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+--- Thread: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo (/showthread.php?tid=5182)
Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 12-18-2013
Soooo, finally i found some time to start my project tread!!
Have been searching for some time now for parts and a nice car to build my own volvo-killer
Sold my old w114 coupediesel and bought a beautiful w123 1983 tdt. No rust, only alot of dings and dents.
Will not build to race, only street.
Bought a used (offcourse
) om606.962 from Germany cheap. Under 300000km on it.Bought a used 140cc Dieselmeken pump and manifold + hx40
For drivetrain i´m thinking gs6-53dz......
And BOOM
Made a jig at the old mercbox ánd then made a sleeve to go in the jig to fit on the bmw trans. Worked fine. It séems to fit.
Hade alot of pictures of all machining and stuff but my computer crashed a couple of days ago and they all dissapered
Custom flywheel, singelmass. Kevlar clutch and bmw m5 pressureplate.
Will fit 12 mm fuellines and use a 044 copy fuelpump running to a progessiv fuelpressureregualtor. 1 Bar at no boost and 3 bar a full boost.
Still trying to locate a 500e lsd diff. Thinking of using a bmw 524td lsd diff but that will be my last solution when the orignal rear end checks out.
Will buy new 126 frontbrakes with new disks.
Questions to sort out:
Motormounts? I will be using the orignal hydraulic for low noice and vibration. The left mount is angeled in the w210 in about 45 degres?? Is this for eliminating shockabsorbers sideways? How will it affect the vibrations if i mount them straight?
more will come!!
Thanks
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - muuris - 12-18-2013
123 + 606
Some thoughts based on my experiences.. For 140cc injection pump you should be ok even with stock lines and stock mechanical lift pump. I don't think 044 is good for diesel fuel, as it has very different viscosity than that of petrol. At least the huge pressure makes no sense, as the injection pump doesn't need any input pressure, only that there is constant flow big enough. With 12mm lines 0,2bar would be enough. The pressure shouldn't do harm, but will the pump supply enough to maintain that?
If you're going to drive on winter also, that will become a problem. I had 10mm lines and Holley 170gph pump (with 1bar integrated pressure regulator) which I found was ok when you remove the prefilter screen, it used to make a blockage on frosty conditions. I measured it gave ~450 litres per hour with ~0,7bar pressure at the fuel filter (the regulator is at the pump, the difference becomes of line and filter losses). That is twice of what 044 is rated for.. and I bet stock lift pump flow is close to that of the 044..
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 12-19-2013
(12-18-2013, 11:18 PM)muuris 123 + 606
Some thoughts based on my experiences.. For 140cc injection pump you should be ok even with stock lines and stock mechanical lift pump. I don't think 044 is good for diesel fuel, as it has very different viscosity than that of petrol. At least the huge pressure makes no sense, as the injection pump doesn't need any input pressure, only that there is constant flow big enough. With 12mm lines 0,2bar would be enough. The pressure shouldn't do harm, but will the pump supply enough to maintain that?
If you're going to drive on winter also, that will become a problem. I had 10mm lines and Holley 170gph pump (with 1bar integrated pressure regulator) which I found was ok when you remove the prefilter screen, it used to make a blockage on frosty conditions. I measured it gave ~450 litres per hour with ~0,7bar pressure at the fuel filter (the regulator is at the pump, the difference becomes of line and filter losses). That is twice of what 044 is rated for.. and I bet stock lift pump flow is close to that of the 044..
Thanks for the input!
The pressures are the specs that goran dieselmeken gave me.
I most likely will uppgrade to 220cc so i will build for this so its ok in the future!
What inlet screenfilter? The one in fueltank?
Most norweigens drive with 044copys with succes. I would use hollye but they dont deliver enough pressure.
Might have to reconcider my fuelsystem based on your info. Any other sugestions on fuelpump?
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - muuris - 12-19-2013
(12-19-2013, 04:15 AM)john Thanks for the input!
The pressures are the specs that goran dieselmeken gave me.
I most likely will uppgrade to 220cc so i will build for this so its ok in the future!
What inlet screenfilter? The one in fueltank?
Most norweigens drive with 044copys with succes. I would use hollye but they dont deliver enough pressure.
Might have to reconcider my fuelsystem based on your info. Any other sugestions on fuelpump?
I mean the inlet screen filter of the Holley. It, too, is designed for petrol, so the tiny screen holes are too small for diesel's viscosity in cold.
I can't figure why would you need big pressure in fuel system? M-inline pump doesn't control timing advance as does VE. The pressure and returning fuel flow are determined by return banjo bolt of the pump, I see no point altering that. If 170gph Holley can only push 450litr/h @ 0,7bar on stock system and you get 3bar with 220litr/h 044, then the flow is much, much less than that of the Holley's. I measured the 450 litres, it's not a guess. Before upgrading to big fuel lines, I only got ~220litres with same pressure.
I know that one 170gph Holley can support at least 550hp and two 700hp. Don't know how much would one support if pushed to the limit. Of course with better flowing filter than stock.
My current OM605 + 170cc pump is running with 7mm lines and stock mechanical lift pump. Now with 130cc fueling the stock lift pump can hold positive pressure between filter and pump inlet, although I have enlarged filter ports and bigger inlet banjo. Next I'll upgrade to 10mm lines and see how far I can get with mechanical lifter.
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - bonden_85 - 12-19-2013
I'm currently running this pump to feed my 220cc Mynä-pump:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/pad-a4spbd003/overview/
Comes with 1/2" fuel line and filters.
Seems to do the job...
//Johan
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 12-19-2013
(12-19-2013, 11:17 AM)bonden_85 I'm currently running this pump to feed my 220cc Mynä-pump:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/pad-a4spbd003/overview/
Comes with 1/2" fuel line and filters.
Seems to do the job...
//Johan
De rike lever sitt
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - bonden_85 - 12-20-2013
(12-19-2013, 01:43 PM)john(12-19-2013, 11:17 AM)bonden_85 I'm currently running this pump to feed my 220cc Mynä-pump:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/pad-a4spbd003/overview/
Comes with 1/2" fuel line and filters.
Seems to do the job...
//Johan
De rike lever sitt
Äh, dollarn e billig nu!
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 12-29-2013
Some progress!
The motor is in. Its tight to get that big gs6 zf tranny all the way up in the transtunnel. I will try to use a ram to give it more space!
Forgot to take pic. will try to do that tomorrow
Also reconsidered my fuelsystem and will not be doing 12mm lines. I think i will put another set of 8 mm on there and use doubel return and doubel feeding lines and maybe go with dual 044 when i get a bigger pump!
Goran Dieselmeken said 3 bar under boost i will give the pump 3 bars under boost!
Found some issues to
I am missing the bolt to my pumpgear.I think its a left hand tread or something. Anyone has a partnumber or knows were to get one? Does mercedes has one? is it with rackdamper as om617 had?
What the heck is this??
Do i need it and what does it do?
tried to put my pump in! Big issue. I think im missing my TDC mark on my block. Or maybe the turbo 606 with a electrical pump dont have it?
anyway its hard for my to set my pump correct witout it and it will be impossibel to strobe it. Could make my own but i cant see the piston throu the injectorhole, i need to remove the prechamber AND the stupid glowplug.
Anyone got a solution or maybe a part-number on the little zero-mark-thing i am missing.
Thanks/john
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - raysorenson - 12-29-2013
You could use a dial indicator through the injector hole to find TDC.
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 12-29-2013
(12-29-2013, 05:27 PM)raysorenson You could use a dial indicator through the injector hole to find TDC.ř
Prechamberdiesel. I cant see the piston. Or am i blind?
If i could se it i would have used the True TDC method.
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - raysorenson - 12-29-2013
Yeah, it was a stupid post. I realized it right after I clicked "post reply".
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - muuris - 12-30-2013
Your "what the heck" is fuel preheater. Throw it away
Timing needle is on the other side of the water pump, between that and alternator. It's held by one 6mm bolt, if it's missing, you can get one from another engine. Too bad it isn't too precise, you have to do fine adjustment by dyno/buttdyno/ear.
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - erling66 - 12-30-2013
Nice project.
Do you still miss the bolt for the pump gear?
I can send you one in the mail for free
Need address
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 12-30-2013
(12-30-2013, 03:37 AM)erling66 Nice project.
Do you still miss the bolt for the pump gear?
I can send you one in the mail for free
Yeah. still misses the bolt. dont even know if its all the same for all pumps. my friend got one but he needs it for him self. a long sucker with left hand thread.
I can most sertenly pay for it if you want. at least shipping. or maby do some trade? i have a complete 123 donorcar, 79. Just tell me what you want for Xmas erling66
Dont want to sound greedy but do you also have the little timingmarkthing?
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - erling66 - 12-30-2013
(12-30-2013, 04:05 AM)johnSure I can find one for you(12-30-2013, 03:37 AM)erling66 Nice project.
Do you still miss the bolt for the pump gear?
I can send you one in the mail for free
Yeah. still misses the bolt. dont even know if its all the same for all pumps. my friend got one but he needs it for him self. a long sucker with left hand thread.
I can most sertenly pay for it if you want. at least shipping. or maby do some trade? i have a complete 123 donorcar, 79. Just tell me what you want for Xmas erling66
Dont want to sound greedy but do you also have the little timingmarkthing?
Send me a PM with your address and it will be on its way tomorrow.
PS W123 are nice cars but I don't have them anymore
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 01-03-2014
So, got the stupid engine in place straight finally (i think anyway)
I think i redid the stupid mounts 5 times. alwys to high, to low to far to the side etc.
finally i made a front jig and put a socket on the crankbolt so i knew i had that straight.
This is the final result. did everything in 10mm
Think it should hold.stupid ot edit after to many beers!!
Just saw a cool w114 limo getting smashed on transmformers 3!!
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - raysorenson - 01-03-2014
What did you use to weld the 10mm? Stick?
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 01-04-2014
(01-03-2014, 09:17 PM)raysorenson What did you use to weld the 10mm? Stick?
Yes
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 03-17-2014
update.
i think most things are sorted out.
w123 wagon = sls sytem
Used the original pump and put a multirib volvo-pump in front to drive the original sls-pump. Hope it spins the right way
Had to rebuild the extractor manifold to be able to close the hood. dam its tight with that big octopus under the hood
What about intercooler. Whats the biggest thing people have managed to squeeze down there? whats the best way to rout the pressure tubing.
Radiator? Is the w123 enough or should i fit a w124 cooler?
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - Gearbound - 03-17-2014
So much want here! Awesome build!
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - EmJay - 03-18-2014
Would love this for my build, barely fit the 5 cyl under the hood though. Keep up the good progress!
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - w124tony - 03-20-2014
I used a w124 SLS-power steering combination type pump
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 03-20-2014
(03-20-2014, 07:33 AM)w124tony I used a w124 SLS-power steering combination type pump
yes. but i was afraid the pressure might be wrong or that leakage due to atf oil in the rear shocks. They are madly expensive if they brake so i took the safe way.
Everyone that i have talked to (old mercedes mechanics) says that its very important to have the mercedes special oil in the sls, or it might brake down.
on the other hand i dont know how the steering would react on sls-oil.
Its also a fact that if a pipe brakes or starts leak the powersteeringpump will brake. the sls is the wingtype pump and will run for some time without oil or damage.
Trust me, i have made alot of thinking here.
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - w124tony - 03-20-2014
(03-20-2014, 07:52 AM)john(03-20-2014, 07:33 AM)w124tony I used a w124 SLS-power steering combination type pump
yes. but i was afraid the pressure might be wrong or that leakage due to atf oil in the rear shocks. They are madly expensive if they brake so i took the safe way.
Everyone that i have talked to (old mercedes mechanics) says that its very important to have the mercedes special oil in the sls, or it might brake down.
on the other hand i dont know how the steering would react on sls-oil.
Its also a fact that if a pipe brakes or starts leak the powersteeringpump will brake. the sls is the wingtype pump and will run for some time without oil or damage.
Trust me, i have made alot of thinking here.
No... the w124 te pump has two independent pumps in one unit using a common pulley, so the power steering and SLS systems oils are kept separated. so you can use the correct oils in both systems with that pump. The w210 pump uses a common pump and one oil type for both systems...but thats a different pump.
I have been down the same path as you, i have also put the om606 in a w123 te
RE: Daily driver w123tdt Om606 Superturbo - john - 03-20-2014
Ahh. Didnt know that.damm