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+--- Thread: Diesel powered 560 SEL (/showthread.php?tid=6684)
Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 08-15-2015
Hello everyone!
As my second OM powered car (first was a veggieburning '89 300D), I have bought a '91 w126 560 SEL with a naturally aspirated OM602. I don't like naturally aspirated engines atall, but this was a great opportunity because since few years we can not register cars with other engines then the factory one, and this was homologated before this law came active, so it is streetlegal. The plan is to bring it to 300ish horses with a laggy diesel engine, maybe to compound it. I will post here everything after starting to work on the car (for the moment I am on the other side of the globe). First of all I will get the bodywork to 100% (started to have rust bubbles here and there), sort out the bushings, get every detail functional, change fluids, pads, and everything else an old lady deserves.
Then I will get some pump elements, make an outside adjustable alda (I will maybe try out to do an electronically controled outside adjustable alda, wich's reactions can be operated from inside, we'll see that later), then get the turbo, exhaust manifold, wastegate, intercooler, exhaust piping, IC piping and to improvise something to split the air in 5 for the N/A intake manifold. I would really like to do a proper job, so I won't hurry. As far as looks I like the car as original, maybe I will drop it a few centimeters. It has SLS on the rear corners, working with the 602. It has some really wide 16 inch rial mesh wheels with nice big lips, I relly like that 80's looks, so I don't think I will change to bigger ones. As far as I do not plan to upgrade the front brakes. We'll see what it gets on the table. It will be my daily driver at home, so I will keep it always running. Thanks for the useful infos on the forum, with this project I will try to add to it!
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - EmJay - 08-16-2015
Too bad it doesn't have the 603. That motor might be a bit anemic for a car that size. Still, look forward to the build, I've considered such a project before.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 08-17-2015
(08-16-2015, 12:16 PM)EmJay Too bad it doesn't have the 603. That motor might be a bit anemic for a car that size. Still, look forward to the build, I've considered such a project before.
Thaks! I think it will do the job, and I guess it will have a nice fuel economy aswell. Yeah, I like torque, so if I were to choose I would go directly to the om606. Or at least 603. But it is homologated with an om602, so 602 shall be! That's how things evoluate the most, by gettin' restrictions and finding solutions.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - Edian727 - 08-19-2015
theres a way to stroke the 602 to 2.9l witch will be better then the 2.5 it is in a big car like that. thats almost as much as a 603.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 08-23-2015
Is it only the stroke what is different? Bore, therefore pistons are the same?
Here is a picture of the car as it is, untouched for the moment. It layed in a field for 4 years, but started with a new battery.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - Hario' - 09-14-2015
You will have to wear a trench coat, leather trilby and sunglasses whenever you drive that thing.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 09-14-2015
Yes, else the police will be sure that I have stolen the car. But if I do as described, I guess nobody will ever check my engine numbers. So I'll not only polish the paint, but my leather shoes also.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 01-19-2016
So a bit of update. I haven't really worked on the car being in south america and in switzerland, but I was a bit home and I started lookimg at her and doing small things. First I got the car jacked up, removed all wheels, looked a bit at everything. The car was pretty well maintained before she was left in the field. Unhappily there are thing non professionally done with the diesel conversion, but I'll talk about that later. I tought I could refurbish all 4 rims while I'm home, but being too busy, I only did one and the wheel nuts. I also bought new tires, 215 sections front and rear, rims are 9j and 8j rial meshies. They are going to look awesome I think with new rubber and this chassis. At the very end of this month i'll get home for 3 weeks, and i'll be starting with buying a 97' c250 turbodiesel manual estate as spare parts (engine, 6mm pump elements, gearbox and clutch to get started) and i'll begin working on the body. That's by far the worst part of the car. Also the high pressure line from the sls pump is leaking, there are electronical issues, etc. The car will relly need some love in the future. More pictures and progress next month!
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 02-12-2016
A little update again. Bought yesterday a w124 250 turbodiesel for it's turbocharged om602. The guy told me he'll give me the whole car for the price of the engine, but until I got there, he cut the rear end off it. Sothe whole thing ended up looking like this.. But anyway, the engine turns like a swiss clock even like this.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 05-26-2016
Update on the project again; been using the car for a week or so to spot it's weak points. The gerabox definetly needs to be changed, clutch aswell for the new turbo engine waiting for it. The transmission on it is a heavy duty lowrange one (711.110), with a 6,15/1 first gear. Way too low for it even with it's original rear end, second however is too high to start. Soi've spent some time searching for a manual box that will handle some torque aswell, and I found a 716.641 from a w210 270 cdi. Even on the pictures I can see it has a different axle to go in the clutch disc. But I can not clearly see if the bell housing pattern fits or not. Any suggestions on what sort of clutch and pressure plate should I use for it to make it work with the 250d aspirated flywheel? Any help greatly apreciated!
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - Petar - 05-26-2016
The trans will bolt up to the engine but the flywheel you have won't work. You need a dual mass, or a single mass conversion made for dual mass sprinters. Easiest way is to get complete W210 270cdi dual mass flywheel and clutch.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 05-26-2016
(05-26-2016, 03:29 PM)Petar The trans will bolt up to the engine but the flywheel you have won't work. You need a dual mass, or a single mass conversion made for dual mass sprinters. Easiest way is to get complete W210 270cdi dual mass flywheel and clutch.
Thanks alot! But I might be wrong, did not touch yet the gearbox or clutch, but I guess the aspirated 250D w124 had dual mass flywheel. The engine and clutch comes from that model. So do I need the CDI's flywheel aswell, or only pressure plate and clutch?
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 05-26-2016
Oh and is there any difference between sizes on the 2,2 cdi or 2,7 cdi clutch? Should I go for the 2,7 cdi one, or is the same thing the 2,2 cdi?
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - STDGer - 05-31-2016
Man, That seems to be wrong. The W124 250 turbo is in evry year om 602, with Single mass flywheel. the latest 124 93 up to96 had 605 na, but when u say uve got a turbo u should search for new flywheel, clutch an pressure plate.
Greetings Maurice
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - Petar - 06-05-2016
I'm not 100% sure on this but as far as i know the 711.110 gearbox works only with single mass flywheel so you certainly don't have a dual mass.
Any dual mass flywheel should work but i don't know if you can bolt up a clutch that will work with the 6 speed. So 220 or 270 cdi is the easiest option. Besides the 270 cdi is the strongest dual mass flywheel available.
Part numbers for 220 and 270 cdi clutches and flywheels are different.
If you are aiming for high power then i would recommend single mass conversion flywheel - CK9834F
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 06-22-2016
(06-05-2016, 12:39 PM)Petar I'm not 100% sure on this but as far as i know the 711.110 gearbox works only with single mass flywheel so you certainly don't have a dual mass.
Any dual mass flywheel should work but i don't know if you can bolt up a clutch that will work with the 6 speed. So 220 or 270 cdi is the easiest option. Besides the 270 cdi is the strongest dual mass flywheel available.
Part numbers for 220 and 270 cdi clutches and flywheels are different.
If you are aiming for high power then i would recommend single mass conversion flywheel - CK9834F
Thanks alot!
Then I will hunt for a 270 cdi clutch, flywheel and tranny as it was in a car, I don't think I will need a single mass flywheel conversion. Target is around 300 HP if everything goes well, and the car will be a daily driven one, so I don't think it's worth loosing the smoother low rpm.'s.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 10-16-2016
Can someone please tell me what should I go for as a gearbox? Is it better the 716.641 from a 270cdi (I think w211), or should I go for the 716.654 from a 220cdi from 2008? And also for the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel, should I go for the ones from the same 220cdi, or rather a 2,9 om602'd sprinter's one? Any help greatly apreciated
i will post these days the progeess made durimg the last months also
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - addi.bigg - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 02:37 AM)mmetzdavid Can someone please tell me what should I go for as a gearbox? Is it better the 716.641 from a 270cdi (I think w211), or should I go for the 716.654 from a 220cdi from 2008? And also for the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel, should I go for the ones from the same 220cdi, or rather a 2,9 om602'd sprinter's one? Any help greatly apreciated
722.6 automatic transmission?
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 10-16-2016
No thanks, I like 3 pedals
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 11-01-2016
So, a bit of update.
I have the new gearbox for the car, and also a new flywheel, clutch and pressure plate. I have decided to buy in the end the w210's 270cdi 6 speed box, and a c220 cdi clutch system. I also lowered a bit the front suspension by cutting 2 coils out of it, and started working on the bodywork. I also ordered new Dieselmeken 7,5mm elements for the injection pump. That sais, what do you guys recommend? Modifying the turbo engine's pump (it has alda on it) or the N/A engine's pump? I will anyway put outside adjustable alda on it. So I would rather convert the simpler one, I don't need two aldas on the same pump. Is that right?
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 02-20-2017
So, a bit of update;
Since last time I posted, the heart of my superturbodiesel is nearly done: the pump. Bought some 7,5mm dieselmeken elements, and intalled them myself. It was quite a pain in a**, but had to do it myself, being a student. Outside adjustable alda is still not done, and the pump must be calibrated at a shop when I finished the alda system. But elements have been swapped.
The front suspension has been rebuilt, shortened a bit the springs (the car was way too high with the 560 springs and only the om602's weight.
I also have two questions about the turbo and intercooler setup. Found a Holset HE351VE turbo. Is it ok to my om602? Has someone tested it in such an application? And regarding the intercooler, I found a 80cmx17cmx10cm one. Is it going to be big enaugh?
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 02-20-2017
The body waiting for the bodywork, and the turbo om602 engine from the donor car
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 02-20-2017
Few pics of the rebuilt pump whitout the alda system
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 03-24-2017
Small question: if I did not remove the governor from the pump's axle, should I set it (with the pump blocking method) to 8 to 10° ATDC on the first cylinder? Thanks.
By the way I built an adjustable alda for it, and tested it at a local bosch diesel shop, it has been set to 50/120cc full load. Also bought a few weeks ago a new holset hx40w (16ccm turbine housing) and a 30cmx60cmx10cm universal intercooler. Will upload some pictures soon.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 03-26-2017
And here are the turbo and the intercooler
going to be a bit laggy I think but that's fine for me.
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 04-08-2017
And here is a short video of the first start. I adjusted the pump to 14° ATDC. Do you think I should adjut the advande a bit more?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=rMicRqiPk2g
RE: Diesel powered 560 SEL - mmetzdavid - 05-28-2017
Since I readjusted the pump timing, runs much better now. Also found out that the cyl. 2 was leaking oil from the exhaust valve. So i've decided to remove the heads from both my engines (aspirated and turbo 602) and if I anyway have to rebuild one, do the spirated one and bolt it to the turbo bottom end. I've ported a bit, polished and compleatly rebuilt the aspirated head, calibrated the injectors to 150 bar at the local bosch diesel shop, and here is the result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftrqMmsZffo
The injection pump needs a bit more fine adjustement, but goes much better. In a few weeks from now I hope the whole turbo system is going to be hooked up too. Anyway, foud no info here on this subject, but if anyone wants to try it: the N/A heads work fine with the turbo bottom end.