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+--- Thread: Crankcase vent into turbo (/showthread.php?tid=7357)
Crankcase vent into turbo - Evenglass - 08-14-2016
Just complcompleted the HX30W instinstall with intercooler on my om617. I have elimeliminated the factory air filter along with the oil condenser from the CCV. Question is can I run the hose directly back into the turbo compressor and right back into the combustion chamber. It is my understanding that priprior to 78' EPA this is how it was done.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - TurboTim - 08-14-2016
This is how I have my on my non performance cars. I think for performance it would be ideal to not send crankcase gas through motor but I dont know how much it would hurt.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - raysorenson - 08-14-2016
You don't want to do it on a gas burner because oil has an octane rating of about 30. The only reason not to do it on a diesel is that is something fails and allows too much oil to enter the turbo, the engine can run away. An oil separator device should be used, even if it's just a baffle below the hole in the valve cover.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Evgeniy1987 - 08-14-2016
(08-14-2016, 09:40 AM)raysorenson You don't want to do it on a gas burner because oil has an octane rating of about 30. The only reason not to do it on a diesel is that is something fails and allows too much oil to enter the turbo, the engine can run away. An oil separator device should be used, even if it's just a baffle below the hole in the valve cover.
... a separator device, and a filter, a catch tank or whatever... You do not want to breathe your own fart during running either, I suppose
Every dirty thing that goes in your inlet, will clog it eventualy..
and then you can say "yeaah, but from factory, it is also like that blablabla" ... true :
the factory doesn't want you to have a good car, the factory wants to earn money
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Tito - 08-14-2016
I thought it was more environmentally friendly burning crankcase fumes. Anyway I always use a catch tank on my performance engines.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - NZScott - 08-14-2016
Catch can and vent to atmosphere. Oil will probably pool in your intercooler?
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - bullonezero - 08-14-2016
Consider: Bypassing PCV to exhaust
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4387972
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Hario' - 08-15-2016
(08-14-2016, 08:01 AM)Evenglass Just complcompleted the HX30W instinstall with intercooler on my om617. I have elimeliminated the factory air filter along with the oil condenser from the CCV. Question is can I run the hose directly back into the turbo compressor and right back into the combustion chamber. It is my understanding that priprior to 78' EPA this is how it was done.
Yes but without the oil condenser you will be pushing oil mist into the turbo inlet?
I delete EGR but personally I keep crank case vent recirculating into the air inlet, it's marginal from a performance perspective but stick a filter on the cam cover breather and it will soon be dripping in oil and will cover the whole engine bay with an oil film which isn't nice..
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - starynovy - 08-15-2016
Use some good oil separator from actual engine. Those funny catch tanks have little efficiency with condensing oil mist into liquid oil and returning them into oil sump. Some engines of 90s era had vent directly into turbo inltet, there it has condensed in intercooler and intake was filled with oil. This oil also burned and residued on intake valves.. it is shit. For example oil separator from Audi 3.3TDI V8, pretty good centrifugal thing-one inlet for mist, one outlet into intake and down goes oil into sump.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Evenglass - 08-16-2016
The Mercedes factory separator in the air cleaner housing is of the cyclonic variety. I learned this after taking it apart. What I ended up doing was taking the top cyclonic portion of the factory Mercedes unit and inserted it into the top of a 1qt paint can, it dits perfectly. Then I'm going to run the vent out the back next to the exhaust pipe.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Hario' - 08-18-2016
(08-15-2016, 03:54 PM)starynovy Use some good oil separator from actual engine. Those funny catch tanks have little efficiency with condensing oil mist into liquid oil and returning them into oil sump. Some engines of 90s era had vent directly into turbo inltet, there it has condensed in intercooler and intake was filled with oil. This oil also burned and residued on intake valves.. it is shit. For example oil separator from Audi 3.3TDI V8, pretty good centrifugal thing-one inlet for mist, one outlet into intake and down goes oil into sump.
Tee into turbo oil drain for sump return you think?
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - starynovy - 08-18-2016
Yes, could be.. or drill block and fit banjo or put banjo bolt with fiting instead of drain bolt on your sump (this was actually done on 2.5TDI)
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - [486] - 08-19-2016
dunno if I'd want to return my oil separator's condensate to the crankcase, it's more than half water
Last winter it has frozen solid, causing lots of oil to dump out the turbine ring seal, tons of white smoke until I smashed the ice and let the crankcase pressure out.
I'm just running the CCV hose stuffed into a coke bottle with the top cut off, all the way down to the bottom, then stuff in a bunch of fast food napkins around it so the gas has to percolate up through the napkins. Before I just had the breather open, but it'd coat the wipers in oil mist pretty quickly.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - TurboTim - 08-19-2016
Crank case gases are also like EGR gases and we all know how good EGR is for performance. I dump mine out the back of the car.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - JoeB - 08-21-2016
most effective solution is PCV gasses direct to exhaust via non-return valve. Moroso have been making them for decades. Straightforward. Cheap. Effective. No recirculated shit in your engine. By all means consider an oil separator inline and return to sump, or not. How complex you wish to make it is entirely up to you.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - charlysays - 09-01-2016
(08-15-2016, 06:20 AM)Hario(08-14-2016, 08:01 AM)Evenglass Just complcompleted the HX30W instinstall with intercooler on my om617. I have elimeliminated the factory air filter along with the oil condenser from the CCV. Question is can I run the hose directly back into the turbo compressor and right back into the combustion chamber. It is my understanding that priprior to 78' EPA this is how it was done.
Yes but without the oil condenser you will be pushing oil mist into the turbo inlet?
I delete EGR but personally I keep crank case vent recirculating into the air inlet, it's marginal from a performance perspective but stick a filter on the cam cover breather and it will soon be dripping in oil and will cover the whole engine bay with an oil film which isn't nice..
I was hoping to keep recirculating crankcase vapour but I used normal silicone intercooler pipes rather than the ones lined with that black stuff... apparently oil attacks them.
Have you had any issues like that?
I'm wondering whether it would pass the MOT with a moroso valve fitted sucking the crankcase fumes out via the exhaust.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - bullonezero - 02-05-2017
Here's my approach to it
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Evenglass - 02-05-2017
(02-05-2017, 11:23 AM)bullonezero Here's my approach to itLooks really good. On my current engine the blowby was smokey and a little excessive so I had no choice but to have the engine eat it. I'm building an engine now with very little blowby and valve job, I may try this on it.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - JoeB - 02-05-2017
The Moroso valves are not MOT / DOT / EPA 'compliant' on any 'emissions equipped' vehicle. they were strictly for the pre1974 emissions standards.
If you want to return to inlet - aka a true PCV oil separator (not an EGR oil separator, there is a difference) then you can look into various 'catch-can' solutions.
EGR delete and a PCV oil separator to me are the most logical pairing, for a couple of reasons...
1. egr blanking plate prevents any exhaust gas ccontaminant introduction into the intake.
2. PCV oil separator removes any oil vapour form the intake, preventing it from clogging intercooler, and stops carbon soot buildup. It's been proven to reduce intercooler temps by 10ºC when correctly implemented.
The key is to make sure you use a separator with a proper filter and a large surface area / volume. The small ones are a complete waste of time.
In australia we have a local company that makes them - called Flashlube. They are used extensively in the 4x4 industry because they prevent all the engine damage from oil vapour - i.e. carbon buildup etc. They do sell them internationally. Not sure who your local agent would be though.
Have a read:
http://www.flashlube.com/en/products/catch-can-pro.html
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - Hario' - 02-06-2017
(02-05-2017, 11:23 AM)bullonezero Here's my approach to it
That is a dam neat solution!
Can you say if the Moroso valve is just a regular looking check valve with metal insides?
Can't see any for sale on our island,
Beers! HH
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - AlanMcR - 02-06-2017
I can understand preventing soot from recirculating since it combines with oil vapor to clog up the intake. Oil vapor on its own is rather harmless, and burning it up is the least we can do to clean up our engines.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - bullonezero - 02-06-2017
(02-06-2017, 05:15 PM)Hario(02-05-2017, 11:23 AM)bullonezero Here's my approach to it
That is a dam neat solution!
Can you say if the Moroso valve is just a regular looking check valve with metal insides?
Can't see any for sale on our island,
Beers! HH
The Moroso valve is a simple check valve: http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/52211/10002/-1
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - JoeB - 02-06-2017
http://www.shopmoroso.com/eb/catalog/navigationPath//{14796}::Crankcase%20Evacuation%20System.html?entryId=catalog.productgroup.&expand=true&menuId=main.menu
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - hooblah - 02-07-2017
Just run a pipe down to the ground beneath. Unless it's leaving puddles everywhere I wouldn't worry about oil on the road. This is what they did back in the day.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - zeeman - 02-07-2017
(08-14-2016, 08:01 AM)Evenglass Just complcompleted the HX30W instinstall with intercooler on my om617. I have elimeliminated the factory air filter along with the oil condenser from the CCV. Question is can I run the hose directly back into the turbo compressor and right back into the combustion chamber. It is my understanding that priprior to 78' EPA this is how it was done.
This is what I d did, using the original canister in the factory air cleaner. I just cut the canister out of the air cleaner and made a bracket to hold it to the turbo. Works just like the original.
RE: Crankcase vent into turbo - EmJay - 02-08-2017
(02-07-2017, 03:30 AM)hooblah Just run a pipe down to the ground beneath. Unless it's leaving puddles everywhere I wouldn't worry about oil on the road. This is what they did back in the day.
This is also how my 2001 MACK work truck, and before that my 99 Sterling are setup from the factory.