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+--- Thread: Weight (/showthread.php?tid=621)
Weight - ForcedInduction - 08-23-2009
This is my "Official certified scale weight" with a freshly full fuel tank and no people or cargo.
Front: 1,740 lbs
Rear: 1,560 lbs
Total: 3,300 lbs
I removed 200lbs from the front by removing the battery, A/C compressor, HVAC systems, passenger seat and swapping the driver seat for the Galant seat, and added 80lbs to the rear by installing the battery there. For a total of 120lbs below stock.
RE: Weight - kamel - 08-25-2009
I know it sounds like BS, but while I had my '78 gutted, with only driver/passenger seat, dash, and door panels remaining, I weighed in at 2980 at AV equipment rental. I did remove the bumpers which may be "cheating". haha
Congrats on the diet results.
RE: Weight - CID Vicious - 09-04-2009
Interesting. Any pics of these cars sans bumpers? Hell, Beetle owners do it all the time. Maybe a set of Beetle-style T-bars could work? Would drop a lot of weight off of the worst areas of the car for it to be in. Thing is, though, these cars stock survive accidents amazingly well, I guess there would be a trade-off there. Might even catch the attention of cops, many municipalities are low on money and tickets provide income for them. I like the stealth of the W123, essentially the same as driving a Volvo - pretty much invisible to cops. I'd like to keep it that way. It's a Mercedes the ghetto crowd really never took to, so unlike, say, a Honda Civic, or a flashier Mercedes model, there's nothing to draw a pig's eye. There's no real 'negative profile' for the car. I wonder if the missing bumpers would be enough to be noticed, or does it look subtle enough to get away with?
You could probably lose weight by switching to a smaller battery. I've been driving my 240D for six months, cold and hot weather, with what I'd call the 'regular' sized standard car battery. Depending on the specifications, maybe even a Honda Civic or Miata battery might work, at least in the summer. If you can pony up about 200 bucks for a battery, the Odyssey is very lightweight.
I might look at utilizing some Plexiglas, the windows are flat enough to get away with it and I had an idea to minimize scratching, and perhaps even allowing the 'restoration' of the window surface after awhile: tinting both sides of the Plexiglas. It would prevent the 'glas from getting scratched and possibly block enough UV to keep them from getting milky. Get really tricky and you can convert them to regulator-less operation (either fixing them in place for the rear doors or with lightweight straps and fixers to facilitate removing the regulators for weight loss).
Lightest seats I've seen, and which hold up really well in cloth form, are MR2 seats. They're deeper buckets than our seats but not Recaro deep, which doesn't fit my 6'2" frame very well, or at least not all models, and are impossible to sleep in should I drive a long distance and want to take a nap at a rest area, for example. Cloth, non-heated Recaro seats from an 80's Jetta GLI proved surprisingly heavy. And people don't necessarily view them as an 'upgrade' so they don't command the same prices Recaros and seats like that do.
For simplicity, reliability, and weight, I want to convert my sunroof to wagon-style operation, or just remove the motor since it's closed and doesn't leak. I've thought of having a metal shop replicate the shape of the top of the stock steel sunroof panel in aluminum, fixing it place semi permanently (maybe Dzus fastened? That would look boss with just the raw aluminum, depending on your tastes), painting it to match, and removing all of the mechanism for opening (racks and all that). Might even end up lighter than a non-sunroof car that way, certainly lighter than the stock setup by far. The highest part of the car is a very good place to lose weight, which this and the Plexiglas (Lexan if you can afford it) would accomplish in spades.
The hood is a simple shape and making a fiberglass replacement for it shouldn't be all that hard. Remember: if hillbillies can do it, damn it, you can too...
Maybe I should make a mold, consult with my cousin (body guy and fabber) and make a few hoodsThe 'steel style' 14" aluminum wheels (meant for use with hubcaps) are very lightweight and would work well with 205 or even 225 width tires (maybe - those are Celica Supra tires and the spec rim is 14x7). You'd still be able to upgrade to 300SD style vented brakes with those rims. Many don't even know that they're aluminum behind the hubcaps on I think 79 and later models. Bigger wheels and tires will be heavier and running some lower profile 14's meant for sport compacts and with available modern performance rubber, you'd keep a stock-ish look and have decent grip (my 240D looks less 'luxury car' without the hubcaps, I have steel wheels in front and the 'steel style' ones in back, I need another aluminum rim and I can have the front steels replaced). It would also slightly lower the car.
Replace your fog lights with 'gravel guards' to lose weight AND gain a cold air intake passageway in one step!
Get a AAA card and leave the spare tire, jack, and emergency reflector at home.
That's about all I can think of that wasn't mentioned before. None of the above really infringe on the basic usefulness of the car - rear seat passengers with fixed windows can just pretend they're in an 80's four door Cutlass. They don't count anyway - they should be lucky to have a ride! And hands off the fucking radio!
RE: Weight - ForcedInduction - 09-04-2009
(09-04-2009, 04:58 PM)CID Vicious Interesting. Any pics of these cars sans bumpers?Euro bumpers shave a large amount of weight off. They are smaller and lack the shock absorbers.
Quote:For simplicity, reliability, and weight, I want to convert my sunroof to wagon-style operation, or just remove the motor since it's closed and doesn't leak.Thats very easy. Many 240D's have manual roof as well.
I'll have to post the picturesI got this weekend. There is a 76 300D in a junkyard here with a glass sunroof panel and manual slide cover. Its aftermarket though, no way it could replace the stock unit.
Quote:Get a AAA card and leave the spare tire, jack, and emergency reflector at home.Been doing that for years. Pays for itself the first time you need it and you get a good discount at napa.
Quote:And hands off the fucking radio!What is this "radio" you speak of? Don't you mean the engine?
RE: Weight - willbhere4u - 09-05-2009
I saw that same car at pull n save with the glass sun roof!!! looked cool but not as professional as stock! the manual sunroof rocks!!!
RE: Weight - ForcedInduction - 09-05-2009
Pictures.
RE: Weight - DeliveryValve - 09-05-2009
(09-04-2009, 10:02 PM)ForcedInduction [quote='CID Vicious' pid='6150' dateline='1252101508']
....
Quote:Get a AAA card and leave the spare tire, jack, and emergency reflector at home.Been doing that for years. Pays for itself the first time you need it and you get a good discount at napa....
Really?! I've been missing out for past dozen or so years!
(09-05-2009, 01:14 AM)ForcedInduction Pictures.
Interesting.... Makes me what to fabricate in a T-top from a '70s Trans AM!
jj
RE: Weight - kamel - 09-05-2009
Wow, you've got some ambition CID. Radio? you mean the turbo? can't live without mine. As far as sunroof goes, sure is nice not having one.
RE: Weight - CID Vicious - 09-05-2009
I was just thinking, if you wanted to take weight savings to a certain extent before things became truly stupid, that's what I'd look into. I'm going to pull the AC parts off of my car pretty soon, I'd like to get the heater working for the winter though (is the blower itself as craptacular as the controls seem to be? No heat in the winter in the high desert sucks!)
Considering how kinda porky these cars are (a similar sized Volvo 240 or 740 is quite a bit lighter), and how limited tuning options are for maximizing power, weight reduction makes quite a bit of sense as a pursuit to get the most out of these cars. However, real life also intrudes, so I was looking at how to drop weight without having to strip out the back seat and all. I'm sure someone would be cool with having a stripped out 123 for max performance.
Recalling the sticker shock of VW 'Euro-spec' parts, how many pounds of flesh does a pair of Euro-style bumpers go for?
Since discovering that one of my favorite five speeds is very compatible with the OM motors, I've even had this thought: want max performance from a OM powered car? Wish MB had built a lightweight, cheap, swappable chassis for these motors? Well, MB didn't, but Toyota did.
I bought a brown on brown 83 Celica awhile back for use as a beater, and remembered that these were the basis for the contemporary Supras of the day. Only they weighed less, and had a five-linked rear axle rather than a semi trailing arm IRS (I liked the axle better - handled similarly, but STA IRS designs launch from a stop like shit, either hopping the wheels or gaining too much camber and laying down 1" stripes from 7" tires!). They're completely sleeper, especially in brown, but a satisfying drive, even with a truck motor like the 22R. I wanted to use one for a V8 swap (think 7/8 scale Camaro but with better steering and a factory five link instead of four), but it would work equally well with the OM617. They have enough room for a straight six, weigh less than 3k pounds fully equipped, have an aftermarket following that actually trumps the contemporary Supra so you can get upgrade parts for the chassis and suspension. Use Supra spec tires (225 60 14, I think) on Supra rims (14x7, about 13 lbs per rim), which might even come as part of the bargain as they were common on these cars. Four wheel discs are standard, and your HVAC might even still work!
Properly swapped, and applying the same kind of weight saving techniques as you'd use on a 123, this car would easily trounce our cars in the performance department. 3k is probably as stripped as you could get with a 123 and still want to drive it daily. My Celica was about 2800lbs with an iron 22RE in it's nose, spare tire and jack, all options. You could probably get it down to 2500 without much investment (which is about the weight of a stock MR2 Supercharged). That would make the power of the OM go a lot further, not to mention it having a naturally lower center of gravity and more 'flickability' from it's shorter wheelbase. Even has a degree of better utility if you get a hatchback model. It's not going to be 'bush-taxi tough' like our cars, and for rallying ours would probably be superior, but it's a thought. I'm not positive but if you got an engine from a car the same year or newer as the chassis you want to swap it into, it might even be Cali smog legal.
Even lighter, and certainly a more beautiful car (probably my favorite Japanese design) would be a 240Z. It would take more work, and be more expensive, but it would be quite worthwhile in my opinion. The 240Z only had 140hp stock, so being 10hp off with a stock OM617, but with better torque response, would make for a similar driving experience, which is to say, a very good one. A 2200lb RWD car with a VGT'd OM would be a cool ride, a different take on the 'Scarab' 240Z/350 Chevy setup.
Sigh...another badass car I'll probably never get to build.
(09-05-2009, 03:23 AM)kamel Wow, you've got some ambition CID. Radio? you mean the turbo? can't live without mine. As far as sunroof goes, sure is nice not having one.
Well, no turbo just yet. I'm barely around to replacing axles at this point, still have the old air filter in place, and have been driving the car sans power steering since June - belt got tossed. Not exactly the budget I like to work with but that will change soon enough. I'll be happy just not having to worry about the CV joint breaking in the back and leaving me stranded.
Ideally, I'd have a VGT'd OM617 swapped into my 240D for use as a daily driver, and another in one of the cars mentioned in the previous post for foolishness. I'll be happy if the 240D just keeps rolling along in the meantime. Keeps me out of trouble.
RE: Weight - willbhere4u - 09-11-2009
I just crushed a w116 300sd without engine and transmission it weighed in at 4500 # dose that sound right???? they gave me $270 no arguments just took it and left!!!!
the engine I took out is now in a w123 300d and its feels 30% faster by far it hauls ass now!!! it defiantly felt like it was lugging a little extra weight around but seriously I didn't expect that much! 4500# plus engine 700#? and transmission 175#? = around 5300??
RE: Weight - ForcedInduction - 09-11-2009
Possible. Old german steel, pre-computer aided design, top of the line body.
RE: Weight - willbhere4u - 09-11-2009
It was the best German boat I ever bought I was surprised how well that 617 turbo moved it down the road but the w123 is in a different ball park!!!
RE: Weight - CID Vicious - 09-12-2009
I just realized where my 616 is going. More useful than another car (especially as useful as a sports car), the same Toyota trans (different gearset) is in basically all of their trucks since the 70's. The steep first gear makes it less than ideal for performance applications, so I've always looked at the Celica version.
Those trucks, especially the older ones from the same era as the Benz, are light - like 2500 lbs light. I just loaded up four 60 lb bags of concrete in the back seat of the 240D and was rubbing tires often. The 616 does ok with a 3500 lb car, a 225 lb driver and another 240 lbs of concrete, knock about a 1000 lbs out of the equation and you should have a light truck that gets stupid gas mileage that can carry about 1000 lbs before equaling the stock weight of a 240D. Would comparatively haul ass, too, with that kind of weight reduction (~50lb/hp to ~35lb hp) and the five speed. Pretty simple set up, too, just add mounts and 'boilerplate' adapter.
I was actually toying around with the idea of a 'Benzomino' (W123 truck) but as cool as I think that might be (and very easy to accomplish, if you can weld), the concrete episode put the kebash on that - unless I were to swap in the SLS. But the truck would be less work, blends in to traffic better, would gain in speed and mileage compared to the 240D, and would handle a load better with the solid axle.
Come to think of it, there are those little RWD minivans with the same trans, I believe. Fucking ugly though, and never seem to be for sale. Heavier...nah. The truck, though, is intriguing, and could technically be done for a couple hundred bucks, putting my 123 to the side for paint an a 617a swap...
RE: Weight - Sour Diesel - 04-18-2010
You can also gut the doors, trunk, and hood. Make sure you fab hood pins, and jeep latches for the trunk. Once the hood and trunk are gutted you will see how light they can get. I drill out all the spot welds then it all comes apart easy . I will flex allot and have zero strength so be mindful of that before you start. The last thing is loose the GLASS! Take it all out but the windshield. The poly type windows will scratch but I always buff them clear when that happens. Have fun and make sure you attach them good I had the back window blow out of my old 84 gti at 90 mph.
RE: Weight - 300SD_KY - 01-17-2011
always thought the w116 300sd would make a kick-ass rally car ... my bucket/wish-list to save lbs and compete in a classic panamericana race:
carbon/fiberglass cobra front seats
aluminum door panels, front & rear panels, roof
delete rear seats, carpeting, headliner, and any & all sound proofing
remove glass. plexiglass all around
fia roll cage
front & rear sway bars
aluminum skid plate
remove hvac, radio, sun roof & non-essentials
replace usa-spec bumpers with euros
carbon fiber drive shaft
magnesium wheels
6 piston brakes
light weight battery relocated to trunk
upgraded wiring
upgraded turbo
upgraded springs & shocks
keep the wood
replace gauge cluster with AIM unit
+-3" straight thru exhaust
headers
other upgrades as necessary
RE: Weight - garage - 01-18-2011
(01-17-2011, 08:33 PM)300SD_KY always thought the w116 300sd would make a kick-ass rally car ... my bucket/wish-list to save lbs and compete in a classic panamericana race:
carbon/fiberglass cobra front seats
aluminum door panels, front & rear panels, roof
delete rear seats, carpeting, headliner, and any & all sound proofing
remove glass. plexiglass all around
fia roll cage
front & rear sway bars
aluminum skid plate
remove hvac, radio, sun roof & non-essentials
replace usa-spec bumpers with euros
carbon fiber drive shaft
magnesium wheels
6 piston brakes
light weight battery relocated to trunk
upgraded wiring
upgraded turbo
upgraded springs & shocks
keep the wood
replace gauge cluster with AIM unit
+-3" straight thru exhaust
headers
other upgrades as necessary
Count me in! Except ill be in my 240
Ive offroaded both the w116 and the w123, i myself prefer the w123.
But there all a blast!!
RE: Weight - Silberpfeil - 01-19-2011
I've thought about acid-dipping body panels.
Mark Donahue's 'cheater' Penske Camaro Trans-Am car had the body panels acid-dipped so thin they were potato chip thin and were semi-translucent (prior to painting)---yes thin enough to see some light through them.
Interestingly they even tried experimenting with acid-dipped engine blocks. They however had to incorporate them into a production line at GM. They differentiated these blocks only by color coding them. Well when the shift change happened the blocks ended up getting put into production cars.
Anyone have any idea what they body alone weighs on a w123??