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+--- Thread: building a turbo (/showthread.php?tid=5089)
building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-14-2013
How easy is this? I want a t3/t4 hybrid but don't really feel like buying a whole new turbo since I already have a spare t3 in the garage. Can I just get a t4 compressor housing and swap it on with the correct compressor wheel? I like the t4 because they're supposed to flow a lot of air (according to other people around the intarweb)
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 11-14-2013
What are the specs on a "t3/t4"? What turbos would you combine?
RE: building a turbo - EDH_Performance - 11-14-2013
ideal the turbine should be a mm or two bigger than the compressor to get the max out of compressor
RE: building a turbo - Simpler=Better - 11-14-2013
If everything clears it's a matter of swapping parts, and sending it out for balancing.
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 11-14-2013
Probably have get the exhaust housing machine to fit the new turbine wheel.
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-14-2013
Hmm, I might have to research this further when I'm in front of a computer
RE: building a turbo - DirtDiesel - 11-14-2013
very interested to see how it goes
RE: building a turbo - mike-81-240d - 11-15-2013
Why not just keep surfing craigslist? I found a turbonetics T3/T4 60 A/R for $250 locally. I think I'm going the HX30 route instead though. My factory garrett is kaput. Too much high boost. (17psi steady, spike to 20psi while shifting)
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-15-2013
I'll probably keep surfing craigslist until I settle on something
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-28-2013
Okay now I'm thinking of going HX30, who has one and how does it perform? How is spool up time compared to a stock Garrett?
My reason being is that a cheapo one can be had new for like $320 with free shipping on fleabay. And I'm tired of deliberating on this and need more air so I have an excuse to build sooopaaaahhhhhpuuuuuuuuummmmmppppppp
RE: building a turbo - Simpler=Better - 11-28-2013
An HX30 is huge-when we put one on the tractor it turned 5psi at redline, the garrett hit 12psi.
But with a big pump you could probably get enough juice flowing to spin it up faster.
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-29-2013
MFSuper90 has one on his car, from what I've read in his thread it seems to work pretty well, and I don't think he even has a superpump
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 11-29-2013
It spools slightly slower than stock, but not even enough to tell a difference really. My hx30 is only slightly larger than stock, inducer wise only about 1mm, but the exducer is what helps the map so much. Exhaust is bigger, but I didn't measure it to know for sure.
I'm still running stock pump, just turned up with no Alda. The turbo has an MWE groove, makes it sound awesome
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-29-2013
Is that one of those turbos I see with the little holes in the front of it?
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 11-30-2013
Not necessarily hole, but they have a ring around the comp wheel, then a space, then where the intake would clamp on. If you google MWE groove it'll pop up. Pretty cool how they work.
RE: building a turbo - hooblah - 11-30-2013
So whats the difference between mwe groove and the holes drilled in the compressor housing? Theyre both for anti surge, right?
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 11-30-2013
I did a little research, the ported shrouds have an MWE groove, and the holes in the comp housing provide the air to the MWE groove, instead of being open like most others
The achieve "anti surge" by making the compressor map wider, thus moving the surge line. They don't completely do away with surge, but it can help. And they whistle like crazy and sound awesome
If your looking for an hx30 make sure you pay attention to the exhaust housing size, 7cm is the biggest I would consider for a stock pump 617. I have a 6cm on mine and that's what I would recommend for decent spool.
An he221 would be the bees knees for a 617, with a 5or 6cm housing. The only thing is you have to adapt it for a t2 or t25 (can't remember which)
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 11-30-2013
Adapters are no problem, I can get stuff cut with a water jet for essentially free. And if I'm nice to one of my professors I can probably use the machine shop at school. Or I could use the machine tools at work lol
RE: building a turbo - hooblah - 11-30-2013
After doing a bit of digging, it seems like ported housings are the old way of doing it, i.e. a shroud within a shroud. Like this:
![[Image: dc7cf6c4.jpg]](http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae338/hashbrown_75/dc7cf6c4.jpg)
The new way of doing it is to use a bell mouth and drill holes through it down to the mwe groove.
Like this:
![[Image: 70a-rcoverJPG.jpg]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/fantasyperformance/70a-rcoverJPG.jpg)
Not sure why this is, is someone able to clear it up?
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 11-30-2013
I don't know if that's the "new" way or not, but I think it's just another way to do it. Because BW, Holset, even precision still make the ported shroud type
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 12-01-2013
I think I'll probably end up going HX30, I guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for one, probably 6mm with that fancy groove because I want to hear it spoooooool, because my t3 doesn't make much/any noise
RE: building a turbo - MFSuper90 - 12-01-2013
Or keep an eye out for an he221, they are very similar to a hx30 but outflow them by a couple lbs. plus you can get one with a little smaller housing. I'd probably rather have a 221 than a 30 on mine. But hey, It works
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 03-12-2014
Okay so next question, what to do about oil supply/drain for hx30? I doubt the stock stuff bolts up? I'm tired of the Garrett, time to go bigger, and I get paid next week. Also, can't turn up the pump until I get more boost, and I have a leaky oil filter housing gasket and figured that would be the perfect time to adjust the pump a little since I don't want to pull it a bunch of times
RE: building a turbo - shadowmaker - 03-12-2014
(11-30-2013, 06:14 PM)hooblah The new way of doing it is to use a bell mouth and drill holes through it down to the mwe groove.
Not sure why this is, is someone able to clear it up?
To make it look pretty -> charge more money.
You can google SMWE (=Super Map Width Enhancement).
Ported shroud housing takes efficiency out of compressor (as it bleeds air) and it should not be used because of looks or sound...
RE: building a turbo - Turbo - 03-12-2014
shadow can you please extend your explanation of
-"Ported shroud housing takes efficiency out of compressor (as it bleeds air) and it should not be used because of looks or sound...
"[/quote]
RE: building a turbo - willbhere4u - 03-12-2014
I always thought the ported shroud was to lessen surge?
RE: building a turbo - shadowmaker - 03-12-2014
(03-12-2014, 06:23 AM)Turbo shadow can you please extend your explanation of[/quote]
-"Ported shroud housing takes efficiency out of compressor (as it bleeds air) and it should not be used because of looks or sound...
If you don't have surge problem, why use anti-surge housing and loose compressor efficiency (which means higher IAT/EMP)?
If you have a surge problem, then it might be reasonable.
Although for serious builds I'd do it electronically controlled.The difference between anti-surge and non-anti-surge housing can be related to ancient and modern turbo design. It can be that big.
RE: building a turbo - Alcaid - 03-12-2014
Shadowmaker is right (as always
)Recirculating some of the air means compressing it more than once, this lowers the overall compressor efficiency. On some turbos like low trim, big compressors, not very noticeable (Holset HX35/40 and so on still have an amazing high compressor efficiency with these ports) while the best example for how bad it can be is the HE221W with very poor compressor efficiency but a very wide map for its compressor wheel size. The bigger the port or slots (the more air being recirculated) the lower the compressor efficiency will be.
If you have no surge issues without it, no need to add it if it isn't there already.
RE: building a turbo - Turbo - 03-12-2014
I can agree in some extent but I would be careful in making it a statement.
It is so dependent what you want to accomplish. simply I can not understand why the manufacture of turbos no not elaborate more with the swirls extent in the inlet for lower the aerodynamic load on blade in the compressor when surge is an issue, of course it would be more expensive. and buy using advance vane diffuser more aggressive outlet blade angles would be interesting so more the behaviour that pressure ratio can increase with flow and not becoming a limitation what do you think about that shadow
(03-12-2014, 02:29 PM)Alcaid Shadowmaker is right (as always
Recirculating some of the air means compressing it more than once, this lowers the overall compressor efficiency. On some turbos like low trim, big compressors, not very noticeable (Holset HX35/40 and so on still have an amazing high compressor efficiency with these ports) while the best example for how bad it can be is the HE221W with very poor compressor efficiency but a very wide map for its compressor wheel size. The bigger the port or slots (the more air being recirculated) the lower the compressor efficiency will be.
If you have no surge issues without it, no need to add it if it isn't there already.
RE: building a turbo - DirtDiesel - 03-12-2014
does the hx30 come with a divided housing??? just curious is all
RE: building a turbo - sassparilla_kid - 03-12-2014
I've seen them on eBay with them yeah
RE: building a turbo - Alcaid - 03-13-2014
(03-12-2014, 04:26 PM)DirtDiesel does the hx30 come with a divided housing??? just curious is all
Yep, 12cm^2
RE: building a turbo - shadowmaker - 03-14-2014
(03-12-2014, 03:51 PM)Turbo ...what do you think about that shadow
Of course there are experimental and race oriented turbos out there that aren't currently available for the masses. I have held turbo and ex-mani out of a WRC-Peugeot in my hand and with the prices they were quoted I'm sure they have very little in common with the turbos that can be bought from turbo shops. I bet new F1 turbos are utilizing things that we can only read from scientific studies plus then there is stuff that isn't even public yet.
Maybe 10-20 years time we are able to buy these currently state-of-the-art turbos, but meanwhile we need to either choose the best combination available or maybe even try to machine some cool things to those with public knowledge from turbo research. Our OM606 have used some of these findings already...
RE: building a turbo - CRD4x4 - 03-14-2014
Can you share some findings with us?
Competition drives innovation. Let us praise your innovations!
"Of course there are experimental and race oriented turbos out there that aren't currently available for the masses.
Our OM606 have used some of these findings already..."
RE: building a turbo - Duncansport - 03-14-2014
(03-14-2014, 10:32 AM)CRD4x4 Can you share some findings with us?
Competition drives innovation. Let us praise your innovations!
"Of course there are experimental and race oriented turbos out there that aren't currently available for the masses.
Our OM606 have used some of these findings already..."
I really think the BorgWarner EFR 7064 would be a great match. It's internal waste gate and aerodynamics make it very attractive in my opinion. But is does cost 2K :-(
RE: building a turbo - winmutt - 03-19-2014
(03-12-2014, 04:26 PM)DirtDiesel does the hx30 come with a divided housing??? just curious is all
I've had one with and without.