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+--- Thread: 190E spring rates for drifting/track (/showthread.php?tid=6270)
190E spring rates for drifting/track - Matej - 02-22-2015
Hello gentlemen,
What are some good spring rates for a 190E, preferably on the stiffer side?
At the moment I am deciding on rates somewhere between 12-16 kgf/mm (672-896 lbs/in), unless I should be looking at something softer/stiffer.
Unfortunately I do not have much to go off, as there is hardly any information on W201 spring rates online. All I am basing my numbers on is that I ran 10 kgf/mm springs on my Nissan 180SX, which was stiff (most coilovers for it come with 8 kgf/mm), but still drivable and I liked it.
Thanks for any input.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - raysorenson - 02-22-2015
http://forum.190rev.net/showthread.php?41657-Track-day-fun
I think the rear motion ratio on the 201/124/129 is 1.5
You won't get anywhere near the spring rates you want using stock stuff. Another thing is, you'll need helper springs or some other kind of mechanism or even shorter shock travel to keep rear springs of those rates located in the perches at full droop.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - Matej - 02-22-2015
The setup will be similar to the one offered by Yellow Speed or E36 coilovers, with adjustable length shocks, and I will use coilover springs, so finding the desired length and rate should not be an issue.
I am just trying to figure what spring rates to go with it.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - Mr_Robs - 02-22-2015
It really depends on what shocks you are using. Depending on the valving, the shock can only handle a certain spring rate. You dont want to run something very high and wear through the valving on your shocks in less than 6 months of track use.
Personally i am using bilstiens from an E36 M3 in the front, and ford ranger bilstiens in the rear on my W124 (same as 190e).
I know from experience with my miata, normal bilstiens B6's on the MX5 platform dont perform well with a spring rate higher than 425/lbs. A good suspension shop can re valve bilstiens to handle higher rates up to 7/800lbs, we have a shop here called Fat Cat Motorsports that offers the service local to me. I daily drive the MX5 on 425lbft front 375lbft rear and it is really comfortable.
The H&R 60 springs which are a minor stiffness upgrade from stock, but are mostly used for the ride height drop are only 70nm (51lbft) front, 75nm (55lbft) rear which is quite soft.
From what i have been able to find, the stiffest H&R spring rates offered are 320nm (236lbft) front, and 220nm (162lbft) rear which have been commented on as "super stiff" in the community, but I know most mercedes owners are against anything remotely "un comfortable"
Anyways for my W124, based on the weight of the car and with the shocks i am running, i plan to get eibach springs through Ground Control at 500lbs front 425 rear.
My front shocks are used, but the E36 M3 valving should be nice enough to handle those spring rates for a while. Worst case i will re-valve them in a year or so. Also a nice advantage with ordering through Ground Control is the custom springs are only $64 each so if you end up with a shitty ride it doesnt really break the bank to order another set.
Hope the info helps!
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - raysorenson - 02-22-2015
(02-22-2015, 01:50 PM)Matej I am just trying to figure what spring rates to go with it.
So you read the link I posted, and kept in mind that I told you the rear motion ratio was 1.5 and you know what rates you want, right?
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - Matej - 02-22-2015
The front will be about 1.5 as well, since I plan to retain the stock configuration, with the spring separate from the shock. I would not trust a true coilover setup in the front without having the shock towers professionally reinforced.
The numbers I came up with were just guesses, since I really am not familiar with this car yet, all I know is how stiff I want it to feel. But judging by the replies in that thread, I will probably start out with 14 or 16 kgf/mm (I like even numbers).
This is a bit off topic, but I am guessing no one makes extended lower control arms or drop/angle knuckles for these cars?
Does anyone provide services of modding the stock knuckles and control arms? If not, I will try to get someone to mod mine and see how it turns out.
I sure will miss the huge suspension aftermarket and innovation for the 180SX, but I really wanted a turbodiesel Mercedes drift car.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - Matej - 02-23-2015
Also, has anyone attempted fitting W203, W204, or W212 coilovers? Unlike the E36 ones, the rears actually use the same mounting stem/bushing sizes. Just curious if the fronts are a direct fit.
W203
![[Image: 8272010_105145_5902_MR-CDK-W203.jpg]](http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/8272010_105145_5902_MR-CDK-W203.jpg)
W204
![[Image: 10222010_17185_2169_MR-CDK-W204.jpg]](http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/10222010_17185_2169_MR-CDK-W204.jpg)
W212
![[Image: 6172013_16412_7392_MR-CDK-W212.jpg]](http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/6172013_16412_7392_MR-CDK-W212.jpg)
C63 AMG
![[Image: 562014_151043_689_MR-CDK-W204C63.jpg]](http://www.meganracing.com/uploadimage/regular/562014_151043_689_MR-CDK-W204C63.jpg)
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - raysorenson - 02-23-2015
The upper front spring perches will need to be gusseted if you want a very high spring rate. Keep in mind that the bumpstop regularly transmits more force to the strut towers than the coil spring will ever apply to the spring perches.
On the coilovers pictured, the front springs are too wide to clear the front tire. The rear body mount for the shocks isn't the same as the 201. The body will need to be modified, putting you right back in E36 coilover territory.
Aftermarket suppliers for 190e suspension include Ground Control, Intrax, Yellowspeed. I'm sure there's at least one more. The ground control kits see the most track time in the US.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - Matej - 02-23-2015
Good to know about the rear body mounts being different, I am trying to find something with the exact same upper and lower mount dimensions as the stock shocks. I know that the E36 rears are close but not actually exact, which puts me off them.
The W203 rear coilovers actually do use the exact same upper and lower mount dimensions as the W201 shocks, so if the front is a direct fit, those could be a good match. They would of course need to be used with different springs, I am just looking at shocks alone.
It seems that I will probably just go with the Yellow Speed kit, and swap out the springs that come with it for Swift Springs.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - raysorenson - 02-23-2015
I recommend against using the stock front spring location because the upper spring perch isn't anywhere near as strong as the strut tower, the stock spring location places additional force on the LCA bushings and the spring force acts to pull the lower ball joint apart. Have you heard the intarweb horror stories about ball joint separation on these cars?
The only drawback to coilovers is slightly reduced inner tire clearance.
RE: 190E spring rates for drifting/track - Matej - 02-25-2015
Did not know that, thanks for the information. I was hoping not to need to have anything reinforced, but it looks as if it may be necessary after all.
Has there been a consensus on what spring rates begin causing troubles?
Perhaps another option would be using a dual spring setup to split the desired spring rate between the two mounting points. Is the front stock motion ratio also 1.5?
![[Image: autoepites_060.jpg]](http://www.mbsportclub.lt/forum/attachments/autoepites_060.jpg)