OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Printable Version

OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Printable Version

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OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 06-07-2014

Hey everyone, new guy here with plans of converting a JK Wrangler Unlimited from the pathetic 3.8L mini van motor to an OM606 with OM603 pump. I am wondering if anyone knows what application of this engine would use a rear sump oil pan? I've been searching for a couple of weeks on Google and so far the only thing I have found is a pic of one that the the guys at Black Smoke Racing are using. I have e-mailed them looking for info but haven't heard back as of yet. See the following pics and let me know if you can tell me what the pan is from. Thanks!!

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - F.R.A.S - 06-08-2014

290td in the Korean SsangYong have that I believe, other that that I have no clue. Looking at the pictures it's not an elongated 5cyl witch would be the case in using a SsangYong one.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Druk - 06-08-2014

Almost looks like it could be a petrol sump. Possibly from an M103or M104.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - DiseaselWeasel - 06-08-2014

320 CDI http://www.ebay.com/itm/261261974932

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - ecFSE - 06-08-2014

+1 OM648 320CDI W211

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - led-panzer - 06-08-2014

I spy a supercharger...

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 06-08-2014

Thanks!! You guys rock! I will definitely be leaning on you guys for more info once this project starts. =)

(Mercedes part number 6480140302 just in case that Ebay ad disappears forever.)

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 06-08-2014

Any idea what oil pump/pick up assembly would be best for that? I would assume the same vehicle that the pan comes from?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Grecy - 06-09-2014

Hey dieseljeep,

I'm extremely interested in your swap. I'm planning to swap a mechanical 606 into a JK as well.
My aim is reliability and economy, not so much big power/torque.
Where in Canada are you? I'm in Whitehorse, Yukon.

What transmission will you be using?
Are you hoping to use stock Transfer Case and drive shafts?

Any more info you can provide would be great.

Thanks!
-Dan

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - pmj4147 - 06-11-2014

(06-08-2014, 01:47 AM)F.R.A.S 290td in the Korean SsangYong have that I believe, other that that I have no clue. Looking at the pictures it's not an elongated 5cyl witch would be the case in using a SsangYong one.

SSangyong doesn't have that kind of pan as i know...

It's simmiler but it won't be able to use in 606
I'm in korea...and drive SsangYong

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 06-11-2014

(06-09-2014, 12:22 PM)Grecy Hey dieseljeep,

I'm extremely interested in your swap. I'm planning to swap a mechanical 606 into a JK as well.
My aim is reliability and economy, not so much big power/torque.
Where in Canada are you? I'm in Whitehorse, Yukon.

What transmission will you be using?
Are you hoping to use stock Transfer Case and drive shafts?

Any more info you can provide would be great.

Thanks!
-Dan

Hi Dan. I'm in Edmonton. If I can get this project off the ground, I will be looking at using a 700R4 just to further eliminate any electronic controls. I am also looking at fuel economy but am aiming at some towing power as well. Even at stock output the powerband is so much lower than the 3.8L that it should already be fantastic for towing but a little more is always better, right? Big Grin

This probably won't happen until the fall as I have other projects to finish first but I'll post up when the time comes.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - kmaser - 06-12-2014

Did you buy a engine from the wreckers or did you find a complete car? I have been looking in Alberta and either way they are pretty hard to find.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Grecy - 06-12-2014

(06-11-2014, 09:57 PM)dieseljeep Hi Dan. I'm in Edmonton. If I can get this project off the ground, I will be looking at using a 700R4 just to further eliminate any electronic controls. I am also looking at fuel economy but am aiming at some towing power as well. Even at stock output the powerband is so much lower than the 3.8L that it should already be fantastic for towing but a little more is always better, right?

This probably won't happen until the fall as I have other projects to finish first but I'll post up when the time comes.

Thanks for the info.

My swap is also some time away, though I've been researching and planning for 6 months now.
It seems like running all the stock gauges and electronics shouldn't be too hard, lots of guys using the 4BT manage to make it all work in the JK. I would prefer to dtich the JK computer entirely, but I'm pretty sure that would kill the airbags and gauges, which I want to keep.
I'm interested in a standard trans, and it turns out the Merc 6-speeds that everyone on here uses (711.651 , 711.660, etc) are actually NSG-370... which is the exact 6 speed gearbox Jeep uses in the JK.
Unfortunately the bell housing is integral to the gearbox, but it does look like the gearbox comes in half.
What I'm thinking is use the front half (engine end) of the Merc NSG-370 with a sprinter flywheel/clutch so it bolts right to the OM606 and the back half (transfer case end) of the Jeep NSG-370.
Hopefully I can put the transmission in the stock location, keep stock transfer case and driveshafts.

I'm thinking a 3 inch exhaust, 6mm elements from the 603 pump, block the EGR and a new (maybe VNT) turbo, and with conservative driving I'm hoping for ~30mpg. This isn't too far off what G-Wagon drivers are getting with an OM606 and 6 speed, and they're running full-time 4wd.

All the measurements I've done say the engine should fit no problems, but it does look like it will need the rear sump you mention in this post. I believe the oil pan from a 603 will work, and you'll need the oil pump and pickup from that same engine.
The only other difference to the 606 that came stock in the G-Wagon is a baffle plate in the oil pan, to stop the oil foaming when on extreme climbing angles. I think I'll add that baffle.

Can't wait to see your build,

-Dan

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - AlanMcR - 06-12-2014

(06-12-2014, 01:27 PM)Grecy ... and with conservative driving I'm hoping for ~30mpg. This isn't too far off what G-Wagon drivers are getting with an OM606 and 6 speed, and they're running full-time 4wd.

I'd take claims like that with a grain of salt. With the lockup 5 speed auto I average 20mpg lately. That is with US gallons, not UK, and I am a very conservative driver. Most G300DT (G - factory built with OM606) owners tell me they only hope to get up to that kind of MPG. Check out spritmonitor.de for some actual fuel economy. The G300 with better mileage is the CDI. My data is out of date by several years.
G300-SpritMonitor
If you want 30MPG, a 250CDI BlueEfficiency would be the ticket. A nightmare of modules and wiring though.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 06-12-2014

(06-12-2014, 04:36 AM)kmaser Did you buy a engine from the wreckers or did you find a complete car? I have been looking in Alberta and either way they are pretty hard to find.

I've got my eye on a complete car.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Druk - 06-13-2014

(06-12-2014, 07:55 PM)dieseljeep I've got my eye on a complete car.

Do you mean the 606.962 from a W210 or the 606.910 from a W124?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - gn3dr - 06-13-2014

Great info on the sump. I thought I was going to have to cut and weld my 606 sump.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Grecy - 06-14-2014

(06-08-2014, 05:00 AM)DiseaselWeasel 320 CDI http://www.ebay.com/itm/261261974932

I was under the impression the sump from the OM603 was also rear sump, and the oil pump and pickup from that engine is a bolt-up to the 606.
Is that correct?

Thanks,
-Dan

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 06-15-2014

(06-13-2014, 04:59 AM)Druk Do you mean the 606.962 from a W210 or the 606.910 from a W124?

W210

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - DiseaselWeasel - 06-16-2014

603 is front sump

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Grecy - 06-16-2014

(06-12-2014, 05:47 PM)AlanMcR I'd take claims like that with a grain of salt. With the lockup 5 speed auto I average 20mpg lately. That is with US gallons, not UK, and I am a very conservative driver. Most G300DT (G - factory built with OM606) owners tell me they only hope to get up to that kind of MPG. Check out spritmonitor.de for some actual fuel economy. The G300 with better mileage is the CDI. My data is out of date by several years.
G300-SpritMonitor
If you want 30MPG, a 250CDI BlueEfficiency would be the ticket. A nightmare of modules and wiring though.

Thanks for the info.

What rpm are you turning at cruising speed in your 5 speed auto?
I will gear mine to turn at only 2,100 rpm in 6th at 100 km/h, and I won't really need to cruise any faster than that.

On the trip I'm planning, roads won't allow me to drive over 80km/h, likely less than 60km/h most of the time. My last trip was Alaska->Argentina, the next one is a lap of Africa.

That's part of the reason I want the all-mechanical 606 with the 603 pump - no electronics, easier to fix if something crops up.

-Dan

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - AlanMcR - 06-17-2014

(06-16-2014, 05:38 PM)Grecy Thanks for the info.

What rpm are you turning at cruising speed in your 5 speed auto?
I will gear mine to turn at only 2,100 rpm in 6th at 100 km/h, and I won't really need to cruise any faster than that.

On the trip I'm planning, roads won't allow me to drive over 80km/h, likely less than 60km/h most of the time. My last trip was Alaska->Argentina, the next one is a lap of Africa.

That's part of the reason I want the all-mechanical 606 with the 603 pump - no electronics, easier to fix if something crops up.

-Dan

At 65mph on 265/75R16 tires the engine is at 2500rpm. The engine's peak efficiency is somewhere between 2200 and 2600.
The OM606 might actually want a little more RPM than you are gearing for. I take it that you have the 4.375:1 diffs in the axle?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Grecy - 06-17-2014

(06-17-2014, 01:22 PM)AlanMcR At 65mph on 265/75R16 tires the engine is at 2500rpm. The engine's peak efficiency is somewhere between 2200 and 2600.
The OM606 might actually want a little more RPM than you are gearing for. I take it that you have the 4.375:1 diffs in the axle?

Thanks.
I'll be putting the OM606 into a Jeep JK Rubicon Unlimited actually, likely using an NSG 370 gearbox (same innards at a Merc 616.6xx) and the Jeep has 4.10 diffs, with an extremely low low-range in the transfer case. I'll be running 33" tires.
It does not have full-time 4x4.

From what I've read of other people doing the OM606 with a 6 speed in a G-Wagon, it has tons and tons of torque at 1800rpm.

I'm looking for a dyno graph for a stock OM606 turbo, it would be nice to see where in the rev range peak torque is.

-Dan

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - ho55 - 06-20-2014

I'm interested in this too, but we really need confirmation that the oil pump and sump from an e320 CDI (W211) will drop into an be bolt on compatible to OM606 motor.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 06-20-2014

I'm interested in this too, the OM606 sump in my Land Rover is very close to the front axle case. Looking on Ebay, the W211 E320 cdi sump and oil pick do look spot on that they should fit.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - zeeman - 06-20-2014

(06-20-2014, 01:53 AM)ho55 I'm interested in this too, but we really need confirmation that the oil pump and sump from an e320 CDI (W211) will drop into an be bolt on compatible to OM606 motor.

I have had the same problem putting a OM606 in my Jeep cherokee. I have been installing a )M648 in a 53 GMC surburban for a customer and never thought the block was the same as a OM606.

It does have a rear sump, bolt pattern looked the same as the OM606. I bought a OM648 pan and oil pump to see if it would work. It is a bolt on to the OM606 block as well as the oil pump. Just needs the main cap bolts from the OM648 to fasten the oil pump pickup tube to.

See pictures.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - ho55 - 06-21-2014

Many thanks for the confirmation!
How are the 648 cap bolts different? Do they have a female thread in the head or something?
Don't suppose you know the part number?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - DiseaselWeasel - 06-21-2014

Looks like this has a dip-stick too (not std. on many modern lumps...)?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - zeeman - 06-21-2014

(06-21-2014, 07:19 AM)ho55 Many thanks for the confirmation!
How are the 648 cap bolts different? Do they have a female thread in the head or something?
Don't suppose you know the part number?

I would assume they have a stud on the head for the oil pump pickup tube to attach to. Similar to a SBC chevy for there windage tray. Dealer should have part numbers, will check with my local dealer for a number.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - ho55 - 06-28-2014

Right i have myself the sump and oil pump from ebay, but i am missing the dip stick tube, i dont suppose anyone has one lying about?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - dieseljeep - 07-04-2014

Zeeman - thanks for the info on the oil pump and pan fitment!! That will undoubtably help several people with future swaps!!

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - hooblah - 07-13-2014

The cheapest 648 sump I can find is over £100. Wouldnt it be cheaper to just cut the flange off the 606 sump, turn it around and weld it back together?
Or is there some reason why people aren't doing that?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - CRD4x4 - 07-13-2014

I think warping of the pan and/or flange during welding would be the biggest challenge.

(07-13-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah Wouldnt it be cheaper to just cut the flange off the 606 sump, turn it around and weld it back together?
Or is there some reason why people aren't doing that?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - ho55 - 07-18-2014

Be patient and search ebay with the part number (6480140302) one will come up. Check on ebay.de specifically too. I found mine for 50 Eur.
You do know that you have to change the oilpump for the 648 type too, dont you? The 606 pump will not fit with the 648 sump.

(07-13-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah The cheapest 648 sump I can find is over £100. Wouldnt it be cheaper to just cut the flange off the 606 sump, turn it around and weld it back together?
Or is there some reason why people aren't doing that?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - hooblah - 07-19-2014

Yes i will be changing the oil pump as well. Thanks for the part number!

I've found someone with the sump and oil pump. He wants £165. Still sounds a but much lol.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - hooblah - 07-19-2014

Ive never replaced an oil pump before, so I was just wondering what is the best or preferred method or removing and installing it? I assume there isnt a removable link in the chain?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Druk - 07-20-2014

It simply hooks into the chain and when you put the pump bolts in and tighten them it tensions the chain. The ball breaker might be if the different pumps have different sized chainwheels in which case you will need a riveter.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - hooblah - 07-20-2014

Cheers Derek. If it turns out the chainwheel is bigger, can I just swap them between the pumps? If thats not possible can I get extra links from somewhere?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Druk - 07-20-2014

I wouldn't swap the chainwheel even if it's possible without checking the gearing ratio from the crank. You might inadvertently alter the pressure or flow.
I'm sure Merc would be delighted to sell you a new chain wherefrom you could use links as reqd. Wink

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 07-20-2014

I thought I'd just check how compatable my OM648 oil pump is compared with a spare OM605 oil pump

[Image: 100_7093_zps048805a9.jpg]

The chain gear is the same size/teeth etc, but sits further forward and tighter up to the block, so appears not to be a direct swap unless someone can prove otherwise?

I think I can pull the gear off the 648 pump and either modify it or fit the 605/6 gear on the front, then either shorten the chain if that's possible or find the correct 648 chain and use that instead?

Not quite the bolt-on solution I was hoping for!

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Petar - 07-20-2014

Maybe you want the 5 cylinder oil pump (OM647). Maybe that is bolt on ?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 07-20-2014

(07-20-2014, 02:38 PM)Petar Maybe you want the 5 cylinder oil pump (OM647). Maybe that is bolt on ?

I've ordered one of those too (I have both a 605 and 606 that need rear bowl sumps), just having a quick comparison to double check if they fit or not.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - hooblah - 07-20-2014

Derek, of course I wouldnt just swap it without comparing them!

Nice one Simon. How similar is the 606 pump to the 648 pump?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 07-20-2014

(07-20-2014, 03:52 PM)hooblah Derek, of course I wouldnt just swap it without comparing them!

Nice one Simon. How similar is the 606 pump to the 648 pump?

I'm sure the 605/606 pumps are almost identical, not actually sat them side by side yet.

In the workshop right now my project 605 is sat on it's end for doing the gearbox conversion. I can also take the sump off when the 647 sump and oil pump arrive and see how I can get them to fit and work.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - Druk - 07-20-2014

How much further fwd is the wheel on the 648 pump relative to the mounting bolt holes? I wouldn't have thought there was scope for the crank drive-ring to be moved an 1" further fwd as it appears from the pic it would need to be.

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - hooblah - 07-20-2014

By the looks of things, the pumps appear to have the same sort of dimensions but its the gears that are different. Im guessing you could swap the gears round and it should be fine. But obviously I havent seen it in person so I can only speculate.

Whats holding the gear on on the 648 pump?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 07-21-2014

(07-20-2014, 04:52 PM)Druk How much further fwd is the wheel on the 648 pump relative to the mounting bolt holes? I wouldn't have thought there was scope for the crank drive-ring to be moved an 1" further fwd as it appears from the pic it would need to be.

(07-20-2014, 08:00 PM)hooblah By the looks of things, the pumps appear to have the same sort of dimensions but its the gears that are different. Im guessing you could swap the gears round and it should be fine. But obviously I havent seen it in person so I can only speculate.

Whats holding the gear on on the 648 pump?

It's closer to 1/4" out and looks pressed on unlike the 605 pump gear which is held on with a bolt. I will try and pull it off and see what I can do and post up my progress, dimensions etc Smile

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 07-22-2014

I've now got an OM647 sump and oil pump in addition to my OM648 sump and oil pump

[Image: 100_7101_zps4731bae7.jpg]

My project OM605 engine is in the workshop so over the next few weeks if I have the time I may be able to build something up and get it working....

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - ho55 - 07-22-2014

I thought that Zeeman had confirmed that the 648 pump was a drop in fit. Zeeman did you really check for this offset?

RE: OM606 rear sump oil pan? - simonm16p6 - 07-23-2014

UPDATE Big Grin

It turns out the breaker I got my spare oil pump from had taken the gear off to remove the pump and put it on back to front!

The 647 pump and sump are a straight fit onto the 605 engine, even the drive chain is fine as the pump is offset in addition to being shallower, so is close to the original arc. The only issues I can find are I need another main cap bolt with the extension boss for the windage tray to be relocated to the rear of the engine and the bolt lengths are different.

[Image: 100_7131_zpsa1d01d97.jpg]

So yes, it does appear that the later cdi sumps and oil pumps are a direct swap to the older 605/606 engines Cool