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+--- Thread: OM617 MW pump problems (/showthread.php?tid=5356)
OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-18-2014
So I turned the pump up on my engine that only has 180k on it i removed the rack limiter and turned the tourque capsle up 1/4 turn and backed the course idle screw out 1/4 turn. I removed the pump to do all of this because there is zero room under the hood of the toyota pickup I have it in. Now my issues is one of two things
1. Truck wont start it just cranks and cranks and cranks till white smoke pours out the stack. Timing issue? i have the pump set so the timing marks are even just like it was before i did all of this.
2. My rack sticks wide open but if I crack the top oil cooler line or loosen all the pump bolts it returns back like normal. I have no idea on this one is there a breather port that's clogged on the pump?
Truck ran and started before I touched the pump but I did have the rack sticking problem before removal of the pump.
For your amusement here is some pictures of the truck.
![[Image: 1654194_666128276762821_1585093351_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1654194_666128276762821_1585093351_n.jpg)
![[Image: 1601199_665807910128191_416440538_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/1601199_665807910128191_416440538_n.jpg)
![[Image: 1779702_665798270129155_1837624937_n.jpg]](https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1779702_665798270129155_1837624937_n.jpg)
Here you can see how little space there is in there.
![[Image: 1798236_665702763472039_1347462991_n.jpg]](https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1798236_665702763472039_1347462991_n.jpg)
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-19-2014
Sounds like Lance has another victim... His information on the MW really should be deleted.....
Unfortunately the instructions you followed are not correct for the MW pump. Even more unfortunate is that you removed a very important part that allows you to gain more performance when properly adjusted along with other adjustments.
I have had members tow their cars up from Ohio to have me fix their pumps after following those instructions, and one of them I recall mucked up the internal linkage and it stuck at full power..
If removing the top cover frees up the linkage, then the compensation rod may be bent. The compensation rod is the little pin that sticks out of the plate, and the ALDA moves it up and down to control the throttle ratio. That pin has a small spring that keeps the rod up, and the rod should move freely up and down when depressed.
Regarding the adjustment you made to what you called the “Course Idle Screw”, That is not correct for the RW governor that is on a MW pump.. These instructions result in the engine not wanting to return to idle, and it will tend to run a way so to speak.
The good news is that you know how much you turned everything, so you can recover, and progress the proper way to keep everything in balance. Given that you have to pull the pump to do any adjustments, you may as well put the Rack Limiter back in, and I will help you adjust the governors so that you will see a good increase in performance, and have control over the return to idle…
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - raysorenson - 02-19-2014
OM616, your MW tuning info is, AFAIK, only available in the document form. Is there any particular reason that it hasn't been copied and pasted into a thread?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-19-2014
(02-19-2014, 12:38 PM)raysorenson OM616, your MW tuning info is, AFAIK, only available in the document form. Is there any particular reason that it hasn't been copied and pasted into a thread?
As long as there is any other MW/RW tuning reference information posted, I actually prefer that the doc that I generated is not. The reason being is that if a member used the information that is not correct, (such as the case with the OP), and then the member posts that he has problems, (as the OP did), then there could be confusion as to which information he followed, and my information could be blamed by mistake. I think there has been enough successful outcomes resulting from following my information to vet it by now, vrs the posted info, which only results in issues.
As it is now, when the OP says that he followed the information in the thread, and there is no question what information he is speaking of.
My doc has been referenced and is available, and I should note that I am in no way in control of it. The information was generated for use by all, as a way of giving back, but, I do have an interest in protecting it’s legitimacy, as well as my reputation, ergo, I prefer that the doc not be directly posted as long as Lance’s MW information is anywhere to be found on this site.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - lgreeley83 - 02-19-2014
The sticky in engine is no good???? Glad I didn't mess with that stuff.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - raysorenson - 02-19-2014
(02-19-2014, 04:16 PM)lgreeley83 The sticky in engine is no good???? Glad I didn't mess with that stuff.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-19-2014
Well shoot. I don't know who lance is I received this "tune" from the owner of the company who makes these adapter plates for the Toyota transmission and his name is not lance. He claims that he runs all of his personal injection pumps with this "tune" OM616 if you would like to email me your pump adjustments that would be very much appreciated i have PM'd you my email.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - lgreeley83 - 02-19-2014
Why isn't the sticky edited? Been here a while I haven't heard until now that its bad?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - yankneck696 - 02-19-2014
It's always been wrong & numerous people have had issues with it. It might work for an M pump, but there are very few in the US. I am not even sure it will work for them. Either that, or Lance did it intentionally.
MODS< PLEASE REMOVE LANCE'S INFO !!!!!
Ed
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-20-2014
(02-19-2014, 06:38 PM)MERCEDES-BENZ Well shoot. I don't know who lance is I received this "tune" from the owner of the company who makes these adapter plates for the Toyota transmission and his name is not lance. He claims that he runs all of his personal injection pumps with this "tune" OM616 if you would like to email me your pump adjustments that would be very much appreciated i have PM'd you my email.
My remarks regarding Lance were not intended for you. He has posted his information all over the internet unfortunately, and that is where your guy got it from.
Just for grins, which direction did you turn the Torque Control?
A quarter tern won't be anything worth the grief of pulling the pump. Two or three turns on the other hand will be noticeable, four or five turns... then you got somethen lol... Of course you have to adjust the other governors properly to balance them out and have a good, controllable return to idle..
Have you asked your guy for help?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - winmutt - 02-20-2014
I ran withoiut a rack limiter for 2 years without issue. I can't help but wonder if others have done other things inside. I will add some warnings to the sticky.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-20-2014
(02-20-2014, 07:01 AM)winmutt I ran withoiut a rack limiter for 2 years without issue. I can't help but wonder if others have done other things inside. I will add some warnings to the sticky.
Aside of not being to able to fully control the fueling, removing the rack limiter is not the problem that causes the run away and limited torque control adjustment ability in which his approach yields.
It is his instructions regarding the idle settings that are the problem. I am only commenting on your post because I get the impression that you are thinking that the removal of the rack limiter is the problem, when it is his over all approach to tuning and lack of understanding that is the problem.
Personally, I don't give a fat frogs fanny, I just want to be sure my position is correctly understood.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - Simpler=Better - 02-20-2014
Can you cut an access panel in the firewall to tune the pump easily? I think some snap-rivet-threaded-bosses (forget the technical name) would do the trick
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-21-2014
Just for grins, which direction did you turn the Torque Control?
I turned it clock wise 1/4 turn
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-22-2014
(02-21-2014, 11:20 PM)MERCEDES-BENZ Just for grins, which direction did you turn the Torque Control?
I turned it clock wise 1/4 turn
A 1/4 turn isn't going to do very much at all... If you decide you really want to get it to go and pull the pump again, put an additional 3 turns (CW) on the Torque Control Capsule.
Then Return the Idle Governor screw to where it was before you backed it out 1/4 turn. Then give it a 1/4 to 1/2 turn in (CW) and lock it down. NOTE: be sure that you hold the idle governor screw when you turn the lock nut because the screw will with the nut and you will loose track of where it is.
Also, if you want more top end power you will need to replace the Max Speed Governor screw with a longer one, ( the stock one is too short to get enough adjustment out of it), and put 3 or 4 turns (CW) from where it was stock. NOTE: this will delay the fuel cut off and increase top end power, but will also increase the max speed that the Governor will limit the engine to... 3 or 4 turns should get you to about 6Kish RPM Max Speed..
Several other members have successfully tuned their governors and I encourage them to help out here. A link to the DOC would be great.
As to the install, when you are ready for that, we can get into timing the pump.
THIS IS ASSUMING THAT YOU HAVE AN EGT GAGE !!!!! IF YOU DO NOT, GET ONE INSTALLED BEFORE TOUCHING ANYTHING...
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-22-2014
I have a EGT gauge among many others
![[Image: 1012688_664836983558617_1203168157_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1012688_664836983558617_1203168157_n.jpg)
Now once i do all this and the pumps ready to go back into the truck how do i get the timing right so it will start and move?
How do I know I bent that pin that you think is causing the throttle sticking issue?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-22-2014
Excellent...
See if you can open this file. Give it a read, as I have not mentioned some of the adjustments you will need to do, or how the Governors work together..
Timing to come.....
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QkAv-HFaLqpK_5wKCln6DODkfw_DkjBHVYZXm0nUtEw/edit?hl=en&authkey=CJXuhs0I&pli=1#
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-23-2014
Ok i have read that now whats the next step.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - dieselmeken - 02-24-2014
During the workshop GTG this weekend, a OM617A pump runs in the bench. No removal of rack limiter just pure adjusting, Max fuel raised from 50cc to 64cc, 25% up, no after rew or so. work OK in testbench. Fuel before turbo boost around 10mm rack, 37cc, max @16,7mm rack 64cc. ALDA works between 10-16,7mm. Max fuel output at 21mm around 70cc from this pump.
Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - cho - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 01:58 AM)dieselmeken Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
Yes! Please!
.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - Simpler=Better - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 01:58 AM)dieselmeken During the workshop GTG this weekend, a OM617A pump runs in the bench. No removal of rack limiter just pure adjusting, Max fuel raised from 50cc to 64cc, 25% up, no after rew or so. work OK in testbench. Fuel before turbo boost around 10mm rack, 37cc, max @16,7mm rack 64cc. ALDA works between 10-16,7mm. Max fuel output at 21mm around 70cc from this pump.
Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
I will mail you a present
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - fordheaded - 02-24-2014
Fantastic idea, would be greatly appreciated!!!
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-24-2014
(02-24-2014, 01:58 AM)dieselmeken During the workshop GTG this weekend, a OM617A pump runs in the bench. No removal of rack limiter just pure adjusting, Max fuel raised from 50cc to 64cc, 25% up, no after rew or so. work OK in testbench. Fuel before turbo boost around 10mm rack, 37cc, max @16,7mm rack 64cc. ALDA works between 10-16,7mm. Max fuel output at 21mm around 70cc from this pump.
Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
By all means... Remember one critical thing when doing it though. You have to start with a stock set up first, (this is what everyone is starting with, not a torn down pump). Then change the settings from their stock location while keeping everything balanced...
I did not see how many additional turns you put on the Torque Control. That adjustment is worth the most on our pumps (a lot more then the rack limiter adjustment) as 99% do not need (cant handle) much more fuel as they are 100% stock engines, so shifting the fueling curve down (delaying the reduction) makes more of a difference with an every day drive car. (For reference I am running 5 turns on my Torque Control Capsule (beyond stock) on my pumps and have full control of how quickly it returns to idle).
Also adjusting the Max Speed Governor to extend the top end is good to show, but note that even though it will increase the top end, it will also increase the limited rev speed..
I’ll let you take over from here with this thread and refer any other members with questions to you to answer.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - dieselmeken - 02-25-2014
Yes ofcourse a stock pump, not touched. I got 3 MW for OM617A from ny Norweigian friends, I have som plans to try and set some bigger element in them, I shall try and make a small clip, running with indicator Clock on the rack as stock, just to se how it works, then adjust and try out again. Dont know when, I have alot to do for the moment in my Little shop.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-25-2014
So I still have not got a answer on why my throttle sticks wide open but as soon as I loosen a oil line or loosen the 3 13mm nuts holding the pump to the timing cover the throttle is perfectly fine and returns like normal. Dieselmeken I'm sure you know what the problem is. I really want to get my truck running again.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MFSuper90 - 02-25-2014
(02-24-2014, 01:58 AM)dieselmeken During the workshop GTG this weekend, a OM617A pump runs in the bench. No removal of rack limiter just pure adjusting, Max fuel raised from 50cc to 64cc, 25% up, no after rew or so. work OK in testbench. Fuel before turbo boost around 10mm rack, 37cc, max @16,7mm rack 64cc. ALDA works between 10-16,7mm. Max fuel output at 21mm around 70cc from this pump.
Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
That would be so helpful to so many people, and save lots of people from screwing up their pumps by not knowing what they are doing
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - w123love - 02-25-2014
(02-24-2014, 01:58 AM)dieselmeken During the workshop GTG this weekend, a OM617A pump runs in the bench. No removal of rack limiter just pure adjusting, Max fuel raised from 50cc to 64cc, 25% up, no after rew or so. work OK in testbench. Fuel before turbo boost around 10mm rack, 37cc, max @16,7mm rack 64cc. ALDA works between 10-16,7mm. Max fuel output at 21mm around 70cc from this pump.
Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
Ohhhh pleasee please pretty please.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 02-26-2014
(02-25-2014, 04:20 AM)MERCEDES-BENZ So I still have not got a answer on why my throttle sticks wide open but as soon as I loosen a oil line or loosen the 3 13mm nuts holding the pump to the timing cover the throttle is perfectly fine and returns like normal. Dieselmeken I'm sure you know what the problem is. I really want to get my truck running again.
Now that show boating and marketing is over with.... lol... If Dieselmeken has not gotten back with you after you asked for his help, let me know and we will see if we can figure out what is binding..
I am a big believer in the "two many cooks" theory and there are different approaches, experience levels, and languages between Dieselmeken and I, so I don't want to make this any more confusing than necessary with both of us trying to help... I am very busy too lol, but I will try my best if you do not hear back from him..
.I know the above may sound pissy lol… Don’t get me wrong, I like Dieselmeken…
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - dieselmeken - 02-27-2014
(02-25-2014, 04:20 AM)MERCEDES-BENZ So I still have not got a answer on why my throttle sticks wide open but as soon as I loosen a oil line or loosen the 3 13mm nuts holding the pump to the timing cover the throttle is perfectly fine and returns like normal. Dieselmeken I'm sure you know what the problem is. I really want to get my truck running again.
Actually, I have no Idea, It sounds really strange that it works ok when you slacken the oil line. Have you tryed to run the Engine without the linkage connected to the pump? I cant know what you have done wrong and yes, Dont hang me for not answering every single question after 1 day or so, I m quite busy for the moment.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - Simpler=Better - 02-27-2014
(02-27-2014, 01:34 AM)dieselmeken(02-25-2014, 04:20 AM)MERCEDES-BENZ So I still have not got a answer on why my throttle sticks wide open but as soon as I loosen a oil line or loosen the 3 13mm nuts holding the pump to the timing cover the throttle is perfectly fine and returns like normal. Dieselmeken I'm sure you know what the problem is. I really want to get my truck running again.
Actually, I have no Idea, It sounds really strange that it works ok when you slacken the oil line. Have you tryed to run the Engine without the linkage connected to the pump? I cant know what you have done wrong and yes, Dont hang me for not answering every single question after 1 day or so, I m quite busy for the moment.
No! We want free advice from a highly skilled professional RIGHT NOW!!!!
:p [just kidding]
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 02-28-2014
[/quote]
Actually, I have no Idea, It sounds really strange that it works ok when you slacken the oil line. Have you tryed to run the Engine without the linkage connected to the pump? I cant know what you have done wrong and yes, Dont hang me for not answering every single question after 1 day or so, I m quite busy for the moment.
[/quote]
I have not tried that but the pump is coming back out tonight to get readjusted so maybe it will solve itself once i readjust it
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 03-02-2014
UPDATE!!!
I re-pulled the pump turned governer scer 1/2 CW from the stock location and tourqe capsule 3 CW as to OM616 requests and the racklimiter is still removed.
But the truck will not stay running now. The timing marks are inline with each other currently.
Now i have advanced the pump timing by moving it but i feel like that is not the right way to time it due to the fact that no matter how much i advanced it truck still wont run so now my question is how do i time it correctly or is the timing even the issue.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 03-02-2014
(03-02-2014, 07:56 PM)MERCEDES-BENZ UPDATE!!!
I re-pulled the pump turned governer scer 1/2 CW from the stock location and tourqe capsule 3 CW as to OM616 requests and the racklimiter is still removed.
But the truck will not stay running now. The timing marks are inline with each other currently.
Now i have advanced the pump timing by moving it but i feel like that is not the right way to time it due to the fact that no matter how much i advanced it truck still wont run so now my question is how do i time it correctly or is the timing even the issue.
First, before you try to start the engine, it is critical that you back out (turn CCW) the Vertical Throttle Stop as described in the dock. This will require you to manually position the throttle for it to start and remain running, and will allow control the idle while you slowly turn (CW) the Vertical Throttle Stop until the engine will "begin" to idle on its own. At this point you will evaluate how the engine returns to idle and if you need to readjust the Idle Governor. Failure to follow the start up instructions in the doc exactly will result in potentially very exciting things that are not desirable.... (Having to manually keep the idle will allow you to shut the engine down should it want to run away.)
Now assuming that you have backed off the Vertical Throttle Stop at least 8 full turns, (make sure the throttle linkage will allow you to kill the fuel manually before starting), When you say it will not stay running, are you saying that it starts and then dies? or it will not start at all?
One critical thing you may have over looked is that even though you "marked" the pump housing to the block, it is very possible that the Pump Cam rotated when you pulled it, were playing with it on the bench, or while you were putting it back on.
You need to know where the engine is (timing wise), and where the IP cam is (timing wise), so you can be sure both match.
Bosch uses a drip method to determine when plunger is at on the cam.
So to clarify the problem, will then engine run on its own as long as the throttle is managed (as in it will not idle on its own). Or will the engine not fire and run at all?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 03-03-2014
The engine starts spits sputters then dies. I'm thinking that the cam rotated so ill have to do the drip timing method.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - OM616 - 03-03-2014
(03-03-2014, 12:16 AM)MERCEDES-BENZ The engine starts spits sputters then dies. I'm thinking that the cam rotated so ill have to do the drip timing method.
Did you bleed the air from the injector lines before you tightened them up? These things do not like air in the system... I have had to put my fingers over top of the DV holders to get the elements primed on occasion..
Definitely a good idea to find out where the IP cam is so you are not assuming... Something lots of people miss for some reason when trying to drip time, is that the throttle must be in the pull power position...
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - rdavisinva - 03-05-2014
(02-24-2014, 01:58 AM)dieselmeken During the workshop GTG this weekend, a OM617A pump runs in the bench...
Think its time for me to do a "how to adjust MW pump" movie soon, or what do you guys Think?
1000 Times yes, please please!!!
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 04-08-2014
OK now. Been a while but to make a long story short decided to get a new pump.
I thought new pump= no problems well thats a lie me and a buddy put a new pump in last night and it runs, starts, idles great but the throttle still sticks once there is oil in the engine and there are no obstructions its not catching on anything it just sticks for some reason and the pump has not been tampered with internally.
So whats is causing this?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - kmaser - 04-09-2014
Does it stick as soon as there is oil pressure? Do you have a pics, is it somehow possible the oil line to the pump is hooked up incorrectly putting oil pressure to the wrong place in the pump?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - raysorenson - 04-09-2014
The throttle isn't sticking. Your engine is burning oil.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - kmaser - 04-09-2014
Unless I am missing something, From what he has explained how does the engine burning oil explain why it returns to normal when the oil line or the pump mounting bolts are slackened. If he was burning enough oil to start running on it, it should not return to idle when he does those 2 things or was it only the first pump that would return when these things are done?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - raysorenson - 04-09-2014
Does he know, or just assume his "rack is sticking wide open"?
Are we to assume oil pressure can do this?
Take away assumptions, start from scratch and explore the obvious. What does the exhaust smell like when it runs away? Oil or diesel?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - kmaser - 04-10-2014
I agree, lets take away assumptions. We then need the answers to a few more questions.
-I was not assuming oil pressure could do it, that was a question as well so lets start like this.
1. Does the rack even move; does the engine speed up with the throttle held closed
2. He said sticking, I did not read anything saying the engine runs away. If the engine runs away with the throttle shut then I agree with it burning oil.
3. This still would not in my mind explain why the return to idle, but the other questions need to be answered first.
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - sassparilla_kid - 04-11-2014
Could it be something related to the advance thing that drives the pump?
RE: OM617 MW pump problems - MERCEDES-BENZ - 04-27-2014
rack deffinatley sticks not burning oil the throttle is incredibly hard also and it only does it when oil is in the vehicle i can move the rack to increase rpm but when i let go it just stays at that rpm it wont return to idle and i have already tried a firmer return spring so my best guess is that it has something to do with oil pressure