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+--- Thread: in what car are the MW-pumps????? (/showthread.php?tid=667)
in what car are the MW-pumps????? - countach - 09-10-2009
what are the difference of M-pump and MW-pump? and what car, and engine did them sit?
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - ForcedInduction - 09-10-2009
Any 240D, 300D/CD/TD/SD sold in the USA and 300TD models sold in Europe with a turbo.
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - countach - 09-10-2009
(09-10-2009, 05:43 PM)ForcedInduction Any 240D, 300D/CD/TD/SD sold in the USA and 300TD models sold in Europe with a turbo.
ok so a 6cyl turbo -88 from europe haw MW-pump? did this pump element PES6MW80/320RS1104-1 fit on the pump from 6cyl turbodiesel -88 from europe?
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - ForcedInduction - 09-10-2009
No, no 6 cylinder engine had the MW pump. Everyhting from 86+ has an M.
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - countach - 09-11-2009
(09-10-2009, 07:19 PM)ForcedInduction No, no 6 cylinder engine had the MW pump. Everyhting from 86+ has an M.
ok! but what element fit on this pump from 6cyl 300turbo diesel 86+?
i want at lest 7mm element, i find on www.chinahanji.com a element be called PES4M70C420LS48 boschnumber 1 418 305 517 and one whit PES4M70C420LS48 boschnumber 1 418 502 015 did anyone of this fit the M-pump?? and what menas whit the number C420LS48?
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - tomnik - 09-11-2009
(09-11-2009, 05:35 AM)countach ok! but what element fit on this pump from 6cyl 300turbo diesel 86+?
i want at lest 7mm element, i find on www.chinahanji.com a element be called PES4M70C420LS48 boschnumber 1 418 305 517 and one whit PES4M70C420LS48 boschnumber 1 418 502 015 did anyone of this fit the M-pump?? and what menas whit the number C420LS48?
The C420... is the governor spec.
The 2 mentioned IPs (same #?) have 7 mm elements, but the cam profile is important. Diameter and height position of fuel supply bore in the element cylinder should fit to the cam profile which gives a (plunger) speed over travel curve. The bore and helix must be in relation to the curve. It will work (like the Myna elements do) but not as well as it should. Second, these chinese elements might have quality issues that result in uneven quantities of the single elements over the range of rpm.
Tom
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - countach - 09-11-2009
(09-11-2009, 05:57 AM)tomnik(09-11-2009, 05:35 AM)countach ok! but what element fit on this pump from 6cyl 300turbo diesel 86+?
i want at lest 7mm element, i find on www.chinahanji.com a element be called PES4M70C420LS48 boschnumber 1 418 305 517 and one whit PES4M70C420LS48 boschnumber 1 418 502 015 did anyone of this fit the M-pump?? and what menas whit the number C420LS48?
The C420... is the governor spec.
The 2 mentioned IPs (same #?) have 7 mm elements, but the cam profile is important. Diameter and height position of fuel supply bore in the element cylinder should fit to the cam profile which gives a (plunger) speed over travel curve. The bore and helix must be in relation to the curve. It will work (like the Myna elements do) but not as well as it should. Second, these chinese elements might have quality issues that result in uneven quantities of the single elements over the range of rpm.
Tom
so you think that the element fits into the M-pump. is the same element mynta using? so this is an aftermarket element, which does not work as good as the mynta? someone who has tested the elements from chinahanji?
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - tomnik - 09-11-2009
(09-11-2009, 06:12 AM)countach so you think that the element fits into the M-pump. is the same element mynta using? so this is an aftermarket element, which does not work as good as the mynta? someone who has tested the elements from chinahanji?
these elements will physically fit into the M-pump (of the 603 engine).
The question is whether the cam profile is different from the a.m. IPs.
Myna uses another 7 mm element.
Even these elements were Bosch original they would not work perfect in the 603 IP because of differences in cam profile. On top these are aftermarket with probably insufficient quality.
Tom
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - countach - 09-11-2009
(09-11-2009, 07:25 AM)tomnik(09-11-2009, 06:12 AM)countach so you think that the element fits into the M-pump. is the same element mynta using? so this is an aftermarket element, which does not work as good as the mynta? someone who has tested the elements from chinahanji?
these elements will physically fit into the M-pump (of the 603 engine).
The question is whether the cam profile is different from the a.m. IPs.
Myna uses another 7 mm element.
Even these elements were Bosch original they would not work perfect in the 603 IP because of differences in cam profile. On top these are aftermarket with probably insufficient quality.
Tom
but the price is very nice on the china element.
poor quality,is that LIFE LONG is not as good as bosch, or is the poor precision of stuff
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - tomnik - 09-14-2009
poor quality in fab, resulting in uneven individual quantities which is rough idle or rough/smoky running in the upper rpms.
The hardness of the chinese stuff was o.k. but the material of the original BOSCH is very special and extra limited in composit tolerances.
I can not imagine that the Chinese use this (expensive) material. On the other hand I can not imagine that the chinese elements will fail on material.
Tom
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - raderauto - 03-12-2012
we also can offer the good quality material, if you have the sample, we can produce them for you for MW element.
For 1 418 502 015 , It seems like a BOSCH Delivery Valve, not element.
ANY questions, you can also contact me : Richard@raderauto.com
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - lgreeley83 - 03-12-2012
Hmmm.....
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - OM616 - 03-15-2012
(03-12-2012, 10:13 PM)raderauto we also can offer the good quality material, if you have the sample, we can produce them for you for MW element.
For 1 418 502 015 , It seems like a BOSCH Delivery Valve, not element.
ANY questions, you can also contact me : Richard@raderauto.com
8mm MW element?
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - yankneck696 - 03-15-2012
Isn't this the same company that a group buy was tried?
Ed
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - DeliveryValve - 03-15-2012
(03-15-2012, 05:20 PM)yankneck696 Isn't this the same company that a group buy was tried?
Ed
Yes it was. At first Richard@rader said they had them in stock. I paid them through Western Union and then he told me that they didn't have any. He ended up giving me a refund through PayPal. I then contacted another Chinese company, this time they took the money and ran to be never heard again. Still fuming about that, but I took the risk and I lost.
.
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - raderauto - 03-15-2012
(03-15-2012, 05:29 PM)DeliveryValve(03-15-2012, 05:20 PM)yankneck696 Isn't this the same company that a group buy was tried?
Ed
Yes it was. At first Richard@rader said they had them in stock. I paid them through Western Union and then he told me that they didn't have any. He ended up giving me a refund through PayPal. I then contacted another Chinese company, this time they took the money and ran to be never heard again. Still fuming about that, but I took the risk and I lost.
.
Dude, Good day!!!
thanks for your explaination. Very pity that you did lost some money on other suppliers . But we will of course offer good solutions .
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - raderauto - 03-15-2012
(03-15-2012, 05:29 PM)DeliveryValve(03-15-2012, 05:20 PM)yankneck696 Isn't this the same company that a group buy was tried?
Ed
Yes it was. At first Richard@rader said they had them in stock. I paid them through Western Union and then he told me that they didn't have any. He ended up giving me a refund through PayPal. I then contacted another Chinese company, this time they took the money and ran to be never heard again. Still fuming about that, but I took the risk and I lost.
.
Man, can you please let me know what company you lost the money to ?? which company took the money and ran to be never heard again??????????????
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - OM616 - 03-15-2012
(03-15-2012, 09:28 PM)raderauto But we will of course offer good solutions .
I guess I do not understand. Are you talking about your financial damage control, (refunding money to a customer after selling a part you did not have), or do you have an alternative 8mm element option that is available?
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - tomnik - 03-16-2012
Hi OM616,
is 8mm what you want?
I was also thinking about this diameter for a small production run.
After my experience with 7.5mm Floyd elements and my new prototype, I can prove that 8mm is a good diameter, even usable for stock setup (turbo).
Cost and quality are well known here and I don't need a list for a group buy.
I just make some and let you know.
If you want you can pm me your target ccm or roughly the mods you did on your MW elements.
Otherwise I design according to Floyd or the 6.5mm Holly of the past.
Tom
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - OM616 - 03-16-2012
(03-16-2012, 01:38 AM)tomnik Hi OM616,
is 8mm what you want?
I was also thinking about this diameter for a small production run.
After my experience with 7.5mm Floyd elements and my new prototype, I can prove that 8mm is a good diameter, even usable for stock setup (turbo).
Cost and quality are well known here and I don't need a list for a group buy.
I just make some and let you know.
If you want you can pm me your target ccm or roughly the mods you did on your MW elements.
Otherwise I design according to Floyd or the 6.5mm Holly of the past.
Tom
8mm seems like a good step up from 5.5/6. The 10mm element is not a "Plug & Play" element for our small engines, as the stock nozzles are too small and the DV's float.
The 10mm elements that I re-ground the end of injection helix to reduce the total delivery worked well during the 300 miles before the trans blew up. Not enough run time to evaluate the effort, but I was able to conclude that the entire injection system needs to be set up for the high rate of injection in order to prevent nailing and high EGTs at reasonable fueling quantities, (although the EGTs all in all were much less than the 5.5 elements, I think with a proper set up, the EGTs could be even lower).
For 99% of the members, a plug and play element is a must, so the 8mm would fit that market well. Additional nozzle and DV changes would enhance the 8mm elements benefits, but unlike with the 10mm element, they are would not be required.
I purchased several sample 10mm elements to look at, and picked one that would work well for my intentions. It was a "thick" style which I liked because I want to run at least 200bar pop pressure and the thick barrels will take more abuse. I added additional fill ports as well. The end of injection angle was almost flat, I do not recall what the angle was that I made them, but it was not much, the goal was not to deliver a lot of fuel, but rather deliver the fuel in less time.
For the next ones I am going to do, I want to add a retard notch for Idle because I want limit the advance mechanism and run more initial advance for better bottom end, but that will be too advanced for easy starting and quite idle with out a retard notch on the plunger.
I think you would not have a problem selling 8mm MW elements. I have a couple of MW pumps to do yet, two for me and one for a friend. After inspecting the china elements, I found that the delivery balance quantity issue is due to crude manufacturing processes, the end of delivery helix is cut using a cut off wheel of some type, and every one was different. After I reground the helix, they balanced up very nicely.
I also want to regrind the cam to reduce the lift, as, with the 10mm element 75% of the stroke is after delivery and is just pushing fuel out and in the element, the reduced stroke will allow more time with the plunger on the base circle of the cam allowing for higher rpm and better filling at high speeds.
I would much rather put one of your elements in a friends pump than a Chinese one I modified if I had the choice. We may be able to do something here, let me think about it.
RE: in what car are the MW-pumps????? - tomnik - 03-17-2012
O.K.
we are on the same track.
I'll start the basic preparation, details we can determine later on.
Btw. I will use the "small" barrels for the reason of correct cam lift/stroke. Otherwise I have to relocate the supply bore position.
Don't worry about increased pop pressure using the "small" barrels.
Tom