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+--- Thread: Reinforced guibos (/showthread.php?tid=6144)
Reinforced guibos - Eric78 - 01-17-2015
So who makes/sells guibos (flex disks) for high performance Mercs?
RE: Reinforced guibos - raysorenson - 01-17-2015
Check with hedgehog motorsports.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Eric78 - 02-02-2015
What are the measurements for a Mercedes 3 bolt Guibo? What is the diameter & bolt hole size? Is it the same as any BMW? Because I found some billet Alloy & Urethane ones for BMW.
RE: Reinforced guibos - erx - 02-02-2015
Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.
RE: Reinforced guibos - whipplem104 - 02-02-2015
If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Eric78 - 02-03-2015
(02-02-2015, 04:50 AM)erx Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.
More specifically a 3 bolt w201 flex disc.
(02-02-2015, 07:52 PM)whipplem104 If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.
Only a 605 with an HX35, Custom driveshaft is about a grand & it means I'd have to have the car off the road for a while.
RE: Reinforced guibos - erx - 02-03-2015
(02-03-2015, 04:18 AM)Eric78Ok, what gearbox and differential are you using? I think stock w201 is 90mm which is quite small and weak.(02-02-2015, 04:50 AM)erx Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.
More specifically a 3 bolt w201 flex disc.
(02-02-2015, 07:52 PM)whipplem104 If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.
Only a 605 with an HX35, Custom driveshaft is about a grand & it means I'd have to have the car off the road for a while.
RE: Reinforced guibos - erx - 02-03-2015
I made some pictures of stock ones, If someone is interested. From left to right:
1. 80mm W201, W124, W202 early 4cyl models c220d, C180, i belive it's the smallest MB ever made
2. 90mm W124 300E, most early w124 models
3. 110mm later W124 300TD, some w126 models
4. 110mm W210 300TD, early E55AMG, some w140 and w220 models
5. 120mm W211, W212, W221, from 280CDI to S65AMG, biggest I have seen. Maybe later big engined models have even bigger.
100mm came from C250TD and later W124 models, I don't have that so it's missing from picture.
Same models but different years may have different sizes disks.
![[Image: IMG_5284_zpseiv8bzbn.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5284_zpseiv8bzbn.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5286_zpsy5lrg0et.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5286_zpsy5lrg0et.jpg.html)
RE: Reinforced guibos - Eric78 - 02-04-2015
(02-03-2015, 04:37 AM)erx(02-03-2015, 04:18 AM)Eric78Ok, what gearbox and differential are you using? I think stock w201 is 90mm which is quite small and weak.(02-02-2015, 04:50 AM)erx Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.
More specifically a 3 bolt w201 flex disc.
(02-02-2015, 07:52 PM)whipplem104 If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.
Only a 605 with an HX35, Custom driveshaft is about a grand & it means I'd have to have the car off the road for a while.
722.636, with a w202(c220) three bolt output if it fits the splines, if not I'll stick with the four bolt AMG 55 one that's on the trans now, the diff will most likely be a 190e Cosworth ASD.
The Driveshaft is w202 C250 turbo.
RE: Reinforced guibos - whipplem104 - 02-04-2015
You can get outputs that fit pretty much any pattern for the 722.6. You probably have a 90mm version on a c220. The 190 diff has a 90mm pattern. If you are planning on making much more than 300lb.ft of torque then I would get a larger differential from later clk amg cars and put a quaife or wavetrac in. Then upgrade the drive shaft with at least the larger pattern f/discs.
Remember when the driveshaft come loose it can come through the floor and kill you or at least do a lot of damage.
I have the 100mm pattern in my car and at around 400lb/ft of torque at the wheels with sticky tires I can twist up a brand new flex disc in one night at the drag strip and I have had the center support flex enough that the center u joint hit the seat belt bolts. So I am not doing anything more until a new custom one piece driveshaft is in my car.
RE: Reinforced guibos - raysorenson - 02-04-2015
I have a custom driveshaft in my W124 that has u-joints only. My clutch disc is sprung, single mass flywheel. I have poly diff mounts, poly subframe mounts. The torsional vibrations that occur under certain engine speeds and loads, which are worst in top gear, are horrendous. It sounds like a big diesel truck driveline. I'm going to cut off the u-joint a the diff and weld on a big flex disc flange. Hopefully one large flex disc will be enough to keep it from rattling my teeth out. The rear is probably the best place for a flex disc to come apart anyway.
RE: Reinforced guibos - erx - 02-04-2015
100mm is good for stock 2,5td, not STD. It's a lot thinner than w210 110mm or w211 120mm, hole diameter is only one factor. I recommend to take 4 bolted 120mm disks from scrapyard, if it's used also on 700lb/ft 65AMG it will hold that 400lb/ft with ease.
One important thing is that propshaft should be on right angle compared to gearbox and differential, so flexidisk is straight between flanges.
RE: Reinforced guibos - winmutt - 02-04-2015
Meyle catalog is a good source for all of these things, contains diagrams and measurements.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Eric78 - 02-05-2015
(02-04-2015, 09:15 AM)whipplem104 I have the 100mm pattern in my car and at around 400lb/ft of torque at the wheels with sticky tires I can twist up a brand new flex disc in one night at the drag stripI was looking at replacing the guibos with billet alloy ones with urethane inserts, that's why I asked about BMW sizes, Revshift has them for BMW.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Petar - 02-05-2015
Somebody here has already tried that it didn't work out well i think too much vibration
RE: Reinforced guibos - Druk - 02-05-2015
I have this behind an OM606/Getrag 717.450
![[Image: propshaft032_zps32f02000.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft032_zps32f02000.jpg.html)
and rear...
![[Image: propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg.html)
using custom adaptors...
![[Image: propshaft017_zps9ba9b32d.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft017_zps9ba9b32d.jpg.html)
and a one-piece 3" shaft and have to say that it's as smooth and un-noticeable as the original and although to be fair it's running a standard 606TD engine with minimal power upgrade it feels like it could handle a whole lot more.
.
RE: Reinforced guibos - raysorenson - 02-05-2015
717.450 is dual mass right? If so, that would explain it. Dual mass flywheels absorb torsional vibrations far better than a sprung clutch disc.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Druk - 02-05-2015
^ Yes, dual mass.
RE: Reinforced guibos - sassparilla_kid - 02-08-2015
Druk does your driveshaft have the center u-joint like stock or did you eliminate it?
RE: Reinforced guibos - Druk - 02-08-2015
(02-08-2015, 03:46 AM)sassparilla_kid Druk does your driveshaft have the center u-joint like stock or did you eliminate it?
Eliminated it. Gone. And the reason I had to do this is because my installation is way off alignment, maybe by as much as 1". What the driveshaft engineer did say (and he did a home visit to inspect) was that because of the length of shaft involved an extra wall thickness and dia pipe was required. Additional to that, the thing is stuffed full with some sort of cardboard which acts as an anti-resonator or vibration damper.
I did wonder at the spec of Ray's pipe and whether that might be at the root of his vibration problem
.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Petar - 02-08-2015
(02-05-2015, 05:44 AM)Druk ....
using custom adaptors...
.....
That rubber adaptor thingy looks really unusual. I wonder what is that for ??
My 209 D van has this style of flange
RE: Reinforced guibos - Druk - 02-08-2015
(02-08-2015, 06:41 AM)Petar That rubber adaptor thingy looks really unusual. I wonder what is that for ??
My 209 D van has this style of flange
That 'rubber adaptor' is a steel billet machined out on CNC mill then painted black (badly)
. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCP62uc_Cmc The thin steel plate mounted behind it is the rotor for the electric speedo pick-up.
![[Image: 2_zps6caef0d1.gif]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/2_zps6caef0d1.gif.html)
Did have a look at that what's on your van but cost was waaay too high and anyways still needed something to mate to 126 diff flange. Note: they're different sizes F&R.
![[Image: 1_zps1e656b4b.gif]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/1_zps1e656b4b.gif.html)
.
RE: Reinforced guibos - Petar - 02-08-2015
And the brainfart of the day award goes to...me
That speedo pickup is a really good idea
RE: Reinforced guibos - maxypriest - 08-14-2018
Originally on my W124 I had a 185mm diff with a 90mm 6 hole flex disc, the 6 speed manual gearbox had a 110mm 6 bolt one from a CLK. As has been suggested here the 110mm flex discs are very strong and should not fail, the 90mm ones will give up – they are a magnitude weaker.
I did infact build an alloy rubber bushed 90mm flex disc – however in the end I came up with a better plan.
I knew the prop/diff was the weak point in the drive line so rather than mess about (and to be honest if you want to do this properly you need to sort it right first time and unfortunately spend some cash) I fitted a 210mm 2.65 diff with a 110mm 8 hole flex disc and a modified SL500 prop. The SL500 prop has the 110mm flex disc ends AND (often forgotten about) a much larger UJ in the centre. It also has room for a larger centre bearing that JUST fits into the W124 tunnel.
Recon UJ, new CB, cut, shut and balanced I now have a drive line that is silent and vibration free. It’s also upto the 456ft/lbs of the engine.
All in I recon the diff and propshafts upgrade cost £700-800.
Now the drive shafts are the weak points… any experiences/knowledge of alternatives?
NB – I must unfortunately tell you all that DRUK died some months ago. Nice chap too.
RIP Derek.
RE: Reinforced guibos - atypicalguy - 08-20-2018
(08-14-2018, 08:42 AM)maxypriest Originally on my W124 I had a 185mm diff with a 90mm 6 hole flex disc, the 6 speed manual gearbox had a 110mm 6 bolt one from a CLK. As has been suggested here the 110mm flex discs are very strong and should not fail, the 90mm ones will give up – they are a magnitude weaker.I am on the same trajectory with the 1987 300TD
I did infact build an alloy rubber bushed 90mm flex disc – however in the end I came up with a better plan.
I knew the prop/diff was the weak point in the drive line so rather than mess about (and to be honest if you want to do this properly you need to sort it right first time and unfortunately spend some cash) I fitted a 210mm 2.65 diff with a 110mm 8 hole flex disc and a modified SL500 prop. The SL500 prop has the 110mm flex disc ends AND (often forgotten about) a much larger UJ in the centre. It also has room for a larger centre bearing that JUST fits into the W124 tunnel.
Recon UJ, new CB, cut, shut and balanced I now have a drive line that is silent and vibration free. It’s also upto the 456ft/lbs of the engine.
All in I recon the diff and propshafts upgrade cost £700-800.
Now the drive shafts are the weak points… any experiences/knowledge of alternatives?
NB – I must unfortunately tell you all that DRUK died some months ago. Nice chap too.
RIP Derek.
2.65 210mm diff from a 1991 500SL, which has the 4-bolt 110mm guibo/flange
Putting the wavetrac in now; in pieces on bench, waiting for new bearings and seals ATM from Tom Hanson.
v8 w124 sedan driveshaft
New 4 bolt prop flange for the transmission
Axle shafts from the 500SL, reconditioned.
Poly bushing set from Poland/Strongflex or -thane (can't remember).
V8w124 subframe (can keep the 500SL diff backing plate, which has the mounts spaced much further apart)
The ASR shafts are much larger than the non-ASR, but the axle length is a bit different also due to the sensor rings and different diff flange to flange dimension. People say they will work however.
Had the non-ASR shafts redone at cvjreman in Denver; will see if they hold together. Running a 722.3 and stock-ish rubber for now, so I don't expect any problems with either the guibos or the half shafts. whipplem104 was running some c63 amg black half shafts and hubs in the stock carriers; I have a set of those hubs and shafts if anyone wants to pay me what I have in them. It would require a newer differential though.
Sorry to hear about DRUK. RIP.
RE: Reinforced guibos - NZScott - 08-21-2018
I bit the bullet and bought the UJ adapter flanges from jagsthatrun. Looking around for a shop to build a driveshaft now. (kinda off topic)
RE: Reinforced guibos - atypicalguy - 08-22-2018
Seems like you need something to absorb vibration pulses from the motor if you are running a manual transmission. Per Ray's post above
RE: Reinforced guibos - NZScott - 08-23-2018
I might have to yes. i stall have rubber mounts in the back though. I've been de-sensitised lately from driving a '75 HJ45 around for a while with no mod cons at all...
RE: Reinforced guibos - maxypriest - 08-28-2018
Dunno whether its of interest - however I have fitted a DPUK anti jerk kit that has smoothed the jerking out of the drivetrain, so if you are going for a solid UJ set up it would be a worthwhile upgrade. I have some vids on youtube - my channel is 'Maximilian Boost'.
RE: Reinforced guibos - atypicalguy - 09-22-2019
(08-14-2018, 08:42 AM)maxypriest Originally on my W124 I had a 185mm diff with a 90mm 6 hole flex disc, the 6 speed manual gearbox had a 110mm 6 bolt one from a CLK. As has been suggested here the 110mm flex discs are very strong and should not fail, the 90mm ones will give up – they are a magnitude weaker.
I did infact build an alloy rubber bushed 90mm flex disc – however in the end I came up with a better plan.
I knew the prop/diff was the weak point in the drive line so rather than mess about (and to be honest if you want to do this properly you need to sort it right first time and unfortunately spend some cash) I fitted a 210mm 2.65 diff with a 110mm 8 hole flex disc and a modified SL500 prop. The SL500 prop has the 110mm flex disc ends AND (often forgotten about) a much larger UJ in the centre. It also has room for a larger centre bearing that JUST fits into the W124 tunnel.
Recon UJ, new CB, cut, shut and balanced I now have a drive line that is silent and vibration free. It’s also upto the 456ft/lbs of the engine.
All in I recon the diff and propshafts upgrade cost £700-800.
Now the drive shafts are the weak points… any experiences/knowledge of alternatives?
NB – I must unfortunately tell you all that DRUK died some months ago. Nice chap too.
RIP Derek.
This is the best solution maxy but the 722.3 auto has a transmission mount that will not clear the 120mm flex disc. So there is no way to run the 8 hole guibo up front. Just have to go with the biggest 6 hole one from the w210 300d.