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+--- Thread: High Horsepower Differential Optons (/showthread.php?tid=6379)
High Horsepower Differential Optons - ak47is1337 - 03-26-2015
What options do I have for the W201 chassis? I am planning a 190D build with an OM606. I will use 8mm pump and goal is ~500 hp. Obviously an LSD will be preferred, I don't want Honda-esque one wheel burnouts.
I am thinking:
W140 S600 differential
500E differential
R129 SL600 differential
Corvette something? (easy to find and cheap)
Nissan R200?
F.R.A.S recommends take the entire rear subframe out of an E34 M5, welding some plates on the points where it will attach, drilling holes and bolting that on. However, just finding an E34 M5 in the US is going to be near impossible. The E39 M5 is also apparently an option, but still rare and expensive.
Any recommendations??
Don't have a lot of ideas and my 2.5 TD LSD is not going to last long.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - hents99 - 03-26-2015
None of them are with LSD.
I suggest to use W124 big ASD differential. 162kW models has these differentials. W126 and other LSD differentials are expensive and going to be rare.
2.65 - 3.6x ratios.
This differential is slightly bigger than small W124/201 ASD. I tried W124 big ASD differential into W201 rear subframe.
I`m planning to produce 124 big diff endplate for W201 subframe to make bolt-on kits.
But if you looking for bolt-on solution then pick W124 small ASD diff. You find it from W201 equipped with ASD or 16V models.
MB ASD is same as LSD. ASD has hydraulics for stronger locking at low speeds.
Edit: I`d worry about drive axles and/or joints.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - ak47is1337 - 03-26-2015
yeah i knew the mercedes killed off all the LSD's except for a few like the w201 2.5 turbo and the 16v. the ASD only locks up to 30% though, right? which isn't great, but i guess is something. my main concern is the thing breaking. I do a lot of long distance driving and do not want to be stuck somewhere. Are you sure one of the small w124's can handle the OM606 + big turbo torque?
Obviously, I'd prefer bolt on (who wouldn't?) but would prefer to know all my options before I go ahead and install a new differential that I may not like and have to install again. The thing you need to realize is that my transmission-diff propeller shaft will be custom made anyway since I will get rid of the w201 4 speed in favor of a tremec t56, so theres no reason to do it twice. that is also part of the reason i suggested a corvette rear end - it would bolt pretty easily to the transmission.
By the way, you mentioned the W126's: which version are you referring to? 560sel's are easy to spot in a junkyard here, and occasionally you can find 560sec/sl parts too.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - hents99 - 03-26-2015
Use W201/124 ASD differential. If you have differential endplate from W201 ASD then you can use differentials from W124 as well.
Housings are same.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - raysorenson - 03-26-2015
This build used a 185mm diff. Axles and motor mount arms broke before the diff.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=3199
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - ak47is1337 - 03-27-2015
well i might just have to bite the honda bullet and go open or semi open (ASD). should i be genuinely concerned about the motor mount arms? its going in a stock 190d 2.5 turbo. Anyway axles are a part of the diff assembly anyway if you think about it, and to me theres not much sense in swapping in a new diff with axles that i think will break. am i correct in thinking if i just make a new endplate i can attach almost any new differential?
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - Petar - 03-27-2015
AFAIK ASD is practically LSD + hydraulic lockup. Normally it has about 25-30% lockup but with hydraulic pressure that lockup can increase to 100%.And i never heard of anybody breaking a merc diff anyway. So IMHO you should be fine.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - Mr_Robs - 03-27-2015
Im aiming for 500-550 HP and i picked up this 3.15 gears BMW LSD for $450. Perfect ratio for a diesel and it has a pretty high factory lock. It came out of a 750LI with the V12, the biggest gearset diff bmw made, its massive 105lbs. Its direct bolt in to the E34's and it was a factory upgrade at Dinan.
Im just going to have custom mounts made at the same time i have someone fabricate my gearbox mount, it has removable half shafts and yolk so fabrication should be easy. I planned on doing custom driveshafts (axles) from the start because i knew i would most likely not use an OEM mercedes diff, nor would stock driveshafts be strong enough for the tq.
Picture of the diff. For a buyers guide the "S" before the ratio denotes LSD (engraved on the other side not the painted one). So dont get scammed by someone claiming a diff is LSD with no S on it.
![[Image: IMG_0504.jpg]](http://s621.photobucket.com/user/britishbadass/media/IMG_0504.jpg.html)
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - Eric78 - 03-28-2015
I've bought an LSD from an AMG w204 C300, 3.07 gearing, hasn't arrived yet but going by the pictures I can fit it into my w201 rear subframe if the rear plate from a w201 will fit it.
Not sure how much power it will handle, anyone familiar with this one?
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - ak47is1337 - 03-28-2015
I don't know how I feel about the C300 LSD. While some of the newer C-class stuff seems to fit well, like the c230k manual gearbox mating to the OM60x engines perfectly, I sincerely doubt it can withstand much torque; that stuff was built to last under less than 200 lb/ft, and an OM60x making 500+ hp is going to put down 700 OR MORE lb/ft.
I'm keen on the 750 idea. What year is that you plan on using? F01/F02 (2008+)? or E65/E66/E67/E68 (2001-2008)? I'd be interested to see what your setup looks like when it's done. I'm not wanting to do an entire subframe swap from a beamer that I may not even be able to find.
You mentioned having custom driveshafts made - does that mean your just going to take the 750 ones and have them shortened (or lengthened)?
thanks again.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - F.R.A.S - 03-28-2015
I think Mr Robs diff is e32 but I can be wrong.
It's easier to swap the entire rear sub frame. The rear sub frame is complete with wheel hubs and axels and mounting points so everything fits. e39 M5 is a no go. Great and easy sub frame to fit but ONLY the station wagon model and the M5 never came as a station wagon. The sub frame differs from the saloon and station wagon. The later being much easier to install.
Easiest is e34 or maybe even e32 (have not dismantled a e32). The with of the e34 should be similar to the w124. BMW also have different ET on the rims for the 3-series and the 5-series so it's quite possible to make it fit pretty nice without to much wheel spacers.
JUST swapping the diff is harder. One thing is the splines in the wheel hubs, when going big power Mercedes it's in the splines the axels break. So you could have the biggest badest stuff around and the weak point is still the splines
Sure with custom shafts and some custom super strong axel ends it will hold but that will cost more money then fitting a complete rear sub frame.
It's not EASY to fit a new sub frame but it's not really that hard. It's measure, and measure, and measure and then repeat a hundred times more, then fit it
The e34 sub frame is only TWO bolts in the front and the diff mount in the rear. That's what makes it a great option. The M5 e34 is bullet proof. People in Sweden that don't get the M5 diff (expensive) use the 5-series diff with 7-series knuckles and so on.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - ak47is1337 - 03-28-2015
I figured with swapping a diff from a totally different manufacturer that i would end up taking their axles/driveshafts anyway and probably have to re-size them on both ends to fit in the wheel wells but if you really say its easier to swap than just the diff and the diff plate + modified axles than i guess i can try that.
you said "People in Sweden that don't get the M5 diff (expensive) use the 5-series diff with 7-series knuckles and so on" but what you mean use the 7-series knuckles? what even IS a differential knuckle? so the e34 diff from any of the models would do? i have located a 540i in my state so that V8 model would probably be used for reference.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - Mr_Robs - 03-28-2015
Yep Fred is right! E32.
The reason i decided to just fit the diff is i like my mercedes hubs, i have brakes for it, 5x112 wheels for it and everything already.
The driveshafts i am getting made are custom anyways so i will have the shop match the bmw diff output flange into the mercedes hub. If it becomes a problem holding the torque then i will figure out a solution later
Dont want to handle a custom rear subframe right now haha.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - F.R.A.S - 03-28-2015
(03-28-2015, 04:37 AM)ak47is1337 I figured with swapping a diff from a totally different manufacturer that i would end up taking their axles/driveshafts anyway and probably have to re-size them on both ends to fit in the wheel wells but if you really say its easier to swap than just the diff and the diff plate + modified axles than i guess i can try that.
you said "People in Sweden that don't get the M5 diff (expensive) use the 5-series diff with 7-series knuckles and so on" but what you mean use the 7-series knuckles? what even IS a differential knuckle? so the e34 diff from any of the models would do? i have located a 540i in my state so that V8 model would probably be used for reference.
Knuckles (my English can be wrong here) are the joints in each end of the axels. You don't break the BMW axles you break the knuckles, so people take a e34 diff the big one like 210 diff that Mr Robs have and fit the 7-series knuckles to get the rear end bullet proof.
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - ak47is1337 - 03-28-2015
Huh..interesting. Is that a thing I would need to do if I swapped an e34 subframe? Is the e34 diff to 7 series knuckles bolt on (if you kept the e34 subrame)?
RE: High Horsepower Differential Optons - F.R.A.S - 03-28-2015
I believe you can just go e34 v8 (540) and have some really solid stuff. The strongest e34 rear end is still the M5. The e32 might look the same, so go to the scrap yard and turn an e32 v12 (750) on it's side and check how the sub frame look. If it's easy to mount use it