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+--- Thread: T5 Transmission Swap? (/showthread.php?tid=6287)
T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 02-26-2015
Has anyone considered, or actually done this in a Benz?
Found a Bell Housing adapter kit, that'll mate the 617 to a Small Block Ford Transmission & starter, and adapt the Ford 164t flywheel, clutch & pressure plate assembly...the rest would just be clutch hydraulics between Ford TOB and Benz master cylinder.
X-member would be easy enough, and driveshaft too.
Anyone actually done it? Shifter location would be a factor too, I guess.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - TKMad - 02-27-2015
There are a couple companies that make adapter plates for the 617 to Chevy manual transmissions. Any of these would work for the T5.
I have not heard of anyone putting one in a W123 though, they are usually for 4x4 projects.
http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com/category_s/1817.htm
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 02-27-2015
(02-27-2015, 01:53 PM)TKMad There are a couple companies that make adapter plates for the 617 to Chevy manual transmissions. Any of these would work for the T5.
I have not heard of anyone putting one in a W123 though, they are usually for 4x4 projects.
http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com/category_s/1817.htm
That's the company whose adapter I was looking at.
Spoke with the owner on the phone yesterday. I could pull a transmission, flywheel and starter from a 1991 5.0 Mustang, and it'd bolt to the motor.
I'd just have to figure out my driveshaft & x-member. There are a few companies that make brackets to hang a hydraulic slave cylinder to the bell housing, so I think just a custom hose would be in order to actuate it with the stock MBZ pedal.
They're darn strong transmissions, easy to find, and feel good. Not a whole lot of options for a 5-speed behind a 617, hence why I'm investigating it.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Duncansport - 02-27-2015
http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Mercedes%20diesel.htm
this too
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 02-27-2015
Just wonder about bell housing clearance, with the Ford & Chevy stuff
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - TKMad - 02-28-2015
(02-27-2015, 05:28 PM)Mylesofsmyles Just wonder about bell housing clearance, with the Ford & Chevy stuff
That's the big question. I just rebuilt and installed a 2004r into my '67 Chevy pickup and man what a great transmission. Shifts like butter and now at 70 mph I'm at 2000 rpm instead of 3200. So much better!
I would really like to put a 700r4 into a W123 but have been scared of the bell housing. Next time I have a transmission issue I'm going to try it. It will be tight, but I think it just might fit, I just wish it wouldn't cost $750 to try it. Maybe one of those adapter makers will let me try to fit it and if it works I'll buy it and if not send it back?
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 02-28-2015
I may just give it a try, in a few months.
That MercedesDiesel4x4 kit looks like what I'll try. He says, for the Ford, it's just for the 164t flywheels....however I don't know why a 157t flywheel wouldn't work, if it's for the right transmission & starter....I have to contemplate that.
It's a 13-1/4" diameter flywheel...or something like that, so I don't know that it's diameter will be that much of an issue.
I'll have to do something about a rear end though. A 3.07 diff isn't going to like a T5 very much....inclined to try a s13 diff with either 3.91's or 4.10's! I'd do it all at the same time.....only one driveshaft to make
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - JB3 - 02-28-2015
Ive got a T5 behind the OM617 in my van.
I think your number one issue is fitting the sumbitch in the tunnel, followed by the shifter coming up in the center of the dash. Its 2 to 3 times the size of the benz micro gearboxes, and the shifter in stock application comes up sooner, well before the tailcone. You would need to get an attachment to bring the shifter back, which would eat up even more of the barely available room there
I doubt it would fit easily without some serious tunnel bashing, but then again, people have put 350s with an automatic in 123s, so maybe it would work. As far as gearing, im sure you could find a T5 with approximate complimentary gearing. Theres must be 100 different gearsets over the years for dozens of applications. Im using an on WC early 90s S10 gear set.
Were it me, id look more at mazda miata 5speeds, which are narrow and long.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 02-28-2015
I'm doubtful a Miata transmission, clutch and pressure plate will handle the torque of a warmed up 617 turbo.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - JB3 - 02-28-2015
(02-28-2015, 04:32 PM)Mylesofsmyles I'm doubtful a Miata transmission, clutch and pressure plate will handle the torque of a warmed up 617 turbo.
People have squeezed a hell of a lot more power out of a miata than anyones achieved in a 617.
I say it as an example on the design of the transmission specifically though. Narrow small bell, with the stick right at the end of the tailcone, closer to how a benz side lever would fit than a T5
Id look at other rwd japanese vehicles personally, not saying miata alone. Even maybe nissan HB truck transmissions, toyota truck ,supra ,ect.
The perfect fit would be something designed to fit in a small rwd configuration with limited room
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 02-28-2015
Toyota trans would be my next attempt...but I'd like to see a Benz trans and T5, side by side.
There are a lot of cool shift relocaters for T5
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Petar - 03-01-2015
Some Getrag BMW 5 speed gearboxes from late 1980's beemers should work well. Dunno what you could find locally though. Another possibility is taking a newer benz 5 or 6 speed and cut and weld the bellhousing.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - TKMad - 03-01-2015
The T5 can be had with different shifter locations.
http://lugnutz65chevystepside.weebly.com/whats-the-difference-between-a-camaro-t5-an-s10-t5-and-an-astro-t5.html
I have a Camaro T5 in my garage so I can measure if anyone needs it. Does anyone know the distance from the mating flange on an OM617 to the shifter location on a W123?
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - JB3 - 03-01-2015
(02-28-2015, 08:38 PM)Mylesofsmyles Toyota trans would be my next attempt...but I'd like to see a Benz trans and T5, side by side.
There are a lot of cool shift relocaters for T5
here are the benz 4 and 5 speeds for a 617 next to a NV3500, which is approx the same dimensions as a T5 as far as bell and length, but a bit beefier looking
![[Image: trannycompare1.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/transmission%20compare/trannycompare1.jpg.html)
![[Image: trannycompare2.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/transmission%20compare/trannycompare2.jpg.html)
Below are some T5 vs benz 4-speed plus shifter comparison pics. The problem with moving the shifter location on the T5 with an adapter is those adapters are bulky. This specific T5 adapted about 10 inches over to the driver side.
Im pretty sure I saw a few pics once of a T5 with a shifter right on the end of the tailcone. That might be perfect spacing
Here I have swung the shifter to put the handle in approx the right place-
![[Image: 007.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/astro%20MB%20trans%20comparison/007.jpg.html)
![[Image: 006.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/astro%20MB%20trans%20comparison/006.jpg.html)
very roughly the benz shifter would be 6ish inches behind the standard T5 shifter location, so it would come up right below the ash tray in a 123 unless extended some way
![[Image: 005.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/astro%20MB%20trans%20comparison/005.jpg.html)
![[Image: 003.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/astro%20MB%20trans%20comparison/003.jpg.html)
![[Image: 0025.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/astro%20MB%20trans%20comparison/0025.jpg.html)
if you could adapt a T5 removable bell to an early iron benz 4-speed removable bell, that might be the bees knees
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 03-01-2015
That looks like a S-10 style T5, which has a long school-bus type shifter....that wouldn't be close in a w123.
I have two Volvo 240's with T5 transmissions swapped in from 5.0 Mustangs...both behind Volvo Redblock engines. The shifter location was a perfect replacement for the M46 transmission that was removed.
Here is a look at what a Mustang T5 looks like...
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[/img]
A measurement of bell housing surface to shifter of the stock MBZ transmission would help.
I thought about using the stock Benz bell housing, which would solve other riddles...one could use a MBZ flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, release bearing and clutch fork/slave cylinder. That said, with that MercedesDiesel4x4 stuff, I could use all Ford stuff, bolt it in, and only have one custom line to make, to marry the MBZ master and Ford slave.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - TKMad - 03-01-2015
I can't seem to upload any images, but if you click on the link I put in my previous post it shows the difference in shifter locations.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - JB3 - 03-01-2015
(03-01-2015, 05:55 PM)TKMad I can't seem to upload any images, but if you click on the link I put in my previous post it shows the difference in shifter locations.
Camaro or firebird T5 might be perfect looking at that link!
I was using a 92 or 92 non WC s10 gearset which had very close ratios to a 717.411
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - JB3 - 03-01-2015
I cant scroll sideways to hit reply to mylesofsmyles, but that t5 in the above pics is an astro tailcone bolted to an S10
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - TKMad - 03-01-2015
The T5 I have has a .62 overdrive! That's around 2500 rpm at 70 mph with a 3.9 rear diff. That would be sweet!
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 03-01-2015
(03-01-2015, 08:30 PM)TKMad The T5 I have has a .62 overdrive! That's around 2500 rpm at 70 mph with a 3.9 rear diff. That would be sweet!
Yep...I have that one in my 242...with 3.91 rear...it kicks butt!
The Benz would need a change of final drive for something like a T5 to work...I'm looking into adapting a S13 Nissan diff. Good LSD options and 3.91's & 4.10's out the box.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Captain America - 03-02-2015
I wouldn't do it personally and I have a few reasons. The T5 Ive heard ppl say will handle a massive amount of power but when trying to find a first gear set that matches stock auto first of 3.4x:1 that torque handling capacity demises quickly to 200 ft lbs. making a shifter work is cake.
I am on the way to putting a Jeep AX15 in my benz. I already have the donor trans that I picked up for $450.
Mercedesdiesel4x4 makes a plate to adapt to the jeep trans that is $80 less than the plate to adapt to the T5.
The AX15 is rated for 300ft lbs torque and has also been used behind plenty of V8s.
The AX15 ratios mimic the Merc auto ratios exactly with the exception of 1st gear being 3.8:1 vs 3.4:1 (which in my case I like for crawling in the desert. and has .79 overdrive
I have measured shifter location and the AX15 shift will be approx 10" closer to the engine than the shift in the w123, but that is no problem with something like in the attached picture made! Also is a pic of my AX15 I picked up and lightbar haha
Since pic uploading isnt working heres a link or two
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb227/fjoell/DSCN2306.jpg
https://plus.google.com/photos/106081097032301786345/albums/6121497259370446561?authkey=CKmdjrCr5aqWSQ
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 03-02-2015
I didn't realize that the Stock MBZ auto gear ratios were something desired....
Hell, half the benefit of the swap seemed to be to get away from those BMW-like Spastic ratios, and have something more suited for performance.
If I do go T5, it'll be a 3.35 first gear and 0.68 fifth....I"ll do something about the rear end...either 3.91 or 4.08's, so everything will be in balance.
Not sure where you're going with your limited torque handling of a T5...that trans is behing almost every 5.0L and newer Mustang, V8 Camaros & Firebirds. It isn't uncommon to see 2.3L Volvo Turbos, tuned over 400RWHP, that use a regular old T5....
Both my T5 swapped Volvo's handle the abuse of me driving, and either 330hp or 400hp just fine...I drive both those cars a couple times per week.
The torque handling is pretty real, and I don't think it'll be a concern.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - raysorenson - 03-02-2015
C.A.'s concern is for crawl ratio. Not really an issue for the rest of us.
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Mylesofsmyles - 03-02-2015
Certainly understood. I need autobahn gears
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - Captain America - 03-05-2015
haha you guys are funny. true that first gear could disappear but I don't think the ratios are too spastic... 3.4, 2.4, 1.4, 1
It will be interesting indeed. Think we'll be the first to do both... you doing T5 and me AX15
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - [486] - 03-09-2015
(03-02-2015, 12:21 PM)Mylesofsmyles It isn't uncommon to see 2.3L Volvo Turbos, tuned over 400RWHP, that use a regular old T5....All a transmission (and a clutch for that matter) sees is torque, 400hp at 7k RPM is a paltry 300 ft/lb. Still within the factory recommended ratings of some T5s.
Both my T5 swapped Volvo's handle the abuse of me driving, and either 330hp or 400hp just fine...I drive both those cars a couple times per week.
I'm thinking on putting a t5 behind a TDI, but I'm trying to justify it when I'm already well above the torque rating of the trans (mine is a 240ft/lb rated one, and the engine's putting out 250 at least, so far)
RE: T5 Transmission Swap? - DrewGerhan - 06-28-2015
What ever happened with this?