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+--- Thread: He221w vs He200vg question (/showthread.php?tid=7194)
He221w vs He200vg question - R-3350 - 05-05-2016
Hello i have been working on a build for my 85 300D om617.952 for a while. i was wondering as to the differences between the Holset He200vg vs the 221w. i know the 200vg is a vnt i am not sure if its electronic or pneumatic control (or can it be made to be pneumatic easily?). is the 200vg the same size as the 221w or is it closer to the 211w? what is the limit of the vane ring as far as effective housing size? (for example 2-11cm) theres not a lot of information available on it so anyone that knows chip in. thanks.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-08-2016
Getting a 200vg is a bit tough. Or used to be. They are about 1300 usd.
Steed Dolan makes a controller that will work.
If your plan is to perform well on stock fuel you may want a tdo4 19l. I'm guessing the 200mg will be small for the top end on 62cc max fueling from a tuned mw pump.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-08-2016
Getting a 200vg is a bit tough. Or used to be. They are about 1300 usd.
Steed Dolan makes a controller that will work.
If your plan is to perform well on stock fuel you may want a tdo4 19l. I'm guessing the 200vg will be small for the top end on 62cc max fueling from a tuned mw pump.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - R-3350 - 05-09-2016
Thanks for the info. i built a vnt controller that works off of a differential pressure system to control either a pressure or vacuum driven vnt.it works basically like a Lycoming VAPC system if anyones familiar with aircraft turbo charging systems. the main difference is i adapted it to use Delta P instead of absolute pressure also working on integrating a EGT reference orifice to limit excessive drive pressure over time. i was wondering who would know about getting a He200VG? and also how is the vane controller mounted / actuates the vanes?
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-09-2016
Sounds cool, but I'm guessing steeds controller works better.He has been selling them for awhile now.
He can source the turbo for u. Cummins is the only place for now.
Good luck with it.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - R-3350 - 05-09-2016
i don't doubt a electronic controller can be better but i enjoy designing my own things also trying to limit the electrical systems on the car as a personal challenge. that being said my last prototype was 0-18 psi linearly with throttle position and adjusted for EGT limits drive pressure and boost/altitude. also included a exhaust brake function and a cruse boost reduction system. i have to give credit for some ideas to synchroG and Forced.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - JVance - 05-09-2016
When you see the price of the Steeds controller, you'll be more than happy to stick with what you've got. I'm sure it's a great set-up if plug-and-play is the extent of your abilities; but, it sounds like you're more than capable of DIY.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-09-2016
When you see the price of an he200vg, you will be happy to stick with a tdo4 and no controller :-P
If he is not put off by the turbo price, the controller should not present an issue.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - R-3350 - 05-09-2016
still trying to find out the size of the 200VG. i know its supposed to be similar to the other he200 series. i have heard the 200WG is effectively a renamed 211w which is far too small for my needs. if it were a 221w with a vgt housing and mabe a slightly more efficient compressor it would be perfect. however everything i have found was just a slight mention that it exists no data. i know Holset is notorious for not giving out maps. i just need to see if its even usable
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - JVance - 05-09-2016
The HE200WG shares the same compressor and turbine wheels as the VG version. Alcaid mentioned the 200 is sized in between the 211 and 221, here:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?56618-Turbo-recommendations-high-alttitude&p=566770&viewfull=1#post566770
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-11-2016
Whatever floats your boat. If designing and building the thing is what motivates you, then have at it and post back with progress!
Seems a waste to buy a new turbo and throw away the controller, but it does sound like a cool project.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - JVance - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 01:09 AM)atypicalguy Seems a waste to buy a new turbo and throw away the controller, but it does sound like a cool project.
It seems like you're equating R-3350's use of his own controller over the Steeds controller as "throwing away the controller"?
How much experience do you have controlling/tuning VGT/VNT turbos?
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-11-2016
Yes I meant to say actuator. It sounds like he plans to actuate the variable nozzle mechanically, using vacuum/pressure, which would involve removing the existing actuator from the turbo, unless his system somehow communicates with t h e existing actuator via CAN protocol.
I looked hard at the 200vg for awhile for my 617 motor, and finally decided to design a compound system for a 606 instead, mainly because the 200vg wasn't available at the time. It would be cool to see someone do a proper vgt on a 617.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - JVance - 05-11-2016
(05-11-2016, 08:12 AM)atypicalguy Yes I meant to say actuator. It sounds like he plans to actuate the variable nozzle mechanically, using vacuum/pressure, which would involve removing the existing actuator from the turbo, unless his system somehow communicates with t h e existing actuator via CAN protocol.
Gotchya; I didn't catch that in the first post.
Several folks have tackled the Holset CANBUS and succeeded: https://mopar1973man.com/cummins/articles.html/general-cummins/84_engine/89_air-exhaust/holset-he351-ve-vgt-standalone-turbo-arduino-controller-tuner-r159/
I don't know whether or not the he200vg uses the same protocol as other Holset turbos, but it would probably take somebody willing to pay the high cost of admission to obtain the turbo and play with it.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - R-3350 - 05-11-2016
it looks like for now ill be considering a GTA2359VK off of a OM648. maybe in the future ill go to a compound setup. probably something like a HE200WG or a he211w and a HX35 well see.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-11-2016
Steed is running 351vgt under a supercharger.
Blacksmoke are running he221 and hx50 sequential on a 648 (I think) with a mechanical flap diverter to open the exhaust path to the big turbo. It might be computer controlled, but it has a wastegate actuator.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - R-3350 - 05-23-2016
heres a question to anyone that knows. whats the deal with the dual compressor turbos off of the ford 6.7. i have seen a few on ebay and the idea of it sounds interesting a waste gated vnt with dual exhaust scrolls and compressors with a single outlet. probably a nightmare to control but still interesting.
RE: He221w vs He200vg question - atypicalguy - 05-23-2016
Who manufactures it? Garrett? I have seen some in books like that but I don't kow the model numbers.
I always though the r2s units would be a convenient setup, but apparently they have control issues even in their stock applications.
Even with all the pickup hot rodders, there don't seem to be many aftermarket controllers available. So I'm guessing you would be oyo unless Steed's new garrett interface works with that turbo.