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+--- Thread: OM605 intake building (/showthread.php?tid=6508)
OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-13-2015
This project is moving along S-L-O-W-L-Y Ill build up the plenum this week hopefully as well as port water injection
RE: OM605 intake building - Booster - 05-13-2015
If your going to the effort of all the fab work/welding how come your retaining the original runners? Surely there is a better way to route them?
RE: OM605 intake building - MFSuper90 - 05-13-2015
Port water injection really isn't the best way to inject water, but if that's what you would like to do I'd like to see it
RE: OM605 intake building - F.R.A.S - 05-13-2015
I like the stock runners
Good job mate. It's a N/A intake right? The turbo has the Nr6 port in the same hight as the others.If you got some free time you can cut of all the casting stuff from the runners and smooth them out a bit. Will look like a completely new intake after that. Hell of a job though
RE: OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-13-2015
Thanks guys, still got 2-4 hours of porting the runners. What's the poo poo about port injection of water? The n/a intake has some real nice bosses that would fog the inlet port nicely
RE: OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 04:22 PM)F.R.A.S I like the stock runners
If you got some free time you can cut of all the casting stuff from the runners and smooth them out a bit. Will look like a completely new intake after that. Hell of a job though
Yeah n/a intake as after 6 months I couldn't find a turbo one
RE: OM605 intake building - Booster - 05-14-2015
(05-13-2015, 04:22 PM)F.R.A.S I like the stock runners
But why? I don't get all the effort to make a custom set up when standard is proven to fairly high hp
Then only change half of it? There must be a better way to have the runner set up , not only for the runners but then even ports in the plenum. Flow can't be good/equal etc ??
RE: OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-14-2015
(05-14-2015, 01:38 AM)Booster(05-13-2015, 04:22 PM)F.R.A.S I like the stock runners
But why? I don't get all the effort to make a custom set up when standard is proven to fairly high hp
Then only change half of it? There must be a better way to have the runner set up , not only for the runners but then even ports in the plenum. Flow can't be good/equal etc ??
The standard turbo 606 intake doesnt have a large enough plenum for one. It also does a great job of directing most of the inlet air towards 3&4 cylinders. as far as the runners go im not sure there is any huge room for improvement without massive testing. Sure we could make something fancy with CNC'd flange, runners and such but would it be better?
The reason for my mods are that i dont want to use the 605 plastic manifold, can't find a turbo 606 manifold anywhere and i would like a cleaner inlet then the N/A plenum provides.
Besides i like building stuff, i'd never waste this much time and $$ on a M-B diesel unless i wanted a cool project :-)
RE: OM605 intake building - Booster - 05-14-2015
(05-14-2015, 06:51 AM)Duncansport(05-14-2015, 01:38 AM)Booster(05-13-2015, 04:22 PM)F.R.A.S I like the stock runners
But why? I don't get all the effort to make a custom set up when standard is proven to fairly high hp
Then only change half of it? There must be a better way to have the runner set up , not only for the runners but then even ports in the plenum. Flow can't be good/equal etc ??
The standard turbo 606 intake doesnt have a large enough plenum for one. It also does a great job of directing most of the inlet air towards 3&4 cylinders. as far as the runners go im not sure there is any huge room for improvement without massive testing. Sure we could make something fancy with CNC'd flange, runners and such but would it be better?
The reason for my mods are that i dont want to use the 605 plastic manifold, can't find a turbo 606 manifold anywhere and i would like a cleaner inlet then the N/A plenum provides.
Besides i like building stuff, i'd never waste this much time and $$ on a M-B diesel unless i wanted a cool project :-)
Please don't get me Wrong, I wasn't Dissing your work! Just Learning...
Nice to see people using the 605 and not just slapping in a 606.
Cant wait to see the finished result!
RE: OM605 intake building - MFSuper90 - 05-17-2015
(05-13-2015, 08:29 PM)Duncansport Thanks guys, still got 2-4 hours of porting the runners. What's the poo poo about port injection of water? The n/a intake has some real nice bosses that would fog the inlet port nicely
It puts the water very close to the head. I've learned from tractor pulling engine builders and so on that the further away from the head you can put the water, the better. Gives it time to cool off the air before it goes into the engine, and well as helps it vaporize into the air so large droplets aren't going directly into the engine. The outer bend of the first elbow coming out of the charger is where I've always been told to place them, but if you have an intercooler, I think I'd put them after the intercooler.
This is advise I have gained from people that have done hours upon hours of dyno testing just to pick up and 10hp
RE: OM605 intake building - F.R.A.S - 05-17-2015
If you need water you are way deep guys
The goal has to be that you can build something that works and not something that needs extra stuff like water. Every time you push that pedal you need the same power. You can't rely on stuff that is running out every now and again like Nitrous and water.
RE: OM605 intake building - raysorenson - 05-17-2015
And water slows combustion. You might be playing the price of less power for lower IAT's, when you could just turn down the fuel and boost. Since methanol has a higher probability of pre-igniting in a prechamber motor, you also lose that advantage.
I'm with Fred on extra complication, but if you just have to tinker, how about CO2 spray on the IC?
RE: OM605 intake building - MFSuper90 - 05-17-2015
Water injection actually adds power, lots of it honestly. It was night and day on our pulling tractor.
But again, I do agree with Fred. I was just saying what I've learned from our competition toys
RE: OM605 intake building - Hario' - 05-18-2015
2nd wat he said.
(05-17-2015, 05:14 PM)F.R.A.S If you need water you are way deep guys
RE: OM605 intake building - whipplem104 - 05-18-2015
My .2 cents is if you have the fuel put nitrous instead of water/meth. Might as well get the power from the cooling effect. A very small shot will cool the intake charge and add power beyond what the shot was designed for. Doing a port set up is good and you can also use it to spool up a large turbo.
More power is more power.
RE: OM605 intake building - F.R.A.S - 05-18-2015
Where is the boost limit generally? Is it possible with "normal" turbos to boost 5bar, 6bar, 7bar, 8bar, 9bar, 10bar? First of all a SS 8mm IP can do 300cc of fuel, if that's not enough I'm sure Dieselmeken can get a P-pump to work on the Mercedes engine and there you have some 4-500cc of fuel. To burn that you need some serious boost. Like maybe 10bar or so. So when you have reached the maximum power achievable THEN you can ad some nitrous or water injection to increase the power beyond the limit
If you have to high IAT you need better cooling, not water. If you are low on power you have not enough fuel or boost. In my mind it's pretty crazy to build for let's say 400hp and run 600hp. Why not build for the power level you want to run and if that's not enough you increase the power till you hit the limit for everything
So a billet block with steel pistons and monster rods first of all. Then you need a billet head with CNC-porting and so on. Before 2000hp there are no need for any water or nitrous
Damn that was off topic
Hahahaha love the build though mate!!!
RE: OM605 intake building - whipplem104 - 05-18-2015
I think that might be my favorite post ever. Run 10 bar of boost and 2000hp. Sign me up. I have 15k-20k to spend on the engine in a w124 chassis and it needs to fit in the car with a/c and be capable of being a daily driver. Or were you talking about a tube frame chassis custom built engine from the ground up that was going to run 200-400k to build.
RE: OM605 intake building - F.R.A.S - 05-19-2015
(05-18-2015, 09:27 PM)whipplem104 I think that might be my favorite post ever. Run 10 bar of boost and 2000hp. Sign me up. I have 15k-20k to spend on the engine in a w124 chassis and it needs to fit in the car with a/c and be capable of being a daily driver. Or were you talking about a tube frame chassis custom built engine from the ground up that was going to run 200-400k to build.
Glad you liked it
Just a question. What does the chassis have to do with how much boost a turbo setup can produce? And If you can't see the irony in my post please read it again. I'm sure the prechambers will be a limiting factor, also the flow of the head, the camshafts and so on so yea sure some water or nitrous might be usable already at like 8-900hp. But really...No problem I can get you both a billet block, billet head and a billet crank if you like. Will be somewhat expensive though
RE: OM605 intake building - Turbo - 05-19-2015
in some tractor pulling 10bar is nothing, seen 20 bars of boost, but drive ability with athat can of engine in a daily driver would suck bad, need to spool 3 turbo, no spool and it will stop when the clutch go up, and I do not even want to think about starting that kind of engine cold, even at under 1:17 compression ration have some problem to start in cold and here it would be somthing like 1:10, if you do not lower compression rtio at tha kind of boost will be like a bomb that will blow you to kingdom come quite quickly...
RE: OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-19-2015
I agree about the power adders like NOS and W/M not being a great way to rely on power. However, we've installed a few Aquamist kits on the BMW turbo 6 engines and the boost in power is very noticeable (like driving a turbo car on a cool morning) That was my motive for the install.
RE: OM605 intake building - Booster - 05-19-2015
Also, if its cheap and easy why not?? W/M Kits can be made or even brought for the price of a tank of fuel... Nitrous gets a bit more expensive but still not a massive price to pay for quick spool etc
RE: OM605 intake building - whipplem104 - 05-19-2015
I began to think of it this way after spending countless hours and dollars building stuff to go fast. Do what makes sense. My point about what car it is in and what its purpose is has everything to do with building power. It is like the old saying that the engineers all want the car built around what they do. The exhaust guys want the car built around the exhaust, the design guys want it based on the design and the suspension guys want it around the suspension. Here we have a car that is already built and has limiting factors like space for what can be done and I presume dollars. And at the point of making much more than say around 450-500whp or the big torque numbers none of it is usable on the street. So for the 5 times a year that I can use more it is way cheaper spray some juice for that 5-10 seconds and have a car that works for all the regular needs.
W/M works great. Port injection works well to. Just smaller nozzles that can atomize the mixture properly. You get even distribution. I do not know but I would guess on a diesel it would really depend on the iat. It is not like you can run more timing as in a gas car and you are not supplementing pump gas octane rating.
Nitrous is fantastically cheap for the power gains especially on a boosted motor that you get the added benifits of the cooling effect.
RE: OM605 intake building - raysorenson - 05-19-2015
(05-17-2015, 06:54 PM)MFSuper90 Water injection actually adds power, lots of it honestly. It was night and day on our pulling tractor.
But again, I do agree with Fred. I was just saying what I've learned from our competition toys
MFSuper90, what rpm range does the pulling motor work in? Is it direct injected? Where is peak torque and HP? I'm curious to see how closely I can compare the tractor engine to my prechamber 603. If it works well on a high-revving IDI motor, I'll consider using it.
I've had so-so results with WI on a turbo audi gasser. I concluded it wan't worth messing with. I also lost power using C16 (117 MON) race gas vs VP109 (101 MON) due to the slower burn rate. Burn rate is also critical for power in my race-gas only Yamaha RD350 2 stroke motor.
RE: OM605 intake building - MFSuper90 - 05-19-2015
(05-19-2015, 06:48 PM)raysorenson(05-17-2015, 06:54 PM)MFSuper90 Water injection actually adds power, lots of it honestly. It was night and day on our pulling tractor.
But again, I do agree with Fred. I was just saying what I've learned from our competition toys
MFSuper90, what rpm range does the pulling motor work in? Is it direct injected? Where is peak torque and HP? I'm curious to see how closely I can compare the tractor engine to my prechamber 603. If it works well on a high-revving IDI motor, I'll consider using it.
I've had so-so results with WI on a turbo audi gasser. I concluded it wan't worth messing with. I also lost power using C16 (117 MON) race gas vs VP109 (101 MON) due to the slower burn rate. Burn rate is also critical for power in my race-gas only Yamaha RD350 2 stroke motor.
The engine we are using it on is a 6.354 Perkins, direct injected. Rpms has hardly any relevency to water injection, but our engine runs probably about 4500-5000rpm wide open. We control the water by a Hobbs switch, which is set for 24psi when our max boost is around 35ish. You must use a nozzle that will atomize the water, and ours sprays a cone shape. 100psi and above works good, anything. Above that is better, but it getting more complicated at above 150psi, which gets into crank driven water pumps, very expensive Simms valves, and etc.
The only thing that I'm not sure about is it being a IDI engine. But I don't see why that would bother it.
Higher horsepower engine than us in tractor pulling use water and turn 6000+rpm out of 500+ cubic inch engine. So rpm really isn't anything to be worried about
RE: OM605 intake building - DiseaselWeasel - 05-20-2015
Isn't water injection just the old-school method for charge cooling?
RE: OM605 intake building - MFSuper90 - 05-20-2015
(05-20-2015, 01:50 AM)DiseaselWeasel Isn't water injection just the old-school method for charge cooling?
Yes and no, it has sort of the same effect. Water actually turns into steam inside the cylinders, which in turns makes more power, whereas charge cooling cannot do that.
But before charge cooling was a common thing people often used water to combat high temps, now days everything has an intercooler.
Sorry for clogging up your intake thread duncan!
RE: OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-27-2015
Added some more aluminium to the transitions at the bell mouth so i could port them a bit more. Mostly got the plenumn built.
Still need to add the inlet and cap the back and add some fittings
RE: OM605 intake building - Eric78 - 05-28-2015
Just a question, when making a 605 manifold out of a 606 manilfold it the runner that gets cut off at the front or the rear?
RE: OM605 intake building - Duncansport - 05-28-2015
(05-28-2015, 02:26 AM)Eric78 Just a question, when making a 605 manifold out of a 606 manilfold it the runner that gets cut off at the front or the rear?
It's #4 that I cut out
RE: OM605 intake building - Hario' - 05-28-2015
![[Image: photo2-1.jpg]](http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/Mercedes_Power/media/photo2-1.jpg.html)
(05-28-2015, 02:26 AM)Eric78 Just a question, when making a 605 manifold out of a 606 manilfold it the runner that gets cut off at the front or the rear?
If you're using a 606.962 manifold, then cut #4 runner out and also cut out the 'V' between the #5 ports to clear the IP lines, like so:
RE: OM605 intake building - Eric78 - 05-29-2015
Cool, thanks, didn't even see the join in Duncan's manifold.
RE: OM605 intake building - DiseaselWeasel - 05-29-2015
N/A manifold :-)