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+--- Thread: Starting with propane/other fuels? (/showthread.php?tid=4942)
Starting with propane/other fuels? - sassparilla_kid - 09-25-2013
As the end of summer is upon us, I've noticed a trend lately with my car. It seems that it doesn't enjoy starting very well after sitting overnight, or in temperatures below about 70*F. Now, the car starts, it just misses quite a bit for anywhere from 10-30 seconds after startup. I know all of my glow plugs are good, and injectors are freshly rebuilt with new nozzles from Greazzer, so I know its not those, valves adjusted maybe 5-6k miles ago, so I'm guessing my problem is some type of combination of injection timing being too advanced and maybe compression a little bit (although there is little to no blowby so I mostly suspect the former). I'm thinking my injection timing might be a little too far advanced and that the fuel is having enough time to maybe condense on the sides of the pre-chambers and that's what's causing it to shake until it gets warm enough to not do this. I will say this, once the car is warmed up for a minute or two it runs like a champ, and I'm currently getting pretty decent mileage (29.5mpg highway, 24.5-26.5 mixed city/highway depending on how I drive) so I don't really want to change the injection timing or anything of that nature.
This leads me to my idea or maybe using small amounts of propane or something else to aid with starting. I would probably only run it for about the first 30 seconds or so until the the prechambers have had enough time to warm up enough to keep fuel from condensing on the sides
This is all just speculation and whatnot, so feel free to point out anything else I may be missing or whatever
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - waz - 09-25-2013
Silly question: Have you tried two or more cycles of the glow plugs to see if that might help it idle smoother on a cold start?
Might not be best for glow plug life long term but, could be worth trying.
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - larsalan - 09-25-2013
I've had similar behavior in much colder weather. I feel like fuel supply. Including the IP and filters behave differently with different ambient temperature.
Also, that timing is a good descriptor of the situation too. Insomuch that fuel atomization, cetane rating and injection timing all play a part in the burn.
So, once the motor is warm and all the working bits under the hood start to get more at the regular operating temperature you see more normal behavior.
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - sassparilla_kid - 09-25-2013
Yeah I just have my plugs hooked up to a switch in the cab, I generally glow them for about ten seconds before starting in the morning, so I guess I'll try upping the dose substantially and see if that helps
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - Tito - 09-25-2013
I think that might be your problem.
If your glowlight goes off in about 5 sec, the glowplugs actually keep glowing for 30seconds or something. This is for smooth idle in cold weather.
If you didn't start the engine in those 30sec the pre-chambers have heated up enough to maintain a smooth idle.
Try using the switch while the engine just fired up. See what happens. Holding the switch for about 10sec before startup is fine. In the winter I usually wait a few extra seconds before starting after the glowlight goes out. Sometimes even till i hear the relay pop and the power to the glowplugs is off.
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - MFSuper90 - 09-26-2013
I was thinking the same thing Tito, good to hear from someone that knows
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - willbhere4u - 09-26-2013
The newer 350sdl's will run the plugs for a full minuet after start up below 40*
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - Simpler=Better - 09-26-2013
Check your glowplugs sun.
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - sassparilla_kid - 09-27-2013
I just replaced all of them less than a year ago with Bosch, and in the summer they don't even get used
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - Simpler=Better - 09-27-2013
Ah well, if you can't fix it right then fix it so it runs. Hook up a hose form a propane torch and see what happens(I don't condone it but I'd love to watch)
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - MFSuper90 - 09-28-2013
Ether works too. Just don't use your glow plugs and ether at the same time
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - CRD4x4 - 09-28-2013
Methanol burns quite nicely. Maybe a rich water/meth injection for startup + 60 seconds will smooth out the idle while she warms up.
Sure, it'll cool down the intake air but it should still improve the engines efficiency and create an environment within the cylinders that is more apt to firing.
Whatever method you choose, please capture it on video. We could all learn a lot from you're experimentation.
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - MFSuper90 - 09-28-2013
Block heater? Then you have nice warm air rather quick in th winter also
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - 1911diesel - 09-28-2013
+1 for that thats y the factory put it there
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - DiseaselWeasel - 09-28-2013
Cure the sickness, not the symptoms FFS
What does "new glow plugs" or "new parts" in general mean nowadays!? Sweet fcuk all...
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - CRD4x4 - 10-01-2013
Here's an ether-fueled cold start (-50f) system for large Diesel engines:
http://www.koldban.com/KBi_DIESELMATIC_s/9.htm
And here are some components of the system for sale for $50
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/pts/4073305655.html
(NO Affiliation with maker or seller)
I've experienced being stranded a few time because of extreme cold temps and no plug within 200 feet of my blockheater. I wish I had a plan B like this installed back then.
(09-28-2013, 07:32 AM)MFSuper90 Ether works too. Just don't use your glow plugs and ether at the same time
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - solitaire2020 - 08-30-2020
Ether has always worked the Best
RE: Starting with propane/other fuels? - AlanMcR - 08-30-2020
I've gotten my 606 to start after an overnight at -15C. Winter diesel, two rounds of glowing and then hold the starter. Fired pretty quickly I thought. Wouldn't move for another minute or so.
A pan of coals under the engine works, if things are really bad.