kia_Ssangyong_engines.jpg]](http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/115576567/used_rebuilt_Hyundai_Kia_Ssangyong_engines.jpg)
http://paul128.fm.alibaba.com/product/115576567-0/used_rebuilt_Hyundai_Kia_Ssangyong_engines.html
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-18-2013
I contacted Lakewood today, to see if they can provide a bellhousing/scattershield to directly adapt the MB block pattern to a Doug Nash type manual trans.
They think it's possible, for about $1,000, and 8 weeks of time.
That number is less than the cost of the transmissionadapters piece, and a separate Lakewood GM housing/scattershield.
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-18-2013
(09-16-2013, 09:39 AM)Jetmugg I'm in the very early daydreaming / planning stages of a project where I'd like to be able to couple an OM606 to a Doug Nash 5-speed manual transmission.
I've done some research on adapter plates, but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for. That doesn't mean that what I'm looking for doesn't exist, maybe I just haven't found it yet.
There are commercially available OM617 to GM adapters on the market, but are there "bolt in" solutions for an OM60x to GM manual transmission solutions readily available?
Steve.
I am doing a 98-99 606 to a GM adapter. I made an aluminum plate for the block to the bellhousing. I had a crank adapter and flywheel made by Wilcap in Calif.
I am doing another conversion in a 4runner, I can get the crank adapter and flywheel made locally for $500.00. On this conversion you have to use the stock 606 flywheel and starter and space the standard flywheel without a ring gear behind it.
I also contacted transmissionadapters.com about the 606 adapter, they sent me a picture of it and the price was $795.00. The owner does have an attitude, but was okay with me. There adapter is for an automatic only due to the flywheel issue. I have done a lot of research on this and there is no one making an adapter for a standard transmission.
FYI the dodge sprinter engine bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as the 606 and they have a standard transmission available.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Mark_M - 09-18-2013
The trans being tilted is actually fairly stock in US applications. The mustang is exactly like that and it causes us on this side of the pond no end of trouble because the stick is tilted away from us in right hand drive mode.
I know exactly what your after with the scattershield/bellhousing. A steel scattershield isn't that hard to make since its easy to weld with just about anything, that said adapting the rear of one to fit the block pattern will be pretty easy as well. Trace the front of a Merc bell or rear of the block and get it cut out to what you need. Does it actually have to be attached to the box or could you 1/4 plate part of the trans tunnel? I guess that would be a heavier option if it were allowed.
When I did a couple of adapted bellhousings a few years ago I flipped the engine on its nose and assembled the box onto it vertically to get the alignment right and simply welded it up.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-18-2013
Zeeman - I am very encouraged by your posting. I think I could get the crank adapter made locally as well. It looks like you had a flywheel made with no ring gear, then shrunk on a ring gear at the correct location, right?
If possible, I'd rather use a GM type flywheel, for the availability of heavy duty clutches and pressure plates.
transadapters told me $925 for the same thing he told you $795 for. Their website says $725.
Can you share how the block to bellhousing plate was done? It seems to me that the key to the whole operation is matching the crank centerline to the input shaft centerline. Did you have a mechanical drawing, or very careful measurements, etc? Like I said, this is quite encouraging. I manage a manufacturing plant with a pretty decent machine shop. If I had the correct dimensions, I could make the same kind of plate and then use an off-the-shelf scattershield.
We (my racing partner and I), really want to be able to use this Doug Nash transmission for its durability and ease of changing gear ratios. That's the reason for wanting to adapt to a GM-type trans. This thing can take some abuse and power - probably more than an OEM Mercedes piece.
The weight of a fabricated scattershield isn't an issue, it's more of a hassle with the fitment into the trans tunnel. A hydroformed piece like a Lakewood will be a better fit than anything I could make.
Mark M - how did you align the input shaft and the crank centerline when welding the two transmissions together?
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Mark_M - 09-18-2013
I built the whole lot up vertically complete with clutch and in the ones I did centre bearing. It has no choice but to be in line.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-18-2013
(09-18-2013, 05:51 PM)Jetmugg Zeeman - I am very encouraged by your posting. I think I could get the crank adapter made locally as well. It looks like you had a flywheel made with no ring gear, then shrunk on a ring gear at the correct location, right?
If possible, I'd rather use a GM type flywheel, for the availability of heavy duty clutches and pressure plates.
transadapters told me $925 for the same thing he told you $795 for. Their website says $725.
Can you share how the block to bellhousing plate was done? It seems to me that the key to the whole operation is matching the crank centerline to the input shaft centerline. Did you have a mechanical drawing, or very careful measurements, etc? Like I said, this is quite encouraging. I manage a manufacturing plant with a pretty decent machine shop. If I had the correct dimensions, I could make the same kind of plate and then use an off-the-shelf scattershield.
We (my racing partner and I), really want to be able to use this Doug Nash transmission for its durability and ease of changing gear ratios. That's the reason for wanting to adapt to a GM-type trans. This thing can take some abuse and power - probably more than an OEM Mercedes piece.
The weight of a fabricated scattershield isn't an issue, it's more of a hassle with the fitment into the trans tunnel. A hydroformed piece like a Lakewood will be a better fit than anything I could make.
Mark M - how did you align the input shaft and the crank centerline when welding the two transmissions together?
The standard flywheel does not have a ring gear, it sets behind the stock 606 flexplate that starts the engine. It is drilled for a GM clutch.
I dial indicated the bellhousing on the 3/8" adapter plate to the crankshaft by rotating it. I then marked the holes and drilled and tapped them. I reinstalled the bellhousing to the adapter plate and redialed it in to zero runnout and marked the guide pin holes. This was originally made for a Covette ZF 6spd. in a Street Rod. (see pics). Also more pics on www.northwestdieseloffroad.com
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-19-2013
You guys are doing some very nice work, and presenting a lot of food for thought.
I just visited with the chief machinist at work, brainstorming how to get a usable, repeatable set of dimensions for the bolt pattern and centerline.
We do not have a CMM, but we do have a rather large horizontal CNC mill. He thinks we can mount a block and crank on the bed of the mill, and use a probe to sweep in all the bolt holes and the crank. Then, we have a set of CNC friendly dimensions for making adapter plate(s) at a much lower cost than the numbers that have been quoted.
I'm excited about the possibilities here. I need to get my hands on an OM60x engine block and crank, and start taking measurements.
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-19-2013
(09-19-2013, 11:20 AM)Jetmugg You guys are doing some very nice work, and presenting a lot of food for thought.
I just visited with the chief machinist at work, brainstorming how to get a usable, repeatable set of dimensions for the bolt pattern and centerline.
We do not have a CMM, but we do have a rather large horizontal CNC mill. He thinks we can mount a block and crank on the bed of the mill, and use a probe to sweep in all the bolt holes and the crank. Then, we have a set of CNC friendly dimensions for making adapter plate(s) at a much lower cost than the numbers that have been quoted.
I'm excited about the possibilities here. I need to get my hands on an OM60x engine block and crank, and start taking measurements.
Steve.
Steve
One thing I found out was with a 3/8" plate the Mercedes starter snout touches the GM bellhousing guide pin hole boss on the drivers side. Going to a thicker plate to space the bellhousing back futher or modifying the ear on the bellhousing would take care of this. Were are you located?
Ron
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-19-2013
I'm in Missouri. With any luck, I'll be traveling close to your neck of the woods (Bonneville Salt Flats) in 2 weeks.
I was thinking in terms of something thicker than 3/8", possibly up to an inch, but that's just what's in my mind right now. If there's a "magic thickness" that works best in terms of starter clearance and spacing of the flywheel relative to the transmission, then that seems like the preferred thickness.
I need to spend some time thinking about how to work out the flywheel / flexplate positioning. You basically "sandwiched" the two together, correct? (MB in front, GM behind). If it's possible to get a GM type flywheel that hasn't been drilled for a bolt pattern, would it work to drill the GM flywheel for the MB crank pattern, and bolt right through the whole stack, into the crank?
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-19-2013
(09-19-2013, 03:01 PM)Jetmugg I'm in Missouri. With any luck, I'll be traveling close to your neck of the woods (Bonneville Salt Flats) in 2 weeks.
I was thinking in terms of something thicker than 3/8", possibly up to an inch, but that's just what's in my mind right now. If there's a "magic thickness" that works best in terms of starter clearance and spacing of the flywheel relative to the transmission, then that seems like the preferred thickness.
I need to spend some time thinking about how to work out the flywheel / flexplate positioning. You basically "sandwiched" the two together, correct? (MB in front, GM behind). If it's possible to get a GM type flywheel that hasn't been drilled for a bolt pattern, would it work to drill the GM flywheel for the MB crank pattern, and bolt right through the whole stack, into the crank?
Yes they are sandwiched together as you state.
My problem is the thickness is an issue, in the 4runner conversions I have very little space to deal with, so the adapter plate has to as thin as possible.
I have checked and no flywheel manufacturer has blank flywheels and they only talk large quantities. I started this 6 years ago and imported my engine from England because I could not find 98-99 606 engines over here at that time.
The problem with the GM flywheel, you can't interface the 6 bolt pattern to the 8 bolt 606 pattern, that is why the 617 adapter works because they have 12 bolts adapted to the GM 6 bolt pattern.
That is how I ended up with Wilcap he was only game in time that would make a custom flywheel.
Ron
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-20-2013
OK, thanks for the additional information, Zeeman. I'm learning new things every day. I wonder if there are any other common flywheels (Ford, Chrysler, etc. , that might be more friendly with the MB crank bolt pattern).
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-20-2013
(09-20-2013, 01:42 PM)Jetmugg OK, thanks for the additional information, Zeeman. I'm learning new things every day. I wonder if there are any other common flywheels (Ford, Chrysler, etc. , that might be more friendly with the MB crank bolt pattern).
Steve.
Mopar, 426 and 440 are 8 bolt. As well as Mustang DOHC 4.6 late V-8.
Ron
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-20-2013
Thanks for doing all the homework, Zeeman. Do you think any of those 8-bolt options would work well on an adapter?
Steve.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-20-2013
(09-20-2013, 07:28 PM)Jetmugg Thanks for doing all the homework, Zeeman. Do you think any of those 8-bolt options would work well on an adapter?
Steve.
I am looking at the Mustang 4.6 DOHC flywheel on E-bay. #350441190903 it is an 8 bolt. It takes a 10 1/2"or 11" clutch. I am just not keen on redrilling a flywheel, or two sets of bolt holes. I think having a flywheel made with the correct pattern and bolting the whole thing together with the original crankshaft bolt pattern is the way to go. Especially if you pulling some HP. I can get the flywheel I use made for $275.00 not including the adapter. By the time you get another flywheel and have it redrilled you almost at the same cost.
Zeeman
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Jetmugg - 09-22-2013
I agree that having a flywheel with matching bolt pattern, then bolting & pinning the whole thing together is the preferred option.
Is that an aluminum flywheel you are using, or steel? If aluminum, does it have a separate, iron or steel insert for the friction area.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - zeeman - 09-22-2013
(09-22-2013, 07:57 PM)Jetmugg I agree that having a flywheel with matching bolt pattern, then bolting & pinning the whole thing together is the preferred option.
Is that an aluminum flywheel you are using, or steel? If aluminum, does it have a separate, iron or steel insert for the friction area.
It is a steel flywheel.
RE: OM60x to GM Manual Trans adapter? - Simpler=Better - 09-24-2014
FYI the one-piece rear many chevy 5.7L flywheels can be easily redrilled for a 617 pattern-I'm assuming the 603 would be similar(I can measure tonight if I remember). 14" flywheel with the trucks (needs big bellhousing) or 12.75" flywheel with the cars (camaro, firebird, etc.) can use the smaller bell.-also a 16lb car flywheel floating around.
The dimensions for a 60X bell bolt pattern are in the sticky, as are the GM. Pretty easy to draw it up, then fit a starter.