+- STD (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std)
+-- Forum: Tuning (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Engine (https://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? (/showthread.php?tid=7306)
OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - valicaddy - 07-12-2016
Hello,
I have a running 3.5L OM603 (rod bender) in a W140 and I was thinking about mounting it in a W124 chassis. Extra torque already available might be nice but why not go a little furthrer?
Will 6mm elements from an OM606 turbo make any difference mounted in OEM 3,5L pump? I will not race this car, torque is what I want (OM601 on it, never again).
Will it be imperative to add a bigger turbo also?
Enquiring minds didn't find the answer via "search" function...
Regards,
Vali
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 07-13-2016
Buna Vali,
Can u write down the Pump number in that 603? the number that starts with PES6MXXXXXX
regards
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - awsrock - 07-13-2016
Sure, why not go 6mm? As long as you think you have a good engine. You'll probably want to upgrade turbo, although with a big intercooler it may not be needed. Someone long ago found the limit of the stock turbo was about 20-22 psi running 79cc pump, and that was without IC.
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - valicaddy - 07-13-2016
Buna,
I have used this W140 for about 2-3000km and I have no reasons to think the rod bender went south. I'm not sure about intercooler, I believe I can live without it - if I use common sense on the throtle. But I would upgrade turbo, not hot rod style.
Pump#: PES 6M 55C 320 RS181
I know the cam in this pump is built for more torque and lower engine max revvs (due to the modified internal of a 3.5L) so I believe I can use it.
Correct me if I'm wrong please!
Regards from Romania
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 07-13-2016
Merci,
PES6M55C320RS181, is the same pump with same parts as a PES6M55C320RS158-1 , except the governor properties and the helix design in the plunguer.
In my opinion that pump is a way too short to bend rods in a 580cc X 6 cynder engine... or any other....
U should find a M EDC with RS205 and have the elements swapped. or install wider elements in it....
Pm me if u want more details on the matter.
regards
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - valicaddy - 07-15-2016
I can get an injection pump from an early N/A OM603 in very good running order. I will find out the code these days, maybe it's a better option.
I need to learn the differences between them for a better understanding of the matter.
Anybody has some pdf or a link to more tech info and is kind to share?
Regards,
V
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - valicaddy - 07-20-2016
The other pump I can use/modify is PES 6M 55C 320 RS157-1. Is this any better for a 3.5L 603?
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 07-20-2016
A said before that is they share most of the parts , only the governor is diferent. that pump wont perform any better than the other one with the rs181, wich i consider to be the best for tuning purposes.
regards
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - awsrock - 07-20-2016
Just be aware that the person I mentioned earlier only made 187 hp with 79cc and had very high IATs. So, I'd either add an IC or upgrade the turbo. You should have plenty of room in the engine bay!
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - valicaddy - 07-20-2016
I can't find a pdf document about M pumps governors in order to better understand the differences.
My intention is to upgrade turbo instead of using intercooler. I assume 200CP will be more than enough for a daily driver.
RE: OM603.971 with 6mm elements? - barrote - 07-20-2016
As far as my knowledge goes , u wont find any info on that, or at least info that u can understand...
Most of the info posted here by me , or it based on the pumps part numbers(0400 XXX XXX) , compared to a bosch parts cathalog and the microfiche series where one can found all the calibration specs , for all the pumps made by them till curent, or it is based on experience.
Same for other members, i believe, many are more resourceful than i , but in the end we end up in the same place.
The governor is or can be completely modified to produce our goals , weather it is idle speed , or max rpm, or max output and so on, but there´s things that can´t be changed and one of those is the output of the pumps u mentioned, due the fact they have 5.5mm injection plungers they will never pump out more than 75cc, depending on model, u see the model (part number)changes from rs157 to rs181.
A most often cheap way of raising this injection quantity is swapping the injection plunger to a 6 mm one , from the pump rs205 commonly called "E pump" or "M EDC" found in the 606.96X engine series. Nevertheless even with this plunger injection output will be limited by some tweaks inside and very rarely a pump builder is able to extract more than 100cc ou of it. (having the pump functioning as per stock features)
So usually there is the swedish way, u go and buy a swedish/fin made pump, weather dieselmeken or PP, or mynä or something else.
Otherwise your engine will never rock as a real STD...
BTW despite u can it success, re tunning this pump in the engine requires a lot of knowledge.
regards