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+--- Thread: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? (/showthread.php?tid=6742)
Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-15-2015
Hi All,
I'm getting a Racor diesel filter/ water separator for my OM606 with 6mm elements.
I need to know, what is the maximum diesel flow rate for that setup, in liters or gallons per hour ?
Thanks,
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-15-2015
that is a strange question!!!
Usually the system comes with several relief pressure systems, at stock filter u have a special orifice for that dampens pressure in the return line, the pump itself has a banjo bolt with a relief pressure set at .6 BAR.
but a stock 606 usually has a max injection of 65cubic centimeters at 1000 strokes, so u can make the maths, account for 30% more flow to keep positive pressure in the system
regards
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-15-2015
(09-15-2015, 01:09 PM)barrote that is a strange question!!!
Usually the system comes with several relief pressure systems, at stock filter u have a special orifice for that dampens pressure in the return line, the pump itself has a banjo bolt with a relief pressure set at .6 BAR.
but a stock 606 usually has a max injection of 65cubic centimeters at 1000 strokes, so u can make the maths, account for 30% more flow to keep positive pressure in the system
regards
Thanks for the reply.
I need to know because the filter / water separator comes in different sizes depending on the flow required.
So for 1000 strokes of the injection pump, how many revolutions of the engine is that?
i.e are the 1000 stokes per minute if the crank is turning 1000 rpm? or some ratio?
And what's the red line on a stock 606? 5000rpm?
Thanks,
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - m1tch - 09-15-2015
I believe the 6mm OM606 pump flows 90cc - guessing this is per minute? Tuned pumps flow 120-160cc.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-15-2015
(09-15-2015, 02:59 PM)m1tch I believe the 6mm OM606 pump flows 90cc - guessing this is per minute? Tuned pumps flow 120-160cc.
Thanks, I was going to do the calculations with 100cc to be safe.
Although, it must be somehow related to rpm. I want to calculate it at red line, again to be safe.
Thanks,
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-15-2015
(09-15-2015, 02:59 PM)m1tch I believe the 6mm OM606 pump flows 90cc - guessing this is per minute? Tuned pumps flow 120-160cc.
only in dreams
stock fuel is 65cc, tuned u may be able to have 100cc , if u can open the complete rack......
every 720 degres 2 revolutions all cylinders have one injection (stroke) in one minute at 1000 rpm u have 500 strokes times 5 cylinder times 65cc , max fueling.
something like that , anyway for a fuel filter is a lot of math , buy one with 20cm long and 15cm diameter, it will be good enough.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - m1tch - 09-16-2015
(09-15-2015, 03:21 PM)barrote(09-15-2015, 02:59 PM)m1tch I believe the 6mm OM606 pump flows 90cc - guessing this is per minute? Tuned pumps flow 120-160cc.
only in dreams
stock fuel is 65cc, tuned u may be able to have 100cc , if u can open the complete rack......
every 720 degres 2 revolutions all cylinders have one injection (stroke) in one minute at 1000 rpm u have 500 strokes times 5 cylinder times 65cc , max fueling.
something like that , anyway for a fuel filter is a lot of math , buy one with 20cm long and 15cm diameter, it will be good enough.
Well this tuned Dieselmeken 6mm pump is at 150cc as its simply had the rack modified.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXY6fYnmBU
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Hario' - 09-16-2015
If its 100cc/min MAX that's 6000cc/hr = 6L/hr.
If you gona get 150cc MAX super pump that's 9L/hr.
Where is the complication?
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - zenins - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 05:23 AM)Hario If its 100cc/min MAX that's 6000cc/hr = 6L/hr.
If you gona get 150cc MAX super pump that's 9L/hr.
Where is the complication?
I don't think that it's correct... You're saying that with 6mm elements, if you're going at full throttle it will consume 6 liters per hour..?
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Hario' - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 06:15 AM)zenins(09-16-2015, 05:23 AM)Hario If its 100cc/min MAX that's 6000cc/hr = 6L/hr.
If you gona get 150cc MAX super pump that's 9L/hr.
Where is the complication?
I don't think that it's correct... You're saying that with 6mm elements, if you're going at full throttle it will consume 6 liters per hour..?
Yes. That is less than 2 gallons, think how far you would travel at full throttle for 1 hour. Not bad MPG really..
Also fuelling equipment is always sized for max flow situation, you wouldn't size a fuel pump to deliver the fuel requirement of your engine at half throttle would you?
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - m1tch - 09-16-2015
I believe is 90cc per 1000 revolutions - the pump spins at half engine speed so would mean something like 2,500 at redline - I am sure Barrote will let me know that everything I say is wrong though.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - zenins - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 06:34 AM)Hario(09-16-2015, 06:15 AM)zenins(09-16-2015, 05:23 AM)Hario If its 100cc/min MAX that's 6000cc/hr = 6L/hr.
If you gona get 150cc MAX super pump that's 9L/hr.
Where is the complication?
I don't think that it's correct... You're saying that with 6mm elements, if you're going at full throttle it will consume 6 liters per hour..?
Yes. That is less than 2 gallons, think how far you would travel at full throttle for 1 hour. Not bad MPG really..
Also fuelling equipment is always sized for max flow situation, you wouldn't size a fuel pump to deliver the fuel requirement of your engine at half throttle would you?
I don't know if it's measured ccm/min but if so than it should be something like this - 100ccm/min * 60(min.) * 6(element count) ~ 36l/h (max fueling at full load)
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Hario' - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 08:39 AM)zenins(09-16-2015, 06:34 AM)Hario(09-16-2015, 06:15 AM)zenins I don't think that it's correct... You're saying that with 6mm elements, if you're going at full throttle it will consume 6 liters per hour..?
Yes. That is less than 2 gallons, think how far you would travel at full throttle for 1 hour. Not bad MPG really..
Also fuelling equipment is always sized for max flow situation, you wouldn't size a fuel pump to deliver the fuel requirement of your engine at half throttle would you?
I don't know if it's measured ccm/min but if so than it should be something like this - 100ccm/min * 60(min.) * 6(element count) ~ 36l/h (max fueling at full load)
I thought the pump flow volume is described as total cc's for pump not per element? Stand to be corrected btw.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-16-2015
no mitch , what is fisically imposible is a 6mm element , deliver 150cc!!! what what do i know abou that!!!
6 liters in one hour , no either, the required flow have to be at least 3 times that, my 605 burns 10 liters every 100km so at 200km hour burns 15lts/100km so .... in one hour 30lts
i dont know about yours....usually cc is by element , each element is checked individually!!!
BTW mitch who sold u a 6mm 150cc pump ? was dieselmeken?
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - m1tch - 09-16-2015
Like this 6mm pump at 150cc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXY6fYnmBU
And 8mm EDC pump running 140cc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0RZjbSbRvU
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-16-2015
well fist of all , u got to know of what u´re watching,
idle problem he was talking about , renders the pump unable to run in a day driver. i can do the same.
the delivery valves he mention , well ... i wonder wich type of test injector was he using, i never tryed with a 100bar one but i had tried with 200bar, and i had tryed many other things i can´t write here.
i belive the man in the vídeo, sometimes i make business with him as far as for me he is a honest man!!
what i was trying to say is that u wont be able to run a EDC 6mm pump with 150cc in your day driver, he showed u a 5cyl m pump with mech governor with rack at 21mm wich is nothing , what i would like to know is wich element is (part number) wich DV is wich cam shaft is, wich dv holder is, wich test injector was, those things u can´t see, wich all afect the injection quantity!!! and quality!!!
regards mitch , and buy one of those! if u can´t i make one for u , cheaper but with less fuel like 110cc.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - tgg416 - 09-16-2015
Dieselmeken pumps gives fuel from 120 to 300 cc depending on what you ordered.
Im pretty sure its 120 cc pr 1000 strokes at the dieselpump and that is rotating half of engine speed( 2000rpm)
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - m1tch - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 01:47 PM)barrote well fist of all , u got to know of what u´re watching,
idle problem he was talking about , renders the pump unable to run in a day driver. i can do the same.
the delivery valves he mention , well ... i wonder wich type of test injector was he using, i never tryed with a 100bar one but i had tried with 200bar, and i had tryed many other things i can´t write here.
i belive the man in the vídeo, sometimes i make business with him as far as for me he is a honest man!!
what i was trying to say is that u wont be able to run a EDC 6mm pump with 150cc in your day driver, he showed u a 5cyl m pump with mech governor with rack at 21mm wich is nothing , what i would like to know is wich element is (part number) wich DV is wich cam shaft is, wich dv holder is, wich test injector was, those things u can´t see, wich all afect the injection quantity!!! and quality!!!
regards mitch , and buy one of those! if u can´t i make one for u , cheaper but with less fuel like 110cc.
You have pretty much argued with me since my first ever post, please don't reply to anything I post up, I am researching everything I can from other members/suppliers - I am not going to be doing down the usual route, will just be listening to anyone else apart from yourself, everyone else has been really helpful so far on this forum.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - baldur - 09-16-2015
Yes the measure is in cc per 1000 injections per cylinder, or quite simply, µl per injection event.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 02:45 PM)m1tchpeace!!! man, peace!!!(09-16-2015, 01:47 PM)barrote well fist of all , u got to know of what u´re watching,
idle problem he was talking about , renders the pump unable to run in a day driver. i can do the same.
the delivery valves he mention , well ... i wonder wich type of test injector was he using, i never tryed with a 100bar one but i had tried with 200bar, and i had tryed many other things i can´t write here.
i belive the man in the vídeo, sometimes i make business with him as far as for me he is a honest man!!
what i was trying to say is that u wont be able to run a EDC 6mm pump with 150cc in your day driver, he showed u a 5cyl m pump with mech governor with rack at 21mm wich is nothing , what i would like to know is wich element is (part number) wich DV is wich cam shaft is, wich dv holder is, wich test injector was, those things u can´t see, wich all afect the injection quantity!!! and quality!!!
regards mitch , and buy one of those! if u can´t i make one for u , cheaper but with less fuel like 110cc.
You have pretty much argued with me since my first ever post, please don't reply to anything I post up, I am researching everything I can from other members/suppliers - I am not going to be doing down the usual route, will just be listening to anyone else apart from yourself, everyone else has been really helpful so far on this forum.
i´m not around to sell whatever u think i am.... give it a try dismantle a pump and rebuild it with sereveral size elements like whatever u can lay your hand on , test , test , test ... and in the end u may end up discovering some new things that others already had.
BTW if no one else is running 150cc pumps without 7 and over elements why would someone be able to? that is the question i was answering.
regarding your person , i dont have nothing personal against u , if u come by my town give me a visit i´ll show my experiences with those MB´s i own.
regards
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-16-2015
(09-16-2015, 03:16 PM)baldur Yes the measure is in cc per 1000 injections per cylinder, or quite simply, µl per injection event.
So how do I do the math to figure out the maximum flow of the engine?
I'm not sure if I need to divide red line engine rpm (6000) by 4 because it's a 4 stroke, or by 2 as tgg416 said.
My brain says if it's injecting 100cc per 1000 injections per cylinder, at 6000 rpm, there are 1500 injection events per minute, per cylinder.
(Because it's a 4 stroke, each cylinder would only have one injection for every 4 rotations of the engine)
so in one minute at 6000 rpm each cylinder would be getting 150cc - so 150cc * 6 = 900ml per minute = 54liters per hour.
Does anyone disagree with that?
Thanks,
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-17-2015
ok , every 720º the engine has 6 fueling events !!! four stroke at each cylinder, intake , compression, combustion, exaust.
100cc each 1000 strokes times 6 cylinder.
6000 RPM is about 3000 injection events times 6, (each cylinder has one event every 720º)
3000times 6 times 100cc times 60 minutes give flow rate by hour.
usually people use 250lts/ hour fuel pumps and filters. with a 200lts hour a superpump does not work well.
regards.
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-17-2015
(09-17-2015, 03:34 AM)barrote ok , every 720º the engine has 6 fueling events !!! four stroke at each cylinder, intake , compression, combustion, exaust.
100cc each 1000 strokes times 6 cylinder.
6000 RPM is about 3000 injection events times 6, (each cylinder has one event every 720º)
3000times 6 times 100cc times 60 minutes give flow rate by hour.
usually people use 250lts/ hour fuel pumps and filters. with a 200lts hour a superpump does not work well.
regards.
That still can't be right though.
3000 *6 * 100c * 60 = 108000000cc / hr = 108000lt/hour. Way off.
We're still doing something wrong.
Doing what I did above, with your input, at 6000rpm, there is an injection event per cylinder every 720def, or 3000 of them every minute, every cylinder.
So That means it's getting 300cc per minute per cylinder.
300cc * 6 * 60 = 108000 cc / hr = 108 lr / hr.
Thanks,
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 09-17-2015
pretty much that , 108 lts hour.... that seem quite reasonable...
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Hario' - 09-17-2015
So in essence I'm going to use the first Bosch 044 looking thing I find at the scrap yard..
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-17-2015
(09-17-2015, 10:00 AM)Hario So in essence I'm going to use the first Bosch 044 looking thing I find at the scrap yard..
The racor 230R is rated at 117 l/hr, that's what I'm going with.
I got 10 microns, hand primer and 12v heater.
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - baldur - 09-17-2015
To make these calculations easier: http://www.foo.is/calc/dieselpower.html
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - m1tch - 09-17-2015
(09-17-2015, 11:56 AM)baldur To make these calculations easier: http://www.foo.is/calc/dieselpower.html
Thank you so much for that - that is a really good calculator
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - tgg416 - 09-17-2015
Forget the four stroke thing.
Example: 120 cc is at 1000 diesel shots, and that is 2000rpm on the engine for each cylinder.
I dont know what the fuel amount is at lower or higher rpm.
Cant you ask Gøran direct ?
He answere all people that ask whatevery question,,,,
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Grecy - 09-17-2015
(09-17-2015, 11:56 AM)baldur To make these calculations easier: http://www.foo.is/calc/dieselpower.html
Nice! Thankyou.
-Dan
RE: Maximum flow rate for 606 with 6mm elements? - Volker407 - 09-23-2015
(09-15-2015, 12:13 PM)Grecy Hi All,
I'm getting a Racor diesel filter/ water separator for my OM606 with 6mm elements.
I need to know, what is the maximum diesel flow rate for that setup, in liters or gallons per hour ?
Thanks,
-Dan
Your fuel filter / water separator combo should be suitable for 200-300L/h.
That is valid for the original mechanical presupply pump and electric presupply pumps like "Bosch 044".
You also have to consider overflow volume.
Gruß
Volker