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+--- Thread: I've only just noticed this... (/showthread.php?tid=5513)
I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-11-2014
So I'm making a jig for some new mount arms. I was looking at the standard arms and noticed that they're angled. This angle tilts the engine, making the back lower than the front. I've noticed my engine is tilted at the back but I'm not sure why this is done?
So, should I maintain this angle with the new arms or should I eliminate it and make the engine level?
Thanks guys.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - willbhere4u - 04-11-2014
Most all engine are set at an angle towards the back by a few degrees. I'm not sure why though maybe it helps internal oil drainage in the engine.
also keeps the drive shaft inline if every thing was level from the rear diff forwards the oil pan would almost be on the ground?
RE: I've only just noticed this... - raysorenson - 04-11-2014
It's a driveline angle thing. Keep the angle of the dangle like it was.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-12-2014
So what angle should it be at? I need to make a new gearbox bracket/mount.
I'm pretty sure the engine was level when it was sitting in the w210. Now its in my 201 and it looks as though its quite slanted at the back.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - raysorenson - 04-12-2014
Roughly, it should be pointing 0-2 degrees farther down than the pinion gear.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - Druk - 04-12-2014
Yeh! Nothin...0...zip...nana...was what I was told otherwise the rubber shaft joints come under strain. They're supposed to run at 0deg deflection.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-12-2014
Lol so which is it? By the looks of things, my engine is a lot more than 2 degrees!
It doesn't make sense to have it running at anything other than 0 degrees, due to the same reason that druk mentions. Surely if it was meant to be at an angle they would have used universal or CV joints instead of a rubber coupling?
RE: I've only just noticed this... - raysorenson - 04-12-2014
Theoretically, zero is what you want but you won't get zero. If you're going to err, err on the right side. The pinion tilts up when forward torque is applied.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - Druk - 04-13-2014
(04-12-2014, 11:22 AM)hooblah Lol so which is it? By the looks of things, my engine is a lot more than 2 degrees!
It doesn't make sense to have it running at anything other than 0 degrees, due to the same reason that druk mentions. Surely if it was meant to be at an angle they would have used universal or CV joints instead of a rubber coupling?
This is exactly the point and the reason I had so much trouble with my 606 installation alignment. Not only do the two flanges have to be aligned vertically but they also have to be in the same horizontal plane. IE: draw an imaginary string through the center of the crankshaft/gearbox and it should meet the exact center of the diff nose extension. Mine was an 1" out of line which is why I now have a Spicered shaft.
I used this to determine the flange alignment.
![[Image: enginemounting009.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/enginemounting009.jpg.html)
And bolted 2 cut lengths of spare shafts, one to the front flange and one to the rear flange and eyeballed where they met centrally.
![[Image: propshaftalignment005.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaftalignment005.jpg.html)
Wasn't good.
.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-13-2014
Thanks Derek. I'll see what I can do, if its no good then I'll have to go with a UJ.
I've heard that by fitting a UJ there is more nvh transmitted and the ride becomes a little less refined. Is this true? How bad is it?
What exactly do you mean when you say 'wasn't good'?
And can you post a pic of your uj'd shaft please!
RE: I've only just noticed this... - Druk - 04-13-2014
There is no NVH on mine. At all! It's a smooth as a smooth thing on a smooth day...when it's smooth
. I had about 1" out of alignment in the vertical which would have required the engine to be lowered at the front to correct and that was a no-no because of Xmember clearance. Even the flanges of a Cardan shaft have to be within certain parameters for it to be successful. Interesting reading here:-
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml
The only prob is the cost which for mine was itro £300. Custom built though from 3" HD tube because of what the prop guy said was possible lash because of the length. (It's one piece 52").
![[Image: propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg.html)
Also...this was gleaned from this forum so mine's not a one-off.
![[Image: flange_zps6b0e0a94.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/flange_zps6b0e0a94.jpg.html)
RE: I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-13-2014
Excellent. Thanks Derek!
OK so what do you know about using CV joints instead of UJ's? That would tolerate differences in alignment, right? Thereby reducing vibration.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - raysorenson - 04-13-2014
Audi used (uses?) cv type joints in the DS. The flex discs absorb torsional vibration, something inline 6's have plenty of. U joints and CV joints do not.
If you have to use a hanger bearing you'll need to point the output shaft at that rather than the pinion. My DS guy said his DS software did not like the idea of a one-piece driveshaft long enough for my W124 unless I used 4" tubing to accomodate a very wide diameter splined sleeve. That wouldn't clear my shift linkage.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-13-2014
Hmm I guess you could keep the rubber coupling and attach the UJ/CV joint to that?
What effect will torsional vibration have on the ride?
If you aim the shaft from the gearbox to the CSB, how will the shaft going from the CSB to the diff be aligned?
RE: I've only just noticed this... - Druk - 04-13-2014
Propshaft mannie told me not to combine rubber with UJ joint as flexing of rubber would cause UJ to oscillate and therefore vibrate. Either have rubber (not poss because of mis-alignment) or UJ/CV but not both. CJ sounds good idea but difficult to attach to Merc flange?
I can only say from experience that a 52" (between flanges) shaft of 3" dia heavy duty wall with cardboard packing does not vibrate in any way. Don't forget it will unlikely be rotating at anything greater than 4500revs since anything above that is wasted with a 606. I hardly get mine over 3500 and mostly 2500 on motorways @70 -75mph.
RE: I've only just noticed this... - hooblah - 04-13-2014
Seems pretty simple to attach a CV joint to the merc flange, unless there's something you know that I don't? I'd either make a new flange or some sort of adaptor.
I'm intrigued with this cardboard packing... Please do go on.
I'd like to be able to use the full rev range as I'll be doing a bit of spirited driving and the odd track day, so the prop may well see 6k. Especially as my final gear is 0.82. This would see the prop rotating at just over 6k when the engines doing 5k.