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+--- Thread: OM606 competition camshaft options (/showthread.php?tid=6899)
OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 11-29-2015
OM606 competition camshaft options
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - MFSuper90 - 11-29-2015
You have options or are you looking for options?
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 11-29-2015
(11-29-2015, 05:23 PM)MFSuper90 You have options or are you looking for options?
seeking alternatives
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - MFSuper90 - 11-29-2015
Maybe FRAS or EDH will have some input.
I have used Crower cams in previous diesels before, but never a Mercedes.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - F.R.A.S - 11-30-2015
We have camshafts in two stages.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - Turbo - 11-30-2015
FRAS are there any measurement regrading how the twos influence the volumetric efficiency of the engine depending on rpm
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 11-30-2015
(11-30-2015, 02:14 AM)F.R.A.S We have camshafts in two stages.
What the data of the two satage camshaft?
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - Hario' - 12-01-2015
(11-30-2015, 01:26 PM)offroaddieselhu(11-30-2015, 02:14 AM)F.R.A.S We have camshafts in two stages.
What the data of the two satage camshaft?
offroaddieselhu
I think FRAS man means 2 stages of camshafts, and I expect the profiles to be secret.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-01-2015
(12-01-2015, 08:07 AM)Hario(11-30-2015, 01:26 PM)offroaddieselhu(11-30-2015, 02:14 AM)F.R.A.S We have camshafts in two stages.
What the data of the two satage camshaft?
offroaddieselhu
I think FRAS man means 2 stages of camshafts, and I expect the profiles to be secret.
THX
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - whipplem104 - 12-01-2015
Camshaft profiles cannot be a secret unless you do not measure it. It take some very basic tools to measure a camshaft for lift and duration.
What you also want to know is how they were made. Was the base circle changed. What the ramp is? Lobe separation and timing?
I do not know why anyone would buy a camshaft without specs. No cam manufacturer sells cams without specs.
I had custom cams made for the m104 gasoline engine and posted the specs before I even pulled the trigger. And why I went with the profile and the stock cam profiles. The reason you buy from someone instead of doing it yourself is they did all the hard work already and are not ripping you off. And should be able to show some dyno results of the change.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - raysorenson - 12-01-2015
Base circle is changed. He made shims to go under the lifters.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-01-2015
(12-01-2015, 12:38 PM)raysorenson Base circle is changed. He made shims to go under the lifters.
OMG
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - whipplem104 - 12-01-2015
Still no profile. Lift?? Duration? Ramp??
I am not saying they are not good because who would know?
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - raysorenson - 12-02-2015
(11-30-2015, 06:13 PM)Tito Why would sonic waves not make it to the turbine? I highly believe in equal length runners. not so much on a twin scroll though. However, I did a log-style manifold once and it spooled up like hell...
Not using the twin scroll has the possibility that your pulse is going back into another cilinder.
Reducing volume is a real benefit at the intake. I think the biggest problem in turbo-spooling is the rotating mass in the turbo. Thats why twin turbo.
(12-01-2015, 02:46 PM)offroaddieselhu(12-01-2015, 12:38 PM)raysorenson Base circle is changed. He made shims to go under the lifters.
OMG
offroaddieselhu
OMG what? Regrinds are bad?
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - F.R.A.S - 12-04-2015
The Stg2 cams have 10.5mm lift. The Stg1 cams I don't remember from the top of my head but installing Stg2 cams today so have the info on my desk.
And off course the cams is a bit of a secret. If you can measure them fine, do so. But it's not any fun when people copy the work. I think we are a pretty transparent company really and tell more then we hide. I actually even think the specs of both cams are on this forum already.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - whipplem104 - 12-04-2015
So is that 10.5mm on both inlet and exhaust?
What kind of power gains are you seeing with them? Do you have any dyno numbers on a before and after? All things equal except the cams?
I would be curious to see how the curve changes.
The reason I want to know the base circle which I can figure from the lift is how much the buckets are coming up out of the bore. To much and they will wear and bind and stick. Ramp profiles are just as important for wear and sideways force on a overhead bucket setup like these.
There is no reason to copy something that is priced appropriately and there is essentially no market to compete against in so why bother. Doing individual pieces is not cost efficient for the buyer to do so it really would just be businesses. And like I said if someone has something that is worth copying and the margin is there then you just buy a set and profile them and copy them. Super easy.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-04-2015
(12-02-2015, 10:51 AM)raysorenson(11-30-2015, 06:13 PM)Tito Why would sonic waves not make it to the turbine? I highly believe in equal length runners. not so much on a twin scroll though. However, I did a log-style manifold once and it spooled up like hell...
Not using the twin scroll has the possibility that your pulse is going back into another cilinder.
Reducing volume is a real benefit at the intake. I think the biggest problem in turbo-spooling is the rotating mass in the turbo. Thats why twin turbo.
(12-01-2015, 02:46 PM)offroaddieselhu(12-01-2015, 12:38 PM)raysorenson Base circle is changed. He made shims to go under the lifters.
OMG
offroaddieselhu
OMG what? Regrinds are bad?
I thuoght that the basic circle would change. I wrote the OMG because I expetctive something not so obvious.
Offroddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-04-2015
(12-04-2015, 02:44 AM)F.R.A.S The Stg2 cams have 10.5mm lift. The Stg1 cams I don't remember from the top of my head but installing Stg2 cams today so have the info on my desk.
And off course the cams is a bit of a secret. If you can measure them fine, do so. But it's not any fun when people copy the work. I think we are a pretty transparent company really and tell more then we hide. I actually even think the specs of both cams are on this forum already.
THX
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-04-2015
(12-04-2015, 10:28 AM)whipplem104 So is that 10.5mm on both inlet and exhaust?
What kind of power gains are you seeing with them? Do you have any dyno numbers on a before and after? All things equal except the cams?
I would be curious to see how the curve changes.
The reason I want to know the base circle which I can figure from the lift is how much the buckets are coming up out of the bore. To much and they will wear and bind and stick. Ramp profiles are just as important for wear and sideways force on a overhead bucket setup like these.
There is no reason to copy something that is priced appropriately and there is essentially no market to compete against in so why bother. Doing individual pieces is not cost efficient for the buyer to do so it really would just be businesses. And like I said if someone has something that is worth copying and the margin is there then you just buy a set and profile them and copy them. Super easy.
I just interested in the cams, because I would build a greater performance / power engine, and I would like to know if I can buy fitting camshaft for this project on market.
Ofroadieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - whipplem104 - 12-04-2015
Me too. But how a camshaft is made can make a big difference in how it performs. A bigger lift with a smaller base circle and a short ramp can flow less than a stock cam. If the opening time is shorter and the lift under the curve is less. Besides the mechanical issues. What you really want in a valve is to open all the way and stay there for full duration and close like a square wave pattern. But you cannot do that with camshafts. So the ramp is really important.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - hooblah - 12-04-2015
By making the base circle smaller I thought the lift increases but the duration stays the same?
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - whipplem104 - 12-04-2015
It depends on how it is ground how much it effects the opening and closing points etc. That is why you need to see the data compared to a stock camshaft. One of the problems with grinding the base circle is that you have to have a ramp on the cam. And this will shorten the opening and closing points and duration throughout the profile and you do not increase the opening time at or near the tip. Or even shorten that. If you flatten out the cam into more of a rectangle then it increases load dramatically and also fall off after tip. Or you loose contact with your bucket.
Stiffer valve springs will help with the fall off but will increase the load issue on the open side. This is why a roller setup allows much quicker ramps on the open side because it reduces the side load.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - F.R.A.S - 12-05-2015
We don't have any dyno numbers on the exact same engine and setup with only the cams as a change. For one these Stg2 cams requires modified pistons to clear. These are made to work up in the rev range and the only engine that will really benefit from it and show the performance is the Bonneville World Record engine we are building. That one has to push hard to 8000rpm and that power gains will be incredible up there if we have the numbers correct.
The Stg1 cams are a drop in solution though.
And yea these have around 10.5mm lift on both sides.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-05-2015
(12-05-2015, 12:55 PM)F.R.A.S We don't have any dyno numbers on the exact same engine and setup with only the cams as a change. For one these Stg2 cams requires modified pistons to clear. These are made to work up in the rev range and the only engine that will really benefit from it and show the performance is the Bonneville World Record engine we are building. That one has to push hard to 8000rpm and that power gains will be incredible up there if we have the numbers correct.
The Stg1 cams are a drop in solution though.
And yea these have around 10.5mm lift on both sides.
How much shuold I modify the piston for stg2?
I would have on 7000 rpm performance
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - F.R.A.S - 12-07-2015
We machine the piston valve relief 1.5mm for these cams and then send them of for a re-coating job.
(12-05-2015, 03:25 PM)offroaddieselhu How much shuold I modify the piston for stg2?
I would have on 7000 rpm performance
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-08-2015
(12-07-2015, 04:17 AM)F.R.A.S We machine the piston valve relief 1.5mm for these cams and then send them of for a re-coating job.
(12-05-2015, 03:25 PM)offroaddieselhu How much shuold I modify the piston for stg2?
I would have on 7000 rpm performance
offroaddieselhu
THX
offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - Anjay1 - 12-09-2015
After cutting in relieves for valves you need to make sure that is no sharp edges left - all have to be radiused. If left not dressed will cause pistons to melt!
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 12-09-2015
(12-09-2015, 01:59 AM)Anjay1 After cutting in relieves for valves you need to make sure that is no sharp edges left - all have to be radiused. If left not dressed will cause pistons to melt!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=362995070543742&l=4316f6c4bd
Do you mean so?
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - Anjay1 - 12-09-2015
Yes, exactly. At the ends of cut must not be sharp like a point and all ridges smoothen without sharp edges. After machining you need round up all edges. When in excess fueling condition exceed ability of piston and combustion chamber to dissipate heat, aluminum starts to melt at sharp edges first.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - tgg416 - 12-12-2015
Kmcams.com in Norway can grind your 606 camshaft and also supply stronger valvesprings.
He also sells 605 race cams.
www.kmcams.com
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - Alastair E - 12-16-2015
From what I remember--The Finns dont regrind the cams at all.
All they do is use the Inlet cam from a n/a and the original Turbo exhaust cam
They seem to do quite well with 'em!
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - offroaddieselhu - 01-08-2016
Thaks the many reply. I expected more possibility.
Offroaddieselhu
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - m1tch - 01-12-2016
(12-16-2015, 02:55 PM)Alastair E From what I remember--The Finns dont regrind the cams at all.
All they do is use the Inlet cam from a n/a and the original Turbo exhaust cam
They seem to do quite well with 'em!
I guess thats much like a mod done on the BP engine by using a higher lift stock cam as they usually just bolt in - was wondering if there were any OEM cams which had a higher lift as standard.
RE: OM606 competition camshaft options - TurboTim - 08-01-2016
If you go here and search F14329
http://www.crower.com/searchresults/
You can find my cam specs. I think I paid 180 a cam or something. I did have to use shims below the buckets on the intake since the lash changed so much.