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+--- Thread: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? (/showthread.php?tid=5929)
Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - yatzee - 10-18-2014
I've got a spare #14 head (i'd originally said it was a 17 - my error) kicking around in my garage. Given that it's not as desirable as the new castings, what's this one worth?
I would only sell it once I've had a pressure test done by a local shop
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - MFSuper90 - 10-18-2014
I would possibly be interested, I am picking up a 603 with a #14 head Monday. It depends on the price, because to be totally honest with you I won't pay the same amount for a #17 as say a #22 or something along those lines.
Ah, the age old question... - mbz123 - 10-18-2014
Second only to "What is the meaning of life?" and just as complex.
It may not be as desirable as the final revision casting is, but the difference is negligible. The range of opinions, including this one, will prove far more expansive. All else equal, price difference among castings #17, #19, #20 and #22 is gonna be one, two hundred dollars max whereas between a redesigned and an original is gonna be several hundred or more. Not too many buyers (uninformed/neg. experience/etc.) are willing to put faith in an original casting with XXXk miles on it. IMO, if it tests out and is within spec, a #14 is worth a couple hundred. Is it a race ready part, no. Will it provide another couple hundred thousand miles, yes.
Alloy IS NOT steel. The same dingbat who grenades a #14 is gonna wreck a #22, just might take a few more months.
Yours, barring tests, should fetch at least four to five hundred USD (I'm not current on exchange rates.) Check fleabay sold listings as they are closest to meaningful data. Adjust price with your desire to sell. Your markets are pretty much US and Canada since the euro market, IMO, is soft to non-existent due to availability of om606.
MBZ123
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - yatzee - 10-25-2014
looks like I made a mistake - it is a #14 head. It came off my 87. I've been quoted $50-75 for a pressure test - does that sound right?
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - capflya - 10-25-2014
Thats pretty cheap... Down here best price I could find was like $150 since they have to clean it and pressure test.
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - w123love - 10-25-2014
I'll tell you that $150 is pretty steep. I pressure test heads and it takes about an 45 min to an hour of prep. The labor comes from plugging the holes to make it water tight. An hour of shop time is $75. I'll check next time on in for what we charge exactly.
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - MTUPower - 11-02-2014
No one really wants a #14. When I had a #22 they came running to my door. #17's can go for $500. #22 as much as a grand; that's real world selling prices here in the USA. There is a big difference and the #14 will fail with zero operator error on a very large percentage basis more over any casting higher. Not sure how the "dingbat" operator would be at fault for the poor design of the #14.
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - yatzee - 11-02-2014
ok, i guess i'll keep it for now until I need the shelf space for something else
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - mbz123 - 11-03-2014
(11-02-2014, 11:23 AM)MTUPower No one really wants a #14. When I had a #22 they came running to my door. #17's can go for $500. #22 as much as a grand; that's real world selling prices here in the USA. There is a big difference and the #14 will fail with zero operator error on a very large percentage basis more over any casting higher. Not sure how the "dingbat" operator would be at fault for the poor design of the #14.
Hmmm, dingbat was a catchall to describe any number of types prone to "car problems." One example being the zealous STD neweb convinced turning this screw and adding that force-feeder will transform his bucket into that "tuner" he saw on ewe-toob. Why not? He's an SME who read all night and swears to change that evil green coolant of unknown age just as soon as he halves his zero to sixty. O ya he's the same tard that ran 100% fryer oil cause: "totally ran it through two micron like ten times!"
"Poor design" tho? Wanna qualify that statement? Me thinks you put too much faith in the opinions ye read. That "poor design" is responsible for plenty 100k+++ autos out there. I know of one such example that logged its first 168k WITH THE TRAP OX! Hardly "poor" in my book.
O and the reason for higher percentages of #14 heads failing when compared to redesigned heads is they represent a higher percentage in the wild . Simple math. I'd bet c-notes to singles with higher miles on avg too.
OP - It is true that the market for an original casting probably doesn't exist. More reason to shelve it for a rainy day or fix a non-runner. FYI, don't pay anybody to test it w/o them detailing exactly how they will. And a hundred bux is more than enough. You can diy with half that.
MBZ123
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - yatzee - 11-03-2014
(11-03-2014, 07:45 AM)mbz123(11-02-2014, 11:23 AM)MTUPower No one really wants a #14. When I had a #22 they came running to my door. #17's can go for $500. #22 as much as a grand; that's real world selling prices here in the USA. There is a big difference and the #14 will fail with zero operator error on a very large percentage basis more over any casting higher. Not sure how the "dingbat" operator would be at fault for the poor design of the #14.
Hmmm, dingbat was a catchall to describe any number of types prone to "car problems." One example being the zealous STD neweb convinced turning this screw and adding that force-feeder will transform his bucket into that "tuner" he saw on ewe-toob. Why not? He's an SME who read all night and swears to change that evil green coolant of unknown age just as soon as he halves his zero to sixty. O ya he's the same tard that ran 100% fryer oil cause: "totally ran it through two micron like ten times!"
"Poor design" tho? Wanna qualify that statement? Me thinks you put too much faith in the opinions ye read. That "poor design" is responsible for plenty 100k+++ autos out there. I know of one such example that logged its first 168k WITH THE TRAP OX! Hardly "poor" in my book.
O and the reason for higher percentages of #14 heads failing when compared to redesigned heads is they represent a higher percentage in the wild . Simple math. I'd bet c-notes to singles with higher miles on avg too.
OP - It is true that the market for an original casting probably doesn't exist. More reason to shelve it for a rainy day or fix a non-runner. FYI, don't pay anybody to test it w/o them detailing exactly how they will. And a hundred bux is more than enough. You can diy with half that.
MBZ123
Will do.
I have to admit that any of the om603's that i've gone to see over the years have had the #14 head and have been running just fine. I wonder if having an updated head is just something that people want when they're 'in the know'?
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - MTUPower - 11-09-2014
(11-03-2014, 07:45 AM)mbz123Are you trying to make communication difficult? What's with the "ye" "ya" "me thinks" "tho" "eew-toob"?? You sound like a 14 year old.(11-02-2014, 11:23 AM)MTUPower No one really wants a #14. When I had a #22 they came running to my door. #17's can go for $500. #22 as much as a grand; that's real world selling prices here in the USA. There is a big difference and the #14 will fail with zero operator error on a very large percentage basis more over any casting higher. Not sure how the "dingbat" operator would be at fault for the poor design of the #14.
Hmmm, dingbat was a catchall to describe any number of types prone to "car problems." One example being the zealous STD neweb convinced turning this screw and adding that force-feeder will transform his bucket into that "tuner" he saw on ewe-toob. Why not? He's an SME who read all night and swears to change that evil green coolant of unknown age just as soon as he halves his zero to sixty. O ya he's the same tard that ran 100% fryer oil cause: "totally ran it through two micron like ten times!"
"Poor design" tho? Wanna qualify that statement? Me thinks you put too much faith in the opinions ye read. That "poor design" is responsible for plenty 100k+++ autos out there. I know of one such example that logged its first 168k WITH THE TRAP OX! Hardly "poor" in my book.
O and the reason for higher percentages of #14 heads failing when compared to redesigned heads is they represent a higher percentage in the wild . Simple math. I'd bet c-notes to singles with higher miles on avg too.
OP - It is true that the market for an original casting probably doesn't exist. More reason to shelve it for a rainy day or fix a non-runner. FYI, don't pay anybody to test it w/o them detailing exactly how they will. And a hundred bux is more than enough. You can diy with half that.
MBZ123
Mercedes recognized there were issues with the head and made several design changes over the years to solve those issues. The average driver of a S class diesel (when they were newish) in the USA was not a "tuner" or a "dingbat"- they were and are a car driver who wants the car to operate without issues. The #14 head was a poor design and failed far to often with no fault from the driver. The later designs were superior, failed less often and had better performance.
(11-03-2014, 08:40 AM)yatzee Will do.Many of the #14 heads ran without issues for the life of the vehicle; if fact if they did fail MB would not sell you a #14 head; you had to replace it with a newer updated casting.
I have to admit that any of the om603's that i've gone to see over the years have had the #14 head and have been running just fine. I wonder if having an updated head is just something that people want when they're 'in the know'?
WOW - Struck a chord???? - mbz123 - 11-10-2014
(11-09-2014, 11:42 AM)MTUPower You sound like a 14 year old.
Ya, so do half the posters on this board, mistuh butthurtz. Can you not into ON-TOPIC????
(11-09-2014, 11:42 AM)MTUPower Mercedes recognized there were issues with the head and made several design changes over the years to solve those issues.
Was the head design the only thing that changed???? Uhhhhuhhh...
NEWSFLASH: ALL ALLOY HEADS WILL FAIL. Even the ones owned by innocent drivers 8-D
(11-09-2014, 11:42 AM)MTUPower The #14 head was a poor design and failed far to often with no fault from the driver. The later designs were superior, failed less often and had better performance.
Falso, if by "poor" you mean being able to provide 100k+ miles of service before failure, then sure. Let's not forget, this was a MID-EIGHTIES vehicle. Otherwise, it was not a "poor" design. Actually the contrary. And of course redesigns were better, THAT'S THE POINT. Post some factual data re: the numbers (at min. #failed heads replaced under warranty,) then state your hypothesis. Or does skimming half that thread and cherry-picking a few posts from the other thread anoint you SME? If so, perpetuate on sire. What do I know, I'm just a dum-dum drivin a "POOR" design that's cranked out 172k and counting.
(11-09-2014, 11:42 AM)MTUPower ...if they did fail MB would not sell you a #14 head; you had to replace it with a newer updated casting.
Wow, how profound.
I'm gonna go ahead and call it here. Only intention was to provide OP with useful info, not get rooked into a pointless quibble. There you go, monsieur, you were right after all. Only the latest design cyl head is serviceable, all others are #$@#@. BTW, wanna buy a #22? Special price, just for you!
MBZ123
(11-03-2014, 08:40 AM)yatzee I have to admit that any of the om603's that i've gone to see over the years have had the #14 head and have been running just fine. I wonder if having an updated head is just something that people want when they're 'in the know'?
Uhhhuhhh... Don't sweat the unsubstantiated drivel, just toss that baby on the shelf. Now you're in the know.
If you want to test the head, find a shop that can dye test it. Otherwise, hawkeye that pressure test if taken to the shop you mentioned above. You can diy a pressure test, it isn't difficult. Might not beat $75 without some creativity, tho. Make absolutely sure they don't over pressurize or overheat. Get specifics before you okay anything. (If you want, I'll hunt down a thread I ran across somewheres that step by stepped a diy pressure test.)
MBZ123
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - MTUPower - 11-10-2014
(10-18-2014, 03:39 PM)yatzee I've got a spare #14 head (i'd originally said it was a 17 - my error) kicking around in my garage. Given that it's not as desirable as the new castings, what's this one worth?Sorry for the adolescent rants from the other poster; I have no dog in this fight- I'm just giving you advice from what I've sold 603 heads for in the past. If the #14 head was taken out of a running car then sell it as is and disclose that. Be glad to get a couple hundred and call it a day.
I would only sell it once I've had a pressure test done by a local shop
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - sassparilla_kid - 11-10-2014
Okay everybody calm down, we'll have none of this name calling/etc.
I can get along! Can YOU get along? E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y NOW!!!! 8-D - mbz123 - 11-11-2014
(11-02-2014, 11:23 AM)MTUPower No one really wants a #14.
...
(11-10-2014, 10:20 PM)MTUPower If the #14 head was taken out of a running car then sell it as is and disclose that. Be glad to get a couple hundred and call it a day.
Awwwwwwww, see there. We all knew you'd come around.
MBZ123
RE: Feeler - what is a OM603 #17 head worth? - MTUPower - 11-13-2014
(11-11-2014, 03:30 PM)mbz123If you have a 603 with a bad head it won't likely be a #17 or #22. When looking to replace that head if you can't find a #17 or #22 but you've found a #14 which came out of a running car do you buy it or not drive at all? Should you sit around with a non running car and wait? If it's your daily driver you are going to buy a #14. No one goes out and looks for a #14- but 603 owners WILL go and look for a #17 or #22. I sold a #22 to a owner with two 603 powered cars and both were running. He would not have bought a #14.(11-02-2014, 11:23 AM)MTUPower No one really wants a #14.
...
(11-10-2014, 10:20 PM)MTUPower If the #14 head was taken out of a running car then sell it as is and disclose that. Be glad to get a couple hundred and call it a day.
Awwwwwwww, see there. We all knew you'd come around.
MBZ123