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+--- Thread: white smoke (/showthread.php?tid=5094)
white smoke - barrote - 11-18-2013
hello fine people,
any guess?
605 engine starts very well, after start runs on 4 cylinder for a while at least till hot , i mean very hot, white smoke from exaust, a lot of white smoke, even after hot. low oil pressure after hot sometimes slight below one bar. coolant temp on highway goes above 100ºC , haven´t seen how far it goes i think it will climb 110ºC, very important , a lot of nailing noise, even after hot. power good , not as it was but still good.
anyone got the same simptoms, i would apreciate some guesses before rip the engine appart.
regards
FD
RE: white smoke - stripy - 11-18-2013
id guess head gasket is blown!
nailing noise can come from the valve lifters. when they dont get oil/pressure.
you could try a compresion tester. maybe that can give som answers!
RE: white smoke - bricktron - 11-18-2013
another possibility (no idea how likely) is incomplete injection due to dirty injectors and/or mistimed injection. luckily, both of those can be tried without tearing off the head. boa sorte.
RE: white smoke - barrote - 11-19-2013
yep , something is, and very strange indeed, how often does a oil pump fail in this engines? anyone know a case?
regards.
bricktron, Qatar!!!
RE: white smoke - hansendk - 11-19-2013
well I learnt a long time ago
white = water
blue = oil
black = fuel
so I vote for head gasket and the is nothing wrong with your oil pump, the oil is water cooled so hot water means even hotter oil = low pressure
if it was me I would take the exhaust manifold of and look in to the valves find the clean cylinder there is your problem
its also possible to take the glow plugs and look at them it might also be possible to see on the injectors
again look for the 1 that stands out.
RE: white smoke - barrote - 11-19-2013
thanks for your guess.
white smoke can tell more about the combustion temp/press than water leaking inside. well the nailing is related to valve lifters, im positive on that. i might have exaust valves burned and seating wrong , or they just dont seat well due valve lifters beeing working wrong. that leaves the low oil pressure and eng temp to sort about.
i will remove the injectors for setup and cleaning. i will look at the exaust valves as well.
thanks.
RE: white smoke - Mark_M - 11-19-2013
compression test will tell you if it is a head gasket or valves in seconds without taking everything apart. You could also do a sniffer test on the coolant that will tell you about the head gasket but not the valves.
RE: white smoke - barrote - 11-19-2013
which compression test , and how it is done. can i use injector well for test, runing the engine on starter or at low idle? how much pressure should i search for?
thanks
RE: white smoke - Mark_M - 11-19-2013
I use a tester I made myself from a pressure gauge and a hollowed out glow plug. From that you will realise that it is the glow plug hole that you test from and not the injector. You can buy a tester although it has to be a diesel one. Petrol ones don't go high enough. Borrowing one might be an option as well?
ultimate pressure doesn't really matter but what does matter is that they are all nearly the same. Any low cylinders have a problem.
You only test while cranking, don't start the engine.
RE: white smoke - barrote - 11-19-2013
u´re right , i´ve seen what merc tell´s to be the be the specs. new btw 29/35 bar , weared engine below 18 , max btw cyl below 3 BAR.
i´m not able to remove glow plugs, it got to be through injector well.
by the way , u know how much they ask for a wrench to remove pre chambers around there?
thanks
RE: white smoke - hansendk - 11-19-2013
dont try to remove the prechambers without removing the glow plugs first that will cut the tip of the glow plug and you have to buy new ones
RE: white smoke - barrote - 01-22-2014
hello fine people,
find the source of my problema, low compression on cyl #2 about 10 bar, the others about 14bar. so the white smoke is unburned fuel due lack of temperature and pressure. the high temp on the engine is related to radiator problems, clean it up and dropped to slightly above normal. used acid/water 50/50 to clean it.
Diagnosis: valves are not sitting well and sealing properly, need to check them.
Now i still have a problem, how can i figuer out how much pressure is going through piston rings? since i´m about to open the engine how do i know if is needed to change the rings?. Does any one know a test for leaking rings, onestly i dont understand MB leak test.
By the way , get your injectors to 150BAR and u will love the sound and response.
regards
RE: white smoke - Mark_M - 01-22-2014
The standard test is to put oil down the bore and compression test again. If the compression comes up its rings/bore if it doesn't it's valves. There is of course still an option for a scored bore but we won't talk about that. Be careful with the amount of oil you put in with it being a diesel. There isn't a huge amount of room in there.
RE: white smoke - Tito - 01-22-2014
I would not pour oil in the bore... You could end up with a small runaway engine...
On petrol car's you use 10cc oil to check the rings. Maybe you can use some other not combustible thick fluid to check (I'm thinking of something but can't come up with anything).
(11-19-2013, 06:47 AM)hansendk well I learnt a long time ago
white = water
blue = oil
black = fuel
White smoke can also be fuel and oil. Think about bad glow-plug's smoking white (unburned fuel) and broken turbo seals.
RE: white smoke - winmutt - 01-22-2014
White smoke + sweet smell == HG. Does it smell sweet?
RE: white smoke - barrote - 01-22-2014
thanks Mark_M , that is the tip i needed. u have any idea of how much blow by can i expect in 300k km engine before going to the rings.
anyway got to go the valves so i can inspect cyl Wall after.
regards
RE: white smoke - Mark_M - 01-22-2014
(01-22-2014, 01:07 PM)Tito I would not pour oil in the bore... You could end up with a small runaway engine...
On petrol car's you use 10cc oil to check the rings. Maybe you can use some other not combustible thick fluid to check (I'm thinking of something but can't come up with anything).
(11-19-2013, 06:47 AM)hansendk well I learnt a long time ago
white = water
blue = oil
black = fuel
White smoke can also be fuel and oil. Think about bad glow-plug's smoking white (unburned fuel) and broken turbo seals.
Engine oil will be fine, its thick and sitting on the piston, not atomised like fuel is. Plus the other plugs are out and fuel shut off so nothing is going to ignite never mind run away. If your really concerned though, yes you could use something else non combustible.
It could also be a head gasket thinking about it if fluid down the bore doesn't improve anything.
RE: white smoke - barrote - 04-13-2014
hello fine people,
found out what was the cause of the white smoke, engine wear, premature engine wear. disassembled the engine and found 2 causes for premature damage,
1- soot in valves, valve seats showed wear and unseating well, expecially exaust ones.
2- ring wear, along with cylinder , cylinders were still in measure with MB repair manual.
Cause of this situation, 100k km using a mix of vegetabe oil , diesel , jet a , engine oil , hyd fluid, and so on , the combustion of this fuel resulted in debris thik like glue wich stick at valves and inside piston ring grooves , witch after deposit harded like cement and forced the rings outwards wich resulted in ring wear. wear measured at the rings was like 5/7 mm less in perimeter comparing to the new rings, wich is a lot.
At the moment cylinders are repaired, new rings installed, cylinder head will be ported, well if one can do a better job than MB already did, GT2256V, IP at 57ml (100 stokes)for this installed a set of 6mm elements from an electronic pump in M series, prechambers holes will be reopened 10% more.
in the future and if needed, valve coils , springs will be switched to a harder version along with the hyd tappets changed to regular(fix) tappets .
BTW inlet camshaft will be from a N/A, wich has a bit more lift, wich should not be of most importance.
well in the end lets see what we can achieve with it.
regards to all diesel enthusiasts