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+--- Thread: Electronic fuel injection (/showthread.php?tid=6221)
Electronic fuel injection - TKMad - 02-09-2015
So I've converted a few old cars to EFI using the open source computer Megasquirt. An MGB, a BMW 2002, and a '67 Chevy C20. Running common rail diesel injectors looks to be quite difficult and as far as I know nobody has successfully done this with Megasquirt. Running gasoline direct injectors however, just might not be that bad.
Why couldn't someone put a high pressure pump used for GDI where the injection pump is on a 61X or 60X engine, replace the mechanical injectors with an adapter that holds the GDI injectors and run it with a Megasquirt or any other stand alone EFI controller? Since the GDI injectors and pumps are set up for around 2000 psi it seems it might work out fine for our prechamber diesels. Just have to size the injectors somewhat close and then tune it, and I've done a lot of tuning.
The early GDI Mazdas used a separate driver to drive the GDI injectors since they take around 60 to 100 volts. This standalone drive was triggered by the standard EFI computer PWM signal and they are pretty reasonable on epay, around $100. Several cars have high pressure pumps that are reasonable as well, hell I saw a Porsche 2000 psi pump for $150. I think it could be put together for around $1000 or less if you are really frugal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/INJECTOR-DRIVER-MODULE-MAZDA-6-06-07-/121561953024?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AMazda|Model%3A6&hash=item1c4da83300&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-ORIGINAL-GENUINE-PORSCHE-911-997-CARRERA-DFI-HIGH-PRESSURE-FUEL-PUMP-/370819778064?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3APorsche&hash=item565694c610&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Direct-Fuel-Injector-Nozzle-for-GM-2014-Chevrolet-corvette-LT1-6-0L-12644381-/181641914152?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a4ab3a728&vxp=mtr
RE: Electronic fuel injection - F.R.A.S - 02-10-2015
That Mazda find is awesome really. So what you are saying is that the DI Mazda runs a "normal" ECU and controls the injectors by this module. Would be interesting to see how much the module alters the dead time.
Easy and cheap hookup in this case is a decent standalone and a complete 320cdi engine, then you have the high pressure pump and injectors already installed.
(02-09-2015, 11:08 PM)TKMad So I've converted a few old cars to EFI using the open source computer Megasquirt. An MGB, a BMW 2002, and a '67 Chevy C20. Running common rail diesel injectors looks to be quite difficult and as far as I know nobody has successfully done this with Megasquirt. Running gasoline direct injectors however, just might not be that bad.
Why couldn't someone put a high pressure pump used for GDI where the injection pump is on a 61X or 60X engine, replace the mechanical injectors with an adapter that holds the GDI injectors and run it with a Megasquirt or any other stand alone EFI controller? Since the GDI injectors and pumps are set up for around 2000 psi it seems it might work out fine for our prechamber diesels. Just have to size the injectors somewhat close and then tune it, and I've done a lot of tuning.
The early GDI Mazdas used a separate driver to drive the GDI injectors since they take around 60 to 100 volts. This standalone drive was triggered by the standard EFI computer PWM signal and they are pretty reasonable on epay, around $100. Several cars have high pressure pumps that are reasonable as well, hell I saw a Porsche 2000 psi pump for $150. I think it could be put together for around $1000 or less if you are really frugal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/INJECTOR-DRIVER-MODULE-MAZDA-6-06-07-/121561953024?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AMazda|Model%3A6&hash=item1c4da83300&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-ORIGINAL-GENUINE-PORSCHE-911-997-CARRERA-DFI-HIGH-PRESSURE-FUEL-PUMP-/370819778064?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3APorsche&hash=item565694c610&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Direct-Fuel-Injector-Nozzle-for-GM-2014-Chevrolet-corvette-LT1-6-0L-12644381-/181641914152?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a4ab3a728&vxp=mtr
RE: Electronic fuel injection - seanyt - 02-10-2015
Common rail injectors run at higher voltage. Partly due to them needing a greater current. The megasquirt timers are not accurate enough to time an injection event and duration.
In a petrol car it just batch fires the fuel and even using COP triggers them in pairs.
I think a e270/320cdi is a better bet with a fullymapable ecu.
Even the basic om60x edc pump hasn't been made standalone. Due to its variable inductance transducer for rack feedback.
Once a good solution has been found. Rev limits and mapping for power and low smoke should be easier than it is at present.
I've also used megasquirt on 13b rx7 and 4g63 engines. So it was my first port of call during research.
Even there megashift ecu won't runn a 722.6
RE: Electronic fuel injection - baldur - 02-10-2015
I have a working stand-alone controller for the electronic M pump. First engine install planned next quarter.
There's one thing the electronic M pump leaves to be desired though, it does not have electronically controlled timing, only the injection amount can be mapped.
RE: Electronic fuel injection - seanyt - 02-10-2015
Oh nice. Is it aftermarket or custom built circuit?
RE: Electronic fuel injection - seanyt - 02-10-2015
Noticed you built a circuit. Only yesterday I built an inductance meter circuit so I can test the pump rack position.
Have you looked at the ldc1000 chip,it measures inductance accurately and easily for microcontrollers.
RE: Electronic fuel injection - baldur - 02-10-2015
Custom built. I have no idea how Bosch did it, no ECU to disect so I started from scratch. I have not looked at the ldc1000 chip but the circuit I built is working well on the bench. The tricky part is that the voice coil of the rack solenoid needs lots of current so the inductance measuring circuit must be very good at rejecting the PWM noise.
What I have left to do is implement the temperature compensation code for the position sensing before it goes onto an engine.
RE: Electronic fuel injection - seanyt - 02-10-2015
Good work, the arduino edc have looked at running the pumps but doesnt look like its progressing very far.
Ive seen a few people measure the rack position, But never a final solution.
The stock ecu has a dedicated bosch chip for the rack measurment.
Havent looked into the solenoid much i presumed a mosfet would drive it based on a pid controller throught rack feedback.
I can imagine noise would be an issue, be interesting to see how you get on though.
I hate having to buy an immobiliser delete and then reprogram the stock ecu etc
RE: Electronic fuel injection - baldur - 02-10-2015
I have closed loop control of the rack position working. The remaining risk factors are hardware stability and reliability in the car, basically stress testing.
RE: Electronic fuel injection - TKMad - 02-10-2015
The MS3 can handle fully sequential injection events and time them. If the Mazda, or any other high voltage direct injection driver can fire the injectors then I think it would work.
To do a direct injection diesel some code would have to be written to handle the pilot injection as well as the main injection. Doing the prechamber with an off the shelf gasoline direct injector sounds like it might be much easier.
5 years ago none of this was possible but I think with all this new hardware out there becoming affordable there is a real possibility of electronically controlling at least the older diesels.
RE: Electronic fuel injection - 97e300 - 02-10-2015
baldur, what micro are you running? Are you just using a PID or more complex control?
RE: Electronic fuel injection - Eric78 - 02-11-2015
(02-10-2015, 04:33 AM)seanyt Common rail injectors run at higher voltage. Partly due to them needing a greater current. The megasquirt timers are not accurate enough to time an injection event and duration.
Add to that the fact that most CDI diesels have multiple injections per cylinder per power stroke, as many as nine, the fuel is delivered in small stages instead of one big spurt to avoid the knocking in direct injected engines, also makes for a cleaner burn. An up-specced version of megasquirt & some other open source ECUs can do proper sequencial injection(Ie: firing one injectector at a time instead of batch firing) but even with an add on driver for the diesel injectors none of these open source ECUs can do the multiple firing of a single injector, the only aftermarket ECU I know of that isn't specifically designed for diesel that can run a diesel is Adaptronic, which is $1200-$1800, but once you start speccing up open source ECUs to have some serious capabilities they run close to that price anyway.
RE: Electronic fuel injection - baldur - 02-11-2015
I'm using ARM based microcontrollers. The control is a convolution of one form of PID.