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+--- Thread: OM 606 alternative ECU (/showthread.php?tid=5296)
OM 606 alternative ECU - Jambo - 01-30-2014
Hi all,
has anyone ever tried using an alternative ECU to run an OM606 like eg. Megasquirt?
Is it even possible?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - F.R.A.S - 01-30-2014
I have thought about it but never had the time and so on. It's hard to run an CR-engine with a Megasquirt, even though BOSCH Motorsport and VEMS has aftermarket ecus for this. But the older pumps like on the 606 should work with a cheap ecu like the Megasquirt. One has to look inside the original ecu first and se what's special about it.
I hope someone here know more about the 606 ecu hardware than I do. Would be fun realtime tune a 8mm IP with boost controll
could even controll the ALDA electronicly and make a super nice runing engine. Even though the mechanical IPs works like a Swiz clock 
(01-30-2014, 02:50 AM)Jambo Hi all,
has anyone ever tried using an alternative ECU to run an OM606 like eg. Megasquirt?
Is it even possible?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Jambo - 01-30-2014
I agree, mechanical is my first choice but will find out soon if the mechanical pump I have is useable.
Do you know how much a pump has to deliver (cc's) to get the stock 130kW(177PS) or better still 150kW?
Is there a graph or something similar that would indicate HP against fuel cc?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - F.R.A.S - 01-30-2014
Oh, that's almost nothing. Stock is like 80cc or so. With some dialing in and such hokus pokus there are like 120cc to get from the stock 6mm elements.
What's fun with electronic controll is the controll. Be able to really fine tune an engine is like poetry in motion. Feel the power producing under the finger tips is an amazing feeling.
I must have the best job ever
(01-30-2014, 05:32 AM)Jambo I agree, mechanical is my first choice but will find out soon if the mechanical pump I have is useable.
Do you know how much a pump has to deliver (cc's) to get the stock 130kW(177PS) or better still 150kW?
Is there a graph or something similar that would indicate HP against fuel cc?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Druk - 01-30-2014
Surely a Megasquirt runs piezo injectors? A 606 has mechanical injectors and the pump has solenoid rack actuation which is 'monitored' by it's ecu via a sensor. How would a Megasquirt run that?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - F.R.A.S - 01-30-2014
No a MS will not run a CR-engine. But a $12.000 BOSCH Motorsport will. Or the cheaper $2500 VEMS.
What does the ecu in an old IP like the 606 adjust? And how? Is there 1-5v signal, PID or what? How many things does the stock ecu controlls beside temp and such?
(01-30-2014, 11:42 AM)Druk Surely a Megasquirt runs piezo injectors? A 606 has mechanical injectors and the pump has solenoid rack actuation which is 'monitored' by it's ecu via a sensor. How would a Megasquirt run that?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Simpler=Better - 01-30-2014
(01-30-2014, 12:47 PM)F.R.A.S No a MS will not run a CR-engine. But a $12.000 BOSCH Motorsport will. Or the cheaper $2500 VEMS.
What does the ecu in an old IP like the 606 adjust? And how? Is there 1-5v signal, PID or what? How many things does the stock ecu controlls beside temp and such?
(01-30-2014, 11:42 AM)Druk Surely a Megasquirt runs piezo injectors? A 606 has mechanical injectors and the pump has solenoid rack actuation which is 'monitored' by it's ecu via a sensor. How would a Megasquirt run that?
I've heard rumors that you can "jump start" an electronic 606 on a stand, with the stock electric pump but I have no idea if that's true or not. I want to believe it's just a reference voltage and/or PWM signal but I don't have a running 606 car nor a scope to find out.
http://w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/Index/605_606/07MechElec.htm
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - INC - 01-30-2014
It`s no problem to disable immo, EGR and MAF in OM606 original ecu, and make modifications in programm.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Mark_M - 01-30-2014
MS would normally run solenoid Injectors.
Hardware wise MS could control a 606 pump but the firmware would need to be re-writen.
Are you sure VEMS can control a an electric pump? MS and VEMS aren't very different to each other in hardware or software capabilities. Again with different firmware same as MS it could probably do it but as is?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Eric78 - 01-31-2014
(01-30-2014, 11:42 AM)Druk Surely a Megasquirt runs piezo injectors?Nope, & what's even worse is that Megasquirt doesn't do sequential injection which is why they say it's not really road legal, it fires all injectors at once which in my mind not only defeats the purpose of multi-point efi but in a diesel it would be catastrophic.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - _siim_ - 01-31-2014
Are you drunk guys??? Ms have the sequental injection and vems dont cost 2500 miljons bucks
itś costs only 600-. eur + wirings etc.I´ll try to translate maps in original ecu ,I know its not easy but ,,stealing´´ chiptuned files and comparing them with the original stuff gonna help me out i belive.
Easist way I think is delete all unneccesary maps and try to use only boost pressure/gas pedal/rack position map(s)
No egr/maf or anything else elecronic stuff.
But first I need to find or download original ecu file from somewhere.
On the wide world have guys who can make it their eyes closed but it cost lot of money
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - F.R.A.S - 01-31-2014
There is a DIESEL-version of the VEMS, that cost $2500, but that's for CR-engines, not this old types like the 606.
If the pump signal is a PWM-signal it should be a piece of cake. But I don't think controlling the pump is the primary, when using a aftermarket ecu on an engine like the 606 that works like a charm with a mechanical pump. The true benefits should be that you can control everything around it... Like ALDA, Boost control and such. When using a electric pump there is a 0-5v signal from the gas pedal, like a TPS, logging that together with RPM, EGT and Boost you could make a 606 with more power than most people.
But it's not a PnP solution. Code might be written and so on to make it work and that's quite some hustle.
(01-31-2014, 02:35 PM)_siim_ Are you drunk guys??? Ms have the sequental injection and vems dont cost 2500 miljons bucks
I´ll try to translate maps in original ecu ,I know its not easy but ,,stealing´´ chiptuned files and comparing them with the original stuff gonna help me out i belive.
Easist way I think is delete all unneccesary maps and try to use only boost pressure/gas pedal/rack position map(s)
No egr/maf or anything else elecronic stuff.
But first I need to find or download original ecu file from somewhere.
On the wide world have guys who can make it their eyes closed but it cost lot of money
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - barrote - 01-31-2014
hello fine people,
I have a friend wich is electronic engineer, he spend his days fixing electrical and electronic problems in cars , few days ago he told me that i should change my 605 mechanical pump to the electronic one, and i said how i can run that here ?? well we can trick it was the answear. so i will try it and then i´ll tell u guys how to do it , well if i´m suceeded.
regards
FD
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 09-20-2015
It not hard to make standalone ECU for om606 pump.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - DiseaselWeasel - 09-20-2015
Yeah basically you plug your microwave to the pump, adjust it to 2000 kilowatts and bobs your uncle
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - m1tch - 09-20-2015
The issue is that the ECU is locked to the VIN of the car - you need to replace the chip in order to reflash it and it is possible, I believe there are issues with most off the shelf ECUs being fast enough to adjust the signals. There have been some progress with running the engine on an Arduino however not really past idle.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Tito - 09-21-2015
I bet the real problem will be the rack sensor. It uses a inductive distance style sensor I believe... Like this:
![[Image: EddyDistance1.JPG]](http://www.chenyang-ism.com/Figures/EddyDistance1.JPG)
The time it takes to charge the coil under a duty cycle or PWM, is a certain rack position. I doubt a standalone can read this signal.
I would like to try an Arduino. However, writing the software and having the knowledge could take ages. Could make me some money though!
I'm not sure about the electrical control though... But this could very well also be a duty cycle.
I would personally use the stock ECU. i think its easy to remap and immo-off. Would throw some faults about missing CAN-nodes.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - m1tch - 09-21-2015
You should be able to change a PWM signal to something else, I believe the E-manage piggyback ECUs can handle a PWM signal - will look into it.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Tito - 09-21-2015
The PWM signal is no problem. However, rack position is read by the time it takes to charge the coil. (the closer the metal, the harder it is to charge the coil, or vise versa)
Like this:
rc7.gif
However I'm not sure it's measured this way. I based this on my knowledge and other peoples voltage readings.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - m1tch - 09-21-2015
It might be easier to remap the ECU to simply output a different PWM signal via the stock setup rather than trying to use the a piggyback ECU - replacing the stock chip to be remappable might be an option - I have a spare ECU in the garage so I might be tempted to try something out.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - seanyt - 09-21-2015
To clear things up. A vems / Bosch or standalone ecu will not run the edc pump.
It uses two inductance Senors for rack position and offset due to temperature changes internally.
This is very specific to these pumps. The fuel solenoid is easily controlled but without a reference its hard for a pid controller to control.
I have already deimmobised 4 stock ecus for use in other vehicles successfully, also only needing crank sensor, throttle sensor, map sensor, ect and iat to run it essentially.
I also have different maps depending on pump used. Currently I have an 8mm pump and a low smoke or plenty of smoke map. With raised torque limits/ fuel limits etc and trial running rev limit.
Once my own car is on the dyno will we have a 100% custom rev limit solution.
So in the right hands the stock ecu is still an ideal solution.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 09-21-2015
Anybody have pump pinout?
Standalone ecu with 722.6 will be good combo.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - baldur - 09-21-2015
As some already know I have developed a bespoke ECU for the Bosch M EDC pump. This design has been running two cars locally without trouble for several months now. Not only is it an ideal solution for performance as fuel delivery can be fine tuned by laptop from within the car but it also makes engine swaps much easier as there's much less wiring required than when utilising the stock Mercedes ECU.
I will have them available for purchase by mid november.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Grecy - 09-21-2015
(09-21-2015, 07:37 PM)baldur As some already know I have developed a bespoke ECU for the Bosch M EDC pump. This design has been running two cars locally without trouble for several months now. Not only is it an ideal solution for performance as fuel delivery can be fine tuned by laptop from within the car but it also makes engine swaps much easier as there's much less wiring required than when utilising the stock Mercedes ECU.
I will have them available for purchase by mid november.
Very cool. Which engines will it drive?
I'd love to see a standalone for the OM648, 611/12 642, etc.
-Dan
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - ho55 - 09-22-2015
Why not just use the stock 606 ECU. It can be de-imobilised and tuned if required.
Myself and a few others are doing this.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - orion - 09-22-2015
Can you give us a little bit more informations about this work? Wich sensors are needed and have i to retained the KI from the donor car?
We could make a collection of knowledge on the subjekt!
best regards
orion
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - baldur - 09-22-2015
(09-21-2015, 09:53 PM)Grecy(09-21-2015, 07:37 PM)baldur As some already know I have developed a bespoke ECU for the Bosch M EDC pump. This design has been running two cars locally without trouble for several months now. Not only is it an ideal solution for performance as fuel delivery can be fine tuned by laptop from within the car but it also makes engine swaps much easier as there's much less wiring required than when utilising the stock Mercedes ECU.
I will have them available for purchase by mid november.
Very cool. Which engines will it drive?
I'd love to see a standalone for the OM648, 611/12 642, etc.
-Dan
This particular design will drive engines that have EDC injection pump, so OM605/606 turbo models and possibly others. I myself am planning to fit an EDC pump to an OM662 using this system. With this system it's possible to run any engine speed, with fully tunable fuelling across the entire operating range. It also has tunable turbocharger control for either PWM or CAN controlled units and high speed data logging.
The three sensors it needs to operate the engine are pedal position, engine speed and rack position. Manifold pressure sensor is required for turbo control and transient fuel limiting. Engine coolant temperature sensor is required for glow plug and cooling fan control. Exhaust temperature sensor can be used for fuel limiting as well.
I have a design for common-rail engines as well but it needs testing and further development.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - ho55 - 09-22-2015
(09-22-2015, 03:38 AM)orion Can you give us a little bit more informations about this work? Wich sensors are needed and have i to retained the KI from the donor car?
We could make a collection of knowledge on the subjekt!
best regards
orion
Yeah, i need to finish my complete write-up and post it. But basically - You can get a de-imobilizer circuit from the interweb such as: http://www.ecutool.com/Mercedes-Benz-CR1-IMMO-Emulator_9925.html. Instructions are there, but it requires a programming tool ($25) and a bit of electronics expertise.
I ripped the entire loom for the 606 from a donor W210 and cut away the bits that were not needed. I have the circuit diagram for the ECU connections and now know what each pin does, and which to add power to. You keep all of the engine sensors and the loom intact.
I will get my stuff together and post it asap.
(Incidentally when i first embarked on this there was someone from this forum who wanted to sell this information. That i find unacceptable, forums are for sharing information)
I should also add that, much of this was found out in partnership with pryantcc who was very helpful, and has also done this conversion.
p.s. I'm also working on a micro-controller to read and display some of the engine parameters, such as CEL, Glow and a few others that we miss without the original dash display.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - 50harleyrider - 09-22-2015
(09-22-2015, 05:59 AM)ho55Looking forward to hearing more. I want to retain the 99 ecu in my f150 swap so I can still get glow,tach,etc.(09-22-2015, 03:38 AM)orion Can you give us a little bit more informations about this work? Wich sensors are needed and have i to retained the KI from the donor car?
We could make a collection of knowledge on the subjekt!
best regards
orion
Yeah, i need to finish my complete write-up and post it. But basically - You can get a de-imobilizer circuit from the interweb such as: http://www.ecutool.com/Mercedes-Benz-CR1-IMMO-Emulator_9925.html. Instructions are there, but it requires a programming tool ($25) and a bit of electronics expertise.
I ripped the entire loom for the 606 from a donor W210 and cut away the bits that were not needed. I have the circuit diagram for the ECU connections and now know what each pin does, and which to add power to. You keep all of the engine sensors and the loom intact.
I will get my stuff together and post it asap.
(Incidentally when i first embarked on this there was someone from this forum who wanted to sell this information. That i find unacceptable, forums are for sharing information)
I should also add that, much of this was found out in partnership with pryantcc who was very helpful, and has also done this conversion.
p.s. I'm also working on a micro-controller to read and display some of the engine parameters, such as CEL, Glow and a few others that we miss without the original dash display.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - Petar - 09-22-2015
For measuring the inductance you could place a capacitator in parallel to the sensing coil and then measure the frequency at which the circuit oscillates. From there it would be easy to calculate the inductance.
How hard is to remove the immobilizer from the stock CDI ecu ? And make it run standalone ??
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 09-22-2015
Anybody have PUMP Pinout?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - m1tch - 09-23-2015
(09-22-2015, 05:59 AM)ho55(09-22-2015, 03:38 AM)orion Can you give us a little bit more informations about this work? Wich sensors are needed and have i to retained the KI from the donor car?
We could make a collection of knowledge on the subjekt!
best regards
orion
Yeah, i need to finish my complete write-up and post it. But basically - You can get a de-imobilizer circuit from the interweb such as: http://www.ecutool.com/Mercedes-Benz-CR1-IMMO-Emulator_9925.html. Instructions are there, but it requires a programming tool ($25) and a bit of electronics expertise.
I ripped the entire loom for the 606 from a donor W210 and cut away the bits that were not needed. I have the circuit diagram for the ECU connections and now know what each pin does, and which to add power to. You keep all of the engine sensors and the loom intact.
I will get my stuff together and post it asap.
(Incidentally when i first embarked on this there was someone from this forum who wanted to sell this information. That i find unacceptable, forums are for sharing information)
I should also add that, much of this was found out in partnership with pryantcc who was very helpful, and has also done this conversion.
p.s. I'm also working on a micro-controller to read and display some of the engine parameters, such as CEL, Glow and a few others that we miss without the original dash display.
Thanks for mentioning that CR1 emulator, I have a spare ECU which I will probably add this chip to so that I can use it in my car without needing to reprogram the key again (already have had one done already and that was £££s). I will then look into changing the flash chip out ready for remapping - will mean that I have a remappable ECU which I can easily plug into the car when the time comes without needing to worry about the immobiliser - I will need to somehow read the current code on the ECU to copy over though.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - ho55 - 09-23-2015
(09-22-2015, 06:57 PM)deviance Anybody have PUMP Pinout?
attached (this is for '98 W210 E300, i have others somewhere)
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 09-23-2015
Thank You.
This good too but I want the PUMP wiring to know How It wired.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - ho55 - 09-23-2015
(09-23-2015, 04:11 AM)deviance Thank You.
This good too but I want the PUMP wiring to know How It wired.
The pump is on that diagram.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 09-23-2015
Ok, I need for the Pinout!
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - AlanMcR - 09-25-2015
The electrical diagram for the ECU on a 1996 G300 with a OM606.964 is attached to this posting. Despite the fact that this is the factory diagram, the connections for the throttle position sensor are wrong. I lost the corrected version and will have to generate it again.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - ho55 - 09-25-2015
(09-25-2015, 12:49 AM)AlanMcR The electrical diagram for the ECU on a 1996 G300 with a OM606.964 is attached to this posting. Despite the fact that this is the factory diagram, the connections for the throttle position sensor are wrong. I lost the corrected version and will have to generate it again.
Thanks Alan, could you please post the index of the device number too please?
Sorry, i didnt scroll down
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - wanger - 10-29-2015
(09-22-2015, 03:41 AM)baldur(09-21-2015, 09:53 PM)Grecy(09-21-2015, 07:37 PM)baldur As some already know I have developed a bespoke ECU for the Bosch M EDC pump. This design has been running two cars locally without trouble for several months now. Not only is it an ideal solution for performance as fuel delivery can be fine tuned by laptop from within the car but it also makes engine swaps much easier as there's much less wiring required than when utilising the stock Mercedes ECU.
I will have them available for purchase by mid november.
Very cool. Which engines will it drive?
I'd love to see a standalone for the OM648, 611/12 642, etc.
-Dan
This particular design will drive engines that have EDC injection pump, so OM605/606 turbo models and possibly others. I myself am planning to fit an EDC pump to an OM662 using this system. With this system it's possible to run any engine speed, with fully tunable fuelling across the entire operating range. It also has tunable turbocharger control for either PWM or CAN controlled units and high speed data logging.
The three sensors it needs to operate the engine are pedal position, engine speed and rack position. Manifold pressure sensor is required for turbo control and transient fuel limiting. Engine coolant temperature sensor is required for glow plug and cooling fan control. Exhaust temperature sensor can be used for fuel limiting as well.
I have a design for common-rail engines as well but it needs testing and further development.
Any news on this Baldur?
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - baldur - 10-30-2015
The boards have arrived, I haven't had time to claim them from customs. I'm working on completing the documentation.
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 11-01-2015
Guys... please...
Anyone have pinout about the PUMP?
Btw...
Y1/1 Electrohydraulic shutoff actuator 8L
Y23/1 Fuel quantity actuator (IFI [ERE]) 36F
Y74 Pressure regulator valve 32E
Z6/8 Sensor ground connector sleeve 6
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - AlanMcR - 11-02-2015
(11-01-2015, 06:45 PM)deviance Guys... please...
Anyone have pinout about the PUMP?
Btw...
Y1/1 Electrohydraulic shutoff actuator 8L
Y23/1 Fuel quantity actuator (IFI [ERE]) 36F
Y74 Pressure regulator valve 32E
Z6/8 Sensor ground connector sleeve 6
See this posting (up above): http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=5296&pid=76102#pid76102
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - ho55 - 11-02-2015
Serioulsy... It's been posted twice in this thread, just look!
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - deviance - 01-05-2016
maybe i got idle. rpm limiter. controlling fuel like alda.
tables like driver wish rpm x tps%
smoke limiter rpm x pressure
RE: OM 606 alternative ECU - starynovy - 01-06-2016
That in-line pump uses same rack/actuator position sensing as later VE pumps. Translating its output to something sensible is quite simple. You feed that coil with square wave signal and then you measure downslope time which is proportional to inductance of coil which is also proportional to position of shorted turn that drives in its feromagnetic core ie. rack itself. I made this circuit and it has usable output of 4Volts which you can easily remap to read 0-100%. There on the internets its guy named Juho? He made standalone ECU for BOSCH VE pump based on arduino with oled VE pump which uses simple potentiometer to sense position. Therefore to make it work on Merc pump which uses HDK sensing it only needs fitting that my piece of circuit so processor can read where rack is. There is nothing to it, but to do it... maybe this spring while I still own C250TD.
