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Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-18-2015
Ok guys. Are there actually no LSD diffs stock on any Mercedes?
I would love to have a W202 C43 AMG or C36 AMG diff really
I found a W202 C32 AMG diff for a good price (don't know the final gearing though) and I also found a W210 E55 AMG (2.82) for a decent price.
Do the AMGs really drive with an open diff???
RE: Differential - Duncansport - 01-18-2015
(01-18-2015, 05:35 AM)F.R.A.S Ok guys. Are there actually no LSD diffs stock on any Mercedes?
I would love to have a W202 C43 AMG or C36 AMG diff really
I found a W202 C32 AMG diff for a good price (don't know the final gearing though) and I also found a W210 E55 AMG (2.82) for a decent price.
Do the AMGs really drive with an open diff???
The only MB's with LSD were the 190E 16Vs and some cars came with the ASD locking diff.
If you get a diff from a C55/C32 or Dodge/Chrysler Magnum,300C, chalanger you can install a gear style lsd quaffe (spelling?)
We installed a few of these into W203 AMG cars
RE: Differential - raidaru - 01-18-2015
(01-18-2015, 05:35 AM)F.R.A.S Ok guys. Are there actually no LSD diffs stock on any Mercedes?w126 also has LSD on some versions, but I guess that's too old............. and about quaife diffs go to birdsauto website, quaife staff recomended them for MB LSD
I would love to have a W202 C43 AMG or C36 AMG diff really
I found a W202 C32 AMG diff for a good price (don't know the final gearing though) and I also found a W210 E55 AMG (2.82) for a decent price.
Do the AMGs really drive with an open diff???
RE: Differential - EvoPeter - 01-18-2015
Quaife have the Torsen LSD drop-in for MB.
For me i went with an modified ASD diff with Elbe LSD block to stiffen the clutch.
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-18-2015
Thanks guys, might be a good option then. Wondering if they fit across...
found THIS
...or if I need the correct differential.
Need the lowest gearing available and can't really search every bit ever made for the w202.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-18-2015
Need the lowest gear available as in a numerically high ratio? I get confused easily on this stuff.
Something to keep in mind with Merc rear ends is that ring gear carrier changes with ratios. A 2.65 gear takes one carrier and a 3.27 takes another. It has to do with how far away the ring gear teeth needs to be from the centerline of the pinion. Mercedes moves the ring gear flange in and out where other manufacturers just vary the thickness of the ring gear. Just verify that the carrier you get will work with the ratio you want.
What size ring gear does the W202 use? 185?
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-18-2015
3,86 needs 3,86 propshaft revolutions to do one wheel revolution.
A 3,07 diff only need 3,07 prop revs for one wheel rev = higher top speed, lower gearing.
Ok, thanks, so that's why there are different Quaifes for every model. I have a spare c250tdt differential in the shop, hope that is a 3,07 then I'll use that. If I don't weld it I'll give quaife an e-mail and see what they have for me.
(01-18-2015, 02:12 PM)raysorenson Need the lowest gear available as in a numerically high ratio? I get confused easily on this stuff.
Something to keep in mind with Merc rear ends is that ring gear carrier changes with ratios. A 2.65 gear takes one carrier and a 3.27 takes another. It has to do with how far away the ring gear teeth needs to be from the centerline of the pinion. Mercedes moves the ring gear flange in and out where other manufacturers just vary the thickness of the ring gear. Just verify that the carrier you get will work with the ratio you want.
What size ring gear does the W202 use? 185?
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-18-2015
Here's a list of MB LSD stuff that's available along with a bunch of other info. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/differentials.pdf
Only a few of the MB LSD carriers are priced reasonably.
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-19-2015
Thanks man. Will check that later today!
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-19-2015
the w126, r107 and w116 was available with LSD, like the 450SE 6.9 that "always" came with a 2.65LSD
the 2.24 in the 500SE/SEC and 2.47 in 380SE, and 3.07 from a 450SE w116/r107
might be possible to move a 2.47LSD internal to a newer housing, but il leave that hanging.
The LSD differentials is kind of expensive thou, ive had the luck of obtaining a couple of those, but still looking for a 3.07 or 2.82 to get the perfect ratio. you dont buy those from a scrapyard, (about 8000sek or 1000usd) compared to private that can be anywhere from 800sek/100usd)
the w201 2.5dt had 2.65, the absolutely lowest ratio in the w124, w201, w210 and probably w202 to,
2.65 is what the 300tdt had to, the E300D had 2.82 al of those the smal housing.
i dont know how good the differential from a w124 and w210 will fit the w202 thou...
the late 320/300CE had the larger housing, if the w124 differentials is transferable, it might be worth getting one of those, (and perhaps easier/cheaper quaife)
the 250tdt w202 that i scraped was a manual, and had a 3.64 or something differential, so no luck with good ratio there unfortunately, dont know what the automatic had.
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-19-2015
Thanks. After reviewing Rays PDF I would love to have something like the 2,65 or 2,82. Will look some. Good to know they are all small housing diffs, should fit across then.
(01-19-2015, 03:32 AM)swampmonkey the w126, r107 and w116 was available with LSD, like the 450SE 6.9 that "always" came with a 2.65LSD
the 2.24 in the 500SE/SEC and 2.47 in 380SE, and 3.07 from a 450SE w116/r107
might be possible to move a 2.47LSD internal to a newer housing, but il leave that hanging.
The LSD differentials is kind of expensive thou, ive had the luck of obtaining a couple of those, but still looking for a 3.07 or 2.82 to get the perfect ratio. you dont buy those from a scrapyard, (about 8000sek or 1000usd) compared to private that can be anywhere from 800sek/100usd)
the w201 2.5dt had 2.65, the absolutely lowest ratio in the w124, w201, w210 and probably w202 to,
2.65 is what the 300tdt had to, the E300D had 2.82 al of those the smal housing.
i dont know how good the differential from a w124 and w210 will fit the w202 thou...
the late 320/300CE had the larger housing, if the w124 differentials is transferable, it might be worth getting one of those, (and perhaps easier/cheaper quaife)
the 250tdt w202 that i scraped was a manual, and had a 3.64 or something differential, so no luck with good ratio there unfortunately, dont know what the automatic had.
Found a 2,65 diff named "big diff" but it's from a w201. Might be 185mm but can be a 210mm
185mm LSD HERE
and
210mm LSD HERE
RE: Differential - lodin92 - 01-19-2015
w201 "big diff" is only 185mm, like the mid size of w124.
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-19-2015
Thanks, great. Then I'll buy that one.
(01-19-2015, 01:24 PM)lodin92 w201 "big diff" is only 185mm, like the mid size of w124.
RE: Differential - barrote - 01-19-2015
the w201 2.5dt had 2.65, the absolutely lowest ratio in the w124, w201, w210 and probably w202 to,
2.65 is what the 300tdt had to, the E300D had 2.82 al of those the smal housing.
i dont know how good the differential from a w124 and w210 will fit the w202 thou...
the late 320/300CE had the larger housing, if the w124 differentials is transferable, it might be worth getting one of those, (and perhaps easier/cheaper quaife)
the 250tdt w202 that i scraped was a manual, and had a 3.64 or something differential, so no luck with good ratio there unfortunately, dont know what the automatic had.
[/quote]
hy there, usually the 2.65 and 2.82 dif´s, found in the w124 fit the w201 and w202, and some w203.
those i have seen are big case with the larger conections. depending on wich car u want to fit it, the trick is at the transmission sizes.
for the 717 gear boxes the 2.82 is very good.
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-19-2015
(01-19-2015, 05:05 PM)barrote hy there, usually the 2.65 and 2.82 dif´s, found in the w124 fit the w201 and w202, and some w203.
those i have seen are big case with the larger conections. depending on wich car u want to fit it, the trick is at the transmission sizes.
for the 717 gear boxes the 2.82 is very good.
transmission sizes?
the 717 gearboxes are a bit different to, some made for heaploads of power, and some not, some 1:1 in fifth, while other is about 0.8, or what do you mean?
as far as i know there are different sizes in the yokes/flanges, might be worth checking into that to, like the 250tdt w202 has the larger one,
RE: Differential - barrote - 01-20-2015
(01-19-2015, 05:53 PM)swampmonkey(01-19-2015, 05:05 PM)barrote hy there, usually the 2.65 and 2.82 dif´s, found in the w124 fit the w201 and w202, and some w203.
those i have seen are big case with the larger conections. depending on wich car u want to fit it, the trick is at the transmission sizes.
for the 717 gear boxes the 2.82 is very good.
transmission sizes?
the 717 gearboxes are a bit different to, some made for heaploads of power, and some not, some 1:1 in fifth, while other is about 0.8, or what do you mean?
as far as i know there are different sizes in the yokes/flanges, might be worth checking into that to, like the 250tdt w202 has the larger one,
well i did not check all of them , 717.411/413/416 share same gears. diff inside yes they have but nothing special, is just one that uses a 2 race bearing or the sincronizer shifter wich is less prone to play.
recently i did reconstructed my 717.413 wich is for dual mass, and did roam about scrap yards and found all i needed from diff gearboxes.
one thing i´m sure, in the 717.40X series i belive were made for gas cars, and on the 717.43X were made for special requests, like the E300 or the 202, 250td. wich are tq monsters. what maters is wether u have interchangeble gears or not, the design of the 717. does not hold too much, as i explained above. no one think that a .45X is beter than a .404, is the same design.
for instance, the fix train shaft has the front (the atack) carrier gear runing into the prymary shaft, wich is heat seated on the shaft, well that is ok but for a double tq engine the forces will reflect across the 3rd gearing and the gear will slip from place. actually to get it out not even 10 tons are nedded.
and a few details wich makes the gearbox week.
In my next build, i will use a 716, wich is expensive but has be.
regards.
RE: Differential - Duncansport - 01-20-2015
(01-19-2015, 05:05 PM)barrote the w201 2.5dt had 2.65, the absolutely lowest ratio in the w124, w201, w210 and probably w202 to,
2.65 is what the 300tdt had to, the E300D had 2.82 al of those the smal housing.
i dont know how good the differential from a w124 and w210 will fit the w202 thou...
the late 320/300CE had the larger housing, if the w124 differentials is transferable, it might be worth getting one of those, (and perhaps easier/cheaper quaife)
the 250tdt w202 that i scraped was a manual, and had a 3.64 or something differential, so no luck with good ratio there unfortunately, dont know what the automatic had.
hy there, usually the 2.65 and 2.82 dif´s, found in the w124 fit the w201 and w202, and some w203.
those i have seen are big case with the larger conections. depending on wich car u want to fit it, the trick is at the transmission sizes.
for the 717 gear boxes the 2.82 is very good.
[/quote]
124.034 has a 2.24 ratio. Have one sitting in my yard. Very tall indeed
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-20-2015
I'm a man off action
So wrote yesterday that I gonna buy that diff and so I did.Hope it will work with the smallest amount off hustle possible.
![[Image: 210381-66e71da388726aa544cb59c3b3dd1682.jpg]](http://www1.garaget.org/gallery/images/211/210381/210381-66e71da388726aa544cb59c3b3dd1682.jpg)
RE: Differential - barrote - 01-20-2015
thats a man in there. it will fit ,at max u have to go for a set of transmissions.
good luck
for the other fellow duncansauto, in europe we use man gear. 2.24 is for auto. so 722.1 like that
in my opinion too high for road driving.
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-20-2015
(01-20-2015, 05:55 AM)barrote(01-19-2015, 05:53 PM)swampmonkey(01-19-2015, 05:05 PM)barrote hy there, usually the 2.65 and 2.82 dif´s, found in the w124 fit the w201 and w202, and some w203.
those i have seen are big case with the larger conections. depending on wich car u want to fit it, the trick is at the transmission sizes.
for the 717 gear boxes the 2.82 is very good.
transmission sizes?
the 717 gearboxes are a bit different to, some made for heaploads of power, and some not, some 1:1 in fifth, while other is about 0.8, or what do you mean?
as far as i know there are different sizes in the yokes/flanges, might be worth checking into that to, like the 250tdt w202 has the larger one,
well i did not check all of them , 717.411/413/416 share same gears. diff inside yes they have but nothing special, is just one that uses a 2 race bearing or the sincronizer shifter wich is less prone to play.
recently i did reconstructed my 717.413 wich is for dual mass, and did roam about scrap yards and found all i needed from diff gearboxes.
one thing i´m sure, in the 717.40X series i belive were made for gas cars, and on the 717.43X were made for special requests, like the E300 or the 202, 250td. wich are tq monsters. what maters is wether u have interchangeble gears or not, the design of the 717. does not hold too much, as i explained above. no one think that a .45X is beter than a .404, is the same design.
for instance, the fix train shaft has the front (the atack) carrier gear runing into the prymary shaft, wich is heat seated on the shaft, well that is ok but for a double tq engine the forces will reflect across the 3rd gearing and the gear will slip from place. actually to get it out not even 10 tons are nedded.
and a few details wich makes the gearbox week.
In my next build, i will use a 716, wich is expensive but has be.
regards.
the 717.400 came in the w123 with the om617 or m110 (or other early right side starter engines)
the 717.401 for the 200/230E w123
the 717.404 for the 2.3 16v
the 717.450 for the m104
the 717.460 is what came on my w202 250tdt, not 43x
why shouldnt there be any difference? you say the 717 gearboxes are good with 2.82, they do have quite different ratios, dont they? 1:1 in fifth vs 0.8isch
the 450, 401 and 404 is getrag gearboxes, which i am pretty sure the 717.430 isnt.
people crack the 450 with 350hp, the 430 cracks before even getting to the dyno, while the 404 and 401 sustain a lot more power.
the 401 dynoed with om606 and 530hp, it might be weak, and have it flaws, but, i would like to hear of a 717.430 getting anywhere near that, and still live for thousand kilometers later.
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-21-2015
Ok so this is based on Automatic cars all over.
My new 2.65 gearing will do 203mph @ 6000rpm on 5th gear and 166mph on 4th gear @ 6000rpm.
That's a little high actually
The 3,07 would have been better
(01-18-2015, 06:54 PM)raysorenson Here's a list of MB LSD stuff that's available along with a bunch of other info. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/differentials.pdf
Only a few of the MB LSD carriers are priced reasonably.
RE: Differential - barrote - 01-21-2015
(01-20-2015, 07:50 PM)swampmonkey(01-20-2015, 05:55 AM)barrote(01-19-2015, 05:53 PM)swampmonkey transmission sizes?
the 717 gearboxes are a bit different to, some made for heaploads of power, and some not, some 1:1 in fifth, while other is about 0.8, or what do you mean?
as far as i know there are different sizes in the yokes/flanges, might be worth checking into that to, like the 250tdt w202 has the larger one,
well i did not check all of them , 717.411/413/416 share same gears. diff inside yes they have but nothing special, is just one that uses a 2 race bearing or the sincronizer shifter wich is less prone to play.
recently i did reconstructed my 717.413 wich is for dual mass, and did roam about scrap yards and found all i needed from diff gearboxes.
one thing i´m sure, in the 717.40X series i belive were made for gas cars, and on the 717.43X were made for special requests, like the E300 or the 202, 250td. wich are tq monsters. what maters is wether u have interchangeble gears or not, the design of the 717. does not hold too much, as i explained above. no one think that a .45X is beter than a .404, is the same design.
for instance, the fix train shaft has the front (the atack) carrier gear runing into the prymary shaft, wich is heat seated on the shaft, well that is ok but for a double tq engine the forces will reflect across the 3rd gearing and the gear will slip from place. actually to get it out not even 10 tons are nedded.
and a few details wich makes the gearbox week.
In my next build, i will use a 716, wich is expensive but has be.
regards.
the 717.400 came in the w123 with the om617 or m110 (or other early right side starter engines)
the 717.401 for the 200/230E w123
the 717.404 for the 2.3 16v
the 717.450 for the m104
the 717.460 is what came on my w202 250tdt, not 43x
why shouldnt there be any difference? you say the 717 gearboxes are good with 2.82, they do have quite different ratios, dont they? 1:1 in fifth vs 0.8isch
the 450, 401 and 404 is getrag gearboxes, which i am pretty sure the 717.430 isnt.
people crack the 450 with 350hp, the 430 cracks before even getting to the dyno, while the 404 and 401 sustain a lot more power.
the 401 dynoed with om606 and 530hp, it might be weak, and have it flaws, but, i would like to hear of a 717.430 getting anywhere near that, and still live for thousand kilometers later.
ok , take it!!!
u also know that most of them fit several engines. i can tell u from the cars i have owned
E 250 94 sold in france 717.413, 3.62 diff
w 124 coupe M 111 220 sold in Portugal 717.413, 3.62 diff
w 202 220 717.416 dont know were it was sold,
w 124 260 m 104 717.411 diff unknown
190 D 2.0, 87 717.410 diff 3.87
w124 601 86, 717.410 diff 3.62
and few others i have scraped, never seen a 43X or 45X or 40X
i´ve seen 43X for sale at ratail used parts. never a 45X at least in here.
a small correction , inside the box they are all the same no tricks no kicks, a 404 brakes the same as 46X as u say, if abused.
that design, does not go far, the same with the 616, prety much the same design, but is quite stronguer.
regards.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-21-2015
2.65 works great with a .404 and shitty 4 speed auto.
RE: Differential - raidaru - 01-21-2015
(01-21-2015, 06:43 AM)F.R.A.S Ok so this is based on Automatic cars all over.Do you plan on breaking some local speed record brah?
My new 2.65 gearing will do 203mph @ 6000rpm on 5th gear and 166mph on 4th gear @ 6000rpm.
That's a little high actually
The 3,07 would have been better
(01-18-2015, 06:54 PM)raysorenson Here's a list of MB LSD stuff that's available along with a bunch of other info. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/differentials.pdf
Only a few of the MB LSD carriers are priced reasonably.
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-21-2015
(01-21-2015, 06:43 AM)F.R.A.S Ok so this is based on Automatic cars all over.
My new 2.65 gearing will do 203mph @ 6000rpm on 5th gear and 166mph on 4th gear @ 6000rpm.
That's a little high actually
The 3,07 would have been better
yep, althou it would work great on the 717.404 and 717.450 gearbox.
getting a differential with that low ratio isnt exactly kind on the gearbox either if my logic is correct, i had a 2.47LSD and thats when i cracked the 717.401 gearbox, and any gear except 2nd and 3rd was useless on the track, doing 60-160km/h...
theoretical top speed would have been 350km/h or 220mph, not something you do in a slightly lowered w123... althou 1600rpm at 100km/h is kind a sweet when driving to/from track
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-21-2015
Does anyone know the ratio for a 1995 W124 E300 Diesel. OM606.910, with 722.3.
I assume it is the large diff because of the last year W124.
I am doing a 722.6 with my 606.962 swap and want to keep a similar final drive ratio but i will need a stronger diff and want LSD.
RE: Differential - Petar - 01-21-2015
1995 E300 doesn't use the the 722.3 , it uses the much weaker 722.4. Russian EPC says that it it's 2.87. For reference 5 speed manual E300 has a 3.46 ratio.
Wagon E300 diesel auto/manual uses 3.07/3.67 respectively.
Not sure how strong that diff is, the non turbo 606 has only 210 NM of torque stock.
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-21-2015
(01-21-2015, 04:16 PM)Petar 1995 E300 doesn't use the the 722.3 , it uses the much weaker 722.4. Russian EPC says that it it's 2.87. For reference 5 speed manual E300 has a 3.46 ratio.
Wagon E300 diesel auto/manual uses 3.07/3.67 respectively.
Not sure how strong that diff is, the non turbo 606 has only 210 NM of torque stock.
Ahh my mistake, from what info i found only the W201 and W202 had the 722.4 i thought all W124 has the 722.3. Regardless that gearbox will be gone.
Yeah im sure its pretty weak. One of the W202 options should work right? Like a 3.07 which will fit into my carrier and then get a Quaife LSD? Or will i need extra parts to convert to LSD outside of the Quaife unit.
That or i was thinking of getting something from a ford thunderbird or mustang terminator, we have a lot of american stuff cheap and available in the USA and a ford 8 inch or bigger would hold a lot of power.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-21-2015
Mr_Robs,
I work on the 8.8 diff more than all the other diffs in Fords put together and multiplied by 3. It's heavy too, especially when you consider it's torque limits. Just sayin.
Personally, being a weight weenie, I like the little 185 diff. That housing is built tough and there are some crazy horsepower builds using them.
It's looking like the 2.87 only came in the 185mm flavor but an MB LSD carrier for that ratio is a hefty 1920 USD. Go to a 3.07/3.27 MB LSD carrier and mbpartsworld is selling them for......wait for it.......
235usd. W.T.F.?!?!
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-21-2015
(01-21-2015, 07:23 PM)raysorenson Mr_Robs,
I work on the 8.8 diff more than all the other diffs in Fords put together and multiplied by 3. It's heavy too, especially when you consider it's torque limits. Just sayin.
Personally, being a weight weenie, I like the little 185 diff. That housing is built tough and there are some crazy horsepower builds using them.
It's looking like the 2.87 only came in the 185mm flavor but an MB LSD carrier for that ratio is a hefty 1920 USD. Go to a 3.07/3.27 MB LSD carrier and mbpartsworld is selling them for......wait for it.......
235usd. W.T.F.?!?!
True! the weight will be a big increase.. plus the cost of fab to have it mounted, new driftshaft etc.
Yeah thats what i saw in one of the spreadsheets posted here, yikes!! Plus since I'm already 210mm the 3.07 should be a straight forward swap right? Great price and then all i need is the Quaife unit to drop in and we are good to go?
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-21-2015
You're 185. The 2.87 is 185 only. That $235 carrier is from a 190e 16v, which is 185 too.
The Quaife LSD carrier replaces the MB LSD carrier. Can't put 2 ring gear carriers in one diff! To summarize: get a 3.07 diff, drop in the cheap carrier or drop coin on the quaife and you've got your LSD fix.
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-22-2015
(01-21-2015, 07:49 PM)raysorenson You're 185. The 2.87 is 185 only. That $235 carrier is from a 190e 16v, which is 185 too.
The Quaife LSD carrier replaces the MB LSD carrier. Can't put 2 ring gear carriers in one diff! To summarize: get a 3.07 diff, drop in the cheap carrier or drop coin on the quaife and you've got your LSD fix.
Ahh sorry i assumed i was the larger based on year. Awesome, thats readily available.
Haha yeah, i wasnt sure if the quaife unit came with a carrier or not, nor was i sure if the 3.07 diff was LSD, open or ASD. I'm pretty positive ill be going the 3.07 w/ 16v carrier
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-22-2015
3.07 can come as open, asd or lsd. All ASD's are LSD as they have 2 separate components, the LSD carrier and the hydraulic locking units. For example, I made a deal with my wife to take the LSD carrier out of her 2.65 ASD car and swap it for my open diff in exchange for *. The electronic/hydraulic part of her ASD will continue to function normally, but she won't have LSD anymore.
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-22-2015
What are you saying here Ray!?
I have an Audi 80 quattro and I have a button between the seats for locking the rear diff. When in locked position it's just like a welded diff... Is that something I can build in a Mercedes with stock stuff from an ASD diff?
What cars have the ASD diff as stock? Only 4-matic???
(01-22-2015, 11:04 AM)raysorenson 3.07 can come as open, asd or lsd. All ASD's are LSD as they have 2 separate components, the LSD carrier and the hydraulic locking units. For example, I made a deal with my wife to take the LSD carrier out of her 2.65 ASD car and swap it for my open diff in exchange for *. The electronic/hydraulic part of her ASD will continue to function normally, but she won't have LSD anymore.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-22-2015
ASD came on RWD's and 4matic.
It's a LOT of stuff to add to your car if you want to install the complete system on your car. I was given the green light to swap the entire ASD system to my car but I'm not that interested. One guy installed a manual hydraulic pump, like an e-brake lever to lock his diff. I like this much better than a complete install.
Here's his how-to on making an ASD locker.
http://www.w124performance.com/images/W124_diffs/ASD_Differential_Retrofit.pdf
Another idea for an ASD locker is to install the tandem P/S pump and use an electrical switch to actuate the ASD solenoid. This keeps you from having to pump up any hydraulics, but it's a more complicated install.
Here's a .pdf of Mercedes propaganda that describes the function of ASD
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/ASD-ASR-4MATIC-ADS.pdf
another
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/ASD-ASR-4MATIC.pdf
RE: Differential - bruno_pinho - 01-22-2015
w124 ASD diff bolt into a w202?
That car will be the difference with this number 124351230?
They told me it is 3:07 ...
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-24-2015
(01-22-2015, 11:04 AM)raysorenson 3.07 can come as open, asd or lsd. All ASD's are LSD as they have 2 separate components, the LSD carrier and the hydraulic locking units. For example, I made a deal with my wife to take the LSD carrier out of her 2.65 ASD car and swap it for my open diff in exchange for *. The electronic/hydraulic part of her ASD will continue to function normally, but she won't have LSD anymore.
So when im looking for diffs i could find a 3.07 LSD or ASD? and then remove the hydraulic component of the ASD to create a "normal" LSD?
Just wondering what exact parts i need to search for when pairing it with a 16v carrier. I dont have any desire to create an on off locking diff setup with the ASD hydraulics, i just want a traditional LSD setup.
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-24-2015
(01-24-2015, 03:30 PM)Mr_Robs So when im looking for diffs i could find a 3.07 LSD or ASD? and then remove the hydraulic component of the ASD to create a "normal" LSD?
Just wondering what exact parts i need to search for when pairing it with a 16v carrier. I dont have any desire to create an on off locking diff setup with the ASD hydraulics, i just want a traditional LSD setup.
i dont think the ASD diffs work as a normal LSD without the hydraulics connected, the 16v diff is conisidered valuable as far as i know due to the fact that it is both a LSD, with say 30%lockup, and then 100% with the ASD...
without the full lockup, the diff wont live long anyhow if you got more power..
i might be very wrong on a lot of this, but thats the information ive been given.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-24-2015
(01-24-2015, 03:30 PM)Mr_Robs So when im looking for diffs i could find a 3.07 LSD or ASD? and then remove the hydraulic component of the ASD to create a "normal" LSD?
Yes.
Quote:Just wondering what exact parts i need to search for when pairing it with a 16v carrier. I dont have any desire to create an on off locking diff setup with the ASD hydraulics, i just want a traditional LSD setup.
The carrier is all you need if you have a regular 3.07 or 3.27 185mm diff to put it into. Of course, some rebuild parts would be good. If the new carrier doesn't have bearings on it, you'll need to press them on and they have to come with new races. If you use used bearings (so ghetto...), they have to stay with their original races. Maybe new bolts for the ring gear too. I recommend you avoid messing with the pinion bearings or pinion seal.
Buy a new carrier. You can't even replace the clutches in a used one for what a whole new one costs.
I posted a little bad info earlier. The hydraulic part on asd just squishes the LSD clutches together real hard so if you put an open diff in an ASD housing, it probably won't lock much at all.
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-24-2015
(01-24-2015, 05:53 PM)raysorenson(01-24-2015, 03:30 PM)Mr_Robs So when im looking for diffs i could find a 3.07 LSD or ASD? and then remove the hydraulic component of the ASD to create a "normal" LSD?
Yes.
Quote:Just wondering what exact parts i need to search for when pairing it with a 16v carrier. I dont have any desire to create an on off locking diff setup with the ASD hydraulics, i just want a traditional LSD setup.
The carrier is all you need if you have a regular 3.07 or 3.27 185mm diff to put it into. Of course, some rebuild parts would be good. If the new carrier doesn't have bearings on it, you'll need to press them on and they have to come with new races. If you use used bearings (so ghetto...), they have to stay with their original races. Maybe new bolts for the ring gear too. I recommend you avoid messing with the pinion bearings or pinion seal.
Buy a new carrier. You can't even replace the clutches in a used one for what a whole new one costs.
I posted a little bad info earlier. The hydraulic part on asd just squishes the LSD clutches together real hard so if you put an open diff in an ASD housing, it probably won't lock much at all.
Hmm okay so new carrier, that site you posted earlier is that the best place to buy from? Or do they just sell used stuff. Would that be a good source for a diff too?
I'm surprised there are basically no diffs on ebay, i think i found 1 C280 3.07 diff but thats open im sure.
No worries, i wouldnt be using an open diff housing, ill get the 16v one.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-25-2015
I'm calling the case the housing, which is not specific to LSD or open carriers. Only the ASD housings are different to mount the hydraulics. So the 16v housing is just a regular housing.
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 12:14 AM)raysorenson I'm calling the case the housing, which is not specific to LSD or open carriers. Only the ASD housings are different to mount the hydraulics. So the 16v housing is just a regular housing.
Totally lost sight of why you suggested a new 16v housing. It was so i would have fresh seals and bearings not because i actually need a 16v housing.
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 12:14 AM)raysorenson I'm calling the case the housing, which is not specific to LSD or open carriers. Only the ASD housings are different to mount the hydraulics. So the 16v housing is just a regular housing.
my brother has ASD on his 16v diffs.. they might be just plain LSD thou, i dont know, his car a 1989 i think
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 08:05 AM)swampmonkey my brother has ASD on his 16v diffs.. they might be just plain LSD thou, i dont know, his car a 1989 i think
I have an '87 16v diff on a shelf in the garage that's not ASD. I think ASD was added as an option later, SLS too. Regardless, EPC does show the 201.034 diff was available without ASD. The cossie was intended to be a homologated race car and ASD does nothing to get your around a track faster.
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 08:53 AM)raysorenson(01-25-2015, 08:05 AM)swampmonkey my brother has ASD on his 16v diffs.. they might be just plain LSD thou, i dont know, his car a 1989 i think
I have an '87 16v diff on a shelf in the garage that's not ASD. I think ASD was added as an option later, SLS too. Regardless, EPC does show the 201.034 diff was available without ASD. The cossie was intended to be a homologated race car and ASD does nothing to get your around a track faster.
it was not a "you are wrong" but a, it might not be an open house too
RE: Differential - Mr_Robs - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 08:05 AM)swampmonkey(01-25-2015, 12:14 AM)raysorenson I'm calling the case the housing, which is not specific to LSD or open carriers. Only the ASD housings are different to mount the hydraulics. So the 16v housing is just a regular housing.
my brother has ASD on his 16v diffs.. they might be just plain LSD thou, i dont know, his car a 1989 i think
We only got the cossies for 86/87 here in the USA so i think we are safe to assume ours dont have ASD. Good to know though incase someone is buying from europe to check that option wasnt added! The more you know!
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-25-2015
(01-25-2015, 02:29 PM)swampmonkey it was not a "you are wrong" but a, it might not be an open house too
EPC says 1243510605 is the housing part number for both the 201.034, minus ASD, and the 124.131, the 300d minus ASD. The 201.034 only came with LSD, the 124.131 only came w/open diff, unless equipped w/ASD. Both cars came with gears ranging from 3.27 to 2.65, so one case fits all ratios. Settled?
RE: Differential - swampmonkey - 01-26-2015
(01-25-2015, 03:24 PM)Mr_Robs(01-25-2015, 08:05 AM)swampmonkey(01-25-2015, 12:14 AM)raysorenson I'm calling the case the housing, which is not specific to LSD or open carriers. Only the ASD housings are different to mount the hydraulics. So the 16v housing is just a regular housing.
my brother has ASD on his 16v diffs.. they might be just plain LSD thou, i dont know, his car a 1989 i think
We only got the cossies for 86/87 here in the USA so i think we are safe to assume ours dont have ASD. Good to know though incase someone is buying from europe to check that option wasnt added! The more you know!
double checked, its a 1987 201.034 with ASD, hydraulic connection, as has his second diff from the same year.
the states might almost never have had the ASD thou, you have been different than europe before, (like almost never had LSD differentials on the gen1 w126) its a big world, with different ideas of what is neccesary, powerwindows or LSD/ASD
RE: Differential - F.R.A.S - 01-27-2015
Ok fellow dieselheads.
There are different LSDs for almost every gearing. My question then is: What a heck is different? Is it ONLY the bolt pattern (smaller and larger sprocket // can't remember the name)?
Or is it anything else??? The bolt pattern I can fix easy if it just that... I only have one spare diff so I can't compare. But I sure would like to get a used diff for free and check it out.
RE: Differential - raysorenson - 01-27-2015
The flange that the ring gear bolts to has different spacing L to R.