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+--- Thread: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion (/showthread.php?tid=7593)
1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 01-23-2017
I have a 1995 320e wagon I converted to a 603 3 years ago. I love the car but the 603 is getting old and tired has low compression on 2 cylinders. and no matter how much I mess with the 722.3 transmission it shifts like garbage. I acquired a 1999 e300 with broken spring perches that I am going to use as a donor car. I've done a lot of reading on here and decided to go for it.
My original plan was to use ole's controller for the transmission and the dsl1 for the engine ... but after more reading I see not many projects using the dsl1 controller and just using the 603 mechanical pump. Thoughts ? Input? I really want the car to be fully functional as it is my daily driver.this includes all the gauges and cruise control. There is not s whole lot of information on here about gauges and keeping their functionality (except the speedo) I then got looking at what it would take for a manual conversion and decided it was a bit cost prohibitive
Once the car is fully functional I will work on performance modifications my goal is 250hp but that will be another project. Any tips and advise is appreciated and considered
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - pryantcc - 01-24-2017
Manual conversion saves you having to spend a lot of dollars on a controller for the auto box! I bought clutch/flywheel, etc for about 250Euro, similar money for gearbox.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 09:21 AM)pryantcc Manual conversion saves you having to spend a lot of dollars on a controller for the auto box! I bought clutch/flywheel, etc for about 250Euro, similar money for gearbox.
Unfortunately I live in the US and manual Mercedes cars are non-existent. A manual transmission alone would cost more than ole's control unit.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 01-25-2017
Anyone ?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - pryantcc - 01-28-2017
Well, you've already got an ECU in your donor car and you'll _have_ to get a controller for the transmission given the lack of manual options available to you. If you've plenty of cash and you know how to, or are interested in learning how to re-map the parameters, I'd go for the dsl1 controller because it gives you ultimate control over everything. If you're not into the programming stuff, you could get an ECU from seanyt that has the immobiliser disabled and is socketed so that you can update the mapping by swapping chips. He can also remove the EGR and MAF sensor requirements for you to eliminate some wires from the swap, I think.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 01-29-2017
(01-28-2017, 09:59 AM)pryantcc Well, you've already got an ECU in your donor car and you'll _have_ to get a controller for the transmission given the lack of manual options available to you. If you've plenty of cash and you know how to, or are interested in learning how to re-map the parameters, I'd go for the dsl1 controller because it gives you ultimate control over everything. If you're not into the programming stuff, you could get an ECU from seanyt that has the immobiliser disabled and is socketed so that you can update the mapping by swapping chips. He can also remove the EGR and MAF sensor requirements for you to eliminate some wires from the swap, I think.
Now I've done a little reading on this but there isnt a whole lot of information, would this interface with ole's controller like the dsl1 or would it complicate things more like having to use 2 tps sensors and 2 engine speed sensors ? I am concerned about having two independent systems for reliability sake. I am pretty good with wiring and electronics but not the greatest with fab work
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - erx - 01-29-2017
DSL1 and Ole controllers share sensors via CANbus, all sensors are connected to DSL1. Only one tps and one rpm sensor is needed.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 01-29-2017
(01-29-2017, 05:26 PM)erx DSL1 and Ole controllers share sensors via CANbus, all sensors are connected to DSL1. Only one tps and one rpm sensor is needed.
Yes I was wondering about the stock edc control unit with immo delete and ole's transmission control unit
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - erx - 01-30-2017
(01-29-2017, 11:25 PM)polarisrmk(01-29-2017, 05:26 PM)erx DSL1 and Ole controllers share sensors via CANbus, all sensors are connected to DSL1. Only one tps and one rpm sensor is needed.
Yes I was wondering about the stock edc control unit with immo delete and ole's transmission control unit
Then you can put one ole controller tps wire to stock ecu's tps sensor and ole controller does not need external rpm sensor. So one tps and one rpm sensor again.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 02-17-2017
anyone else have input that has done this swap. I am torn
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - 97e300 - 02-17-2017
You're gonna have to search around the site on how people have resolved the speedo issue. Some people modify the speedo by gutting the electronic speedo from a w126. If not, check out http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=7605. Personally, as I've been doing research on this very swap I'd go for the DSL1 controller and ole's transmission controller or a manual transmission. Ole's controller doesn't talk to the stock ecu AFAIK. If you are gung-ho on using the stock ECU, unplug the TCU and see if the engine starts. You might need to retain the w210 dash? I don't think the ECU likes being run without talking to its friends.
(ps. if you're over it I'd happily take both of those cars off your hands ;D)
Edit: ole has a bit on using the controller with stock ecus
Quote:If you have a W210 that has the 722.6 already installed.
If it is an OM606 with 722.6 Gearbox.
If you change Electric injection pump with OM603 pump, then the engine will run
There can be a problem if the Gearlever plug is removed from gear Lever that the car will not start. but
that can be handlet by leaving the originally plug in and not connect "OF Gear" Gearlever plug.
If it is an gasoline engine i6 or V8
If you change engine controller to aftermarked, do same way as abowe on the diesel.
If you want to use the originally engine controller.
Then try to remove big gearbox plug from gearbox
Start engine, put in D now you are in 2 gear and it will stay there.
Drive and test if engine has full power or in Limp home mode.
If no Limp mode try to remove gear Lever plug and see if engine can start ?
If it does not start put back the gear Lever plug, and just not connect "OF Gear" Gear Lever plug
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - erx - 02-17-2017
If you want to use ecu from W210 that has smartkey then you can see in my video how much stuff you need to get it running. Not an easy task to get this all out from donor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLocDuZrQkQ
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 03-28-2017
does anyone have a good source for egr delete kit in the states?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 04-11-2017
bump anyone have a good source for egr delete?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - 97e300 - 04-11-2017
Have you looked into dieselpumpuk?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 04-11-2017
(04-11-2017, 03:51 PM)97e300 Have you looked into dieselpumpuk?
perfect thank you for your help.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Hario' - 04-12-2017
(04-11-2017, 06:11 PM)polarisrmk(04-11-2017, 03:51 PM)97e300 Have you looked into dieselpumpuk?
perfect thank you for your help.
If you want a cheaper solution just cut the egr parts off the aluminium EGR housing and use it just as a flange, will have to cut it down and ideally have a bead welded on it to retain the boost hose
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 04-14-2017
Seeking an oil cooler and filter housing like this from a 605. Mr_Robs is using this on his project.
http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt294/britishbadass/IMG_0424.jpg
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 04-14-2017
I sent the head out and had it gone through. Lower end looks great. Doner car had brand new 722.6 transmission. I replaced all the major items like the timing chain and engine seals. Almost ready to remove my 603 and begin the swap. The car is my daily driver so I would like to have everything in order before I remove the engine. Any advise is always appreciated.
Other things I am looking for
- 400e electric speedo
- 400e sway bar
-w202 shifter
Other things I am worried about/fitment issues, maybe someone that has done this project can pipe in
- oil pressure gague. there is no oil pressure sensor on the 606
- will my tandem power steering/sls pump fit on the 606? It appears to have the same mounting but have not actually tried it yet.
- A/C compressor.
- Drive shaft from 722.3/4 fitting on 722.6, my wagon does have the larger 210mm rear differential like the w210
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - AlpinaM30B35 - 04-17-2017
1. The oil pressure sender from the 603/104 can be swapped over to the 210.606, there is an allen head plug in the filter housing. Or if you want to keep your current oil cooler setup you can swap the entire filter housing.
2. 603 tandem PS pump will bolt right up
3. The 603 AC bracket will also bolt up to the 606
When you find a 400e electronic speedo order a set of replacement ODO gears also. Speedo swap is easy, try to get the connector housing and you can use the two factory power wires and just add the signal wire
If you have not solved the EGR delete yet, I used a dorman 21mm freeze plug in a w140 603 manifold and its been leak free for a couple years
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 04-17-2017
(04-17-2017, 11:15 AM)AlpinaM30B35 1. The oil pressure sender from the 603/104 can be swapped over to the 210.606, there is an allen head plug in the filter housing. Or if you want to keep your current oil cooler setup you can swap the entire filter housing.
2. 603 tandem PS pump will bolt right up
3. The 603 AC bracket will also bolt up to the 606
When you find a 400e electronic speedo order a set of replacement ODO gears also. Speedo swap is easy, try to get the connector housing and you can use the two factory power wires and just add the signal wire
If you have not solved the EGR delete yet, I used a dorman 21mm freeze plug in a w140 603 manifold and its been leak free for a couple years
This is great information thank you. Anyone have a source for a 605 oil cooler and filter housing like Mr._rob is using in his project?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Hario' - 04-18-2017
(04-14-2017, 04:19 PM)polarisrmk Seeking an oil cooler and filter housing like this from a 605. Mr_Robs is using this on his project.
http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt294/britishbadass/IMG_0424.jpg
That photobucket link isn't loading for me but if it's what I think you mean the oil/water exchanger on by the filter housing then they come fitted to stock UK/Euro spec W202 C250TD (OM605)..
Robs had to get one shipped, probs easier and cheaper to fit an air/oil cooler?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 04-18-2017
Found an water to oil cooler on ebay last night for $90 they are ~$500 from the dealer
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 05-10-2017
Got this installed
http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae2/polarisrmk/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-05/DF53F3B5-FF7F-4B11-9C53-2B5BE51198B3.jpg
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 05-11-2017
Made a mistake when ordering my dsl1 controller, long story short I have 2 now and only need 1 so if anyone needs one I will sell it to u for the retail price so u basically don't have to pay shipping. It has the logging memory
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - supracrazy - 06-08-2017
PMed you about the dsl1
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Mr_Robs - 06-08-2017
Glad you could find an oil cooler! Seems like things are moving along well!
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-02-2017
Engine is in the car now and working in wiring harness for dsl1 controller. Few questions: Ac compressor shut off for overtemp and wot, coolant temp gauge connection," oh shit" fan activation, tach output to Klimt relay the instruments problems? I know this is vague but it's late and hoping someone will know what this means. Plan on contacting Baldur too, thanks in advance
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-02-2017
Also in need of a 722.6 100mm output flange. I believe the part number is A211 272 03 45.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Hario' - 08-03-2017
(08-02-2017, 06:58 PM)polarisrmk Also in need of a 722.6 100mm output flange. I believe the part number is A211 272 03 45.
What size is the output yolk on the W210 722.6? Smaller?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-03-2017
(08-03-2017, 12:18 PM)Hario\The output flange on the 210 is 110mm. My w124 is a 100mm. Cost for a 100mm 722.6 flange is $100 from Mercedes hoping to find a used one.(08-02-2017, 06:58 PM)polarisrmk Also in need of a 722.6 100mm output flange. I believe the part number is A211 272 03 45.
What size is the output yolk on the W210 722.6? Smaller?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-05-2017
Wtb: 1-electric speedo that will fit my 124 cluster
2-606 n/a intake manifold and cross over pipe
3-202/129 722.6 shifter
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-05-2017
what is everyone doing for lower radiator hose. The 606 thermostat housing is larger diameter than the 603 so that 603 radiator hose with the expansion tank hose molded to it will not fit. The 210 rad has a fitting on it for the expansion tank hose. I haven't seen anyone with 210 radiator in a w124 how are you all solving the expansion tank hose issue?
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Mr_Robs - 08-10-2017
Are you able to fit your original 2 piece drive shaft from the 722.4 onto the 722.6 using the 100mm output flange? I havent gotten my gearbox in yet but that would help a lot knowing what to buy in advance. Need to buy a 400e cluster too. I do have the small 185mm diff though.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-11-2017
(08-10-2017, 10:58 PM)Mr_Robs Are you able to fit your original 2 piece drive shaft from the 722.4 onto the 722.6 using the 100mm output flange? I havent gotten my gearbox in yet but that would help a lot knowing what to buy in advance. Need to buy a 400e cluster too. I do have the small 185mm diff though.Yes the drive line was perfect. The 722.6 is like 3/8" longer than the 722.3/4 which only makes getting the flex disk in and out a bit more interesting. I was able to buy a 100mm three bolt flange for the 722.6 (A211 272 03 45) that fits my old 124 flex disc, the w210 flex disc is 110mm. There is also a 90mm flange but I believe you have the 100mm.
I found an NA manifold which should simplify things I am using 1 air/water intercooler from a r230 sl65 that will mount above the turbo and then go directly into the crossover pipe. should reduce intake length for less lag. Hopefully this works I am kinda winging it. Got my wire harness nearly finished there are a TON of wires but I think I have everything to the dsl1 control unit now. Got the harness to the edc pump connected to the dsl1 controller today.
Still looking for a shifter and speedo.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Mr_Robs - 08-13-2017
Awesome, thats super good news. I was a bit paranoid the 722.6 would be a lot longer.
I dont have my original flex disc so ill buy one of those and the 100mm 3 bolt flange. (thanks for the p/n)
I ended up buying a W202 shifter off ebay for $60 and the guy threw in a nice shift knob for it too. Havent figured out my speedo yet either.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Hario' - 08-14-2017
(08-13-2017, 10:21 PM)Mr_Robs Awesome, thats super good news. I was a bit paranoid the 722.6 would be a lot longer.
I dont have my original flex disc so ill buy one of those and the 100mm 3 bolt flange. (thanks for the p/n)
I ended up buying a W202 shifter off ebay for $60 and the guy threw in a nice shift knob for it too. Havent figured out my speedo yet either.
My w202/om605 flex disc is slightly smaller than my w210/606 one, maybe the 202 one is 100mm?
Anyway I'll have it going spare in a few weeks if either of you want it for beer money
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Mr_Robs - 08-14-2017
I bought a 100mm 3 bolt 722.6 yolk on ebay for $30 last night. Hopefully everything lines up as planned haha. If the shipping wasnt so rough id take it. I can get replacement new W124 flex discs for about $40 each with my wholesale access which isnt so bad.
Might end up buying a whole 400e cluster for $90 to get that speedo.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-15-2017
(08-14-2017, 10:46 PM)Mr_Robs I bought a 100mm 3 bolt 722.6 yolk on ebay for $30 last night. Hopefully everything lines up as planned haha. If the shipping wasnt so rough id take it. I can get replacement new W124 flex discs for about $40 each with my wholesale access which isnt so bad.
Might end up buying a whole 400e cluster for $90 to get that speedo.
Nice I looked for one but there weren't any available when I checked on ebay. I found a w202 shifter for $80 on ebay last night that I snagged. still hoping to find a 400e in my wrecking yard for the sway bar and speedo. Any good resources for cac tubing? I am going to need to get a little creative from my turbo to my intercooler.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-17-2017
How is everyone mounting their Ole trans controller. Ive mounted the dsl1 controller under the floor at the passenger front where the alarm module is and there is room down there but there are no mounting provisions on the ole controller.
Second question my dsl1 controller is completely connected now save the egt probe and the coolant temp gauge in the instrument cluster. Anyone have any ideas. I will email bauldur as well.
This thing is almost ready to start I am getting a little nervous honestly haha. I would post pictures but not sure how without photobucket anymore and haven't taken time to read up on it.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-18-2017
Also wondering what people have done with the shifter release cable on the 722.6? the shifter is locked by an electric solenoid it appears which has a cable that goes to the transmission to release the shift lever.
Second is the kick down switch. Is this used with ole controller.
some confusion on the starter lockout. but haven't really looked into it yet.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 08-31-2017
Some issues:
Ole controller harness would not fit through existing holes in trans tunnel. Took transmission plug housing off but ruined a few female contacts. Epc is very vague on contact pins having a hard time locating proper pins. Haven't contacted ole yet but probably should. Was ready to start engine tomorrow but now I'm at least a week out
Na intake is looking more and more like a bad idea. Washer reservoir is in the way, ac hoses are in the way, Coolant hose from heater core to head in the way. Going to see what I can do with my original turbo manifold.
Temp gauge in cluster not sure where to connect this to my dsl1 controller will have to contact bauldur
Not sure in what to do with my LCD screen and joystick for ole controller, any ideas ? Pics?
The good: shifter in and connected, ac compressor in, trans cooler lines in. Getting so very close
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Mr_Robs - 09-10-2017
Found out my stock driveshaft doesnt fit with the 100mm output shaft flange/guibo. I think because my sedan has the small 180mm diff my driveshaft fits the 90mm variant. Going to order a W210 front drive shaft and see what i can do.
I had planned to put my ole controller in the same spot because i had my floor up to unplug the airbag module (removed dash airbag). I'll most likely use some sheet metal, make a couple of 90' bends and sandwich it to the floor. But i dont also have to cram in the DSL1 as well.
LCD screen im planning to put in one of the vents. Or delete the cig lighter piece and put both there.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 09-13-2017
(09-10-2017, 02:27 AM)Mr_Robs Found out my stock driveshaft doesnt fit with the 100mm output shaft flange/guibo. I think because my sedan has the small 180mm diff my driveshaft fits the 90mm variant. Going to order a W210 front drive shaft and see what i can do.
I had planned to put my ole controller in the same spot because i had my floor up to unplug the airbag module (removed dash airbag). I'll most likely use some sheet metal, make a couple of 90' bends and sandwich it to the floor. But i dont also have to cram in the DSL1 as well.
LCD screen im planning to put in one of the vents. Or delete the cig lighter piece and put both there.
That might be why. 90mm should do the trick hopefully.
There is plenty of room under the metal plate that covers the alarm module. I put both control units under there and the plate fits back over them.
Got my car started today and drove it about 10 feet. Ole controller screen showed an error message "shut down under speed" not sure what that is about I haven't checked into it yet.
My idle is very erratic going to need to do some fine tuning but have no exhaust and need an egr block off plate which is apparently impossible to find. What are you all doing for coolant temp sensor for instrument cluster? I have my extra port in the head taken by the oh shit fan switch.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 09-27-2017
Feeling frustrated with my project can't decide on what to do about my intercooler. I've had a lot of coolant leaks and I believe my brand new rear main seal is leaking. It's been a rough couple of weeks and trying to get this thing on the road sooner than later
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - maxypriest - 10-02-2017
Keep your head up fella! Sometimes it feels like pushing water uphill with your hands ....
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 10-19-2017
I ran into some extra money and I’ve decided to upgrade the turbo. Initially I was just going to use the stoke turbo for a few months to work out all the kinks but after a lot of research I’m thinking a larger turbo is smarter. I’m looking for no more than 300hp and would like to keep lag to a minimum. Seems like everyone is using hx40, hy35 or hx35. Is it necessary to go that large? I know those are the easiest turbos to find but are there better options for less than 300hp. Right now I am running a stock edc pump with dsl1 controller and ofgear trans controller. Eventually I would like to send the pump out to be upgraded but going to stick with the stock one for the time being. Am I crazy, I’m just thinking a larger turbo would give me Lower egts and better on the engine itself even if I’m not using the turbo to it’s full potential. Is it worth upgrading to a tubular header or just use a flange adapter with the factory manifold.
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - polarisrmk - 10-26-2017
Anyone? This place is like a ghost town now
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - Turbo - 10-27-2017
Just think HX35/HX40 is big for 300Hp but I am not an expert on them, but 2 GTB2056vl should do work, but it is VNT
RE: 1995 124 wagon 606 conversion - atypicalguy - 09-16-2019
(10-26-2017, 04:43 PM)polarisrmk Anyone? This place is like a ghost town now
Sorry I missed this. We were redoing our house.
Basically, you need to figure out how much power you want to make, which is 300hp. From that, you figure out how much fuel you need, using the BSFC, at what rpm (BSFC varies with rpm). Then, you figure out how much air you need to burn that amount of fuel, as a ratio of masses (grams of air per gram of fuel). Usually this is like 18:1 for safe EGT. Then you figure out how much you need to compress the atmosphere to get that mass of air into the volume of your engine every combustion cycle, or per minute. Then you find a turbo that can run that pressure ratio at that air mass efficiently, using the turbo map. Using the biggest intercooler you can find generally helps quite a lot. You actually need to correct the pressure ratio for the efficiency of the turbo and the intercooler, so you typically need more pressure ratio than you think you need to actually get the required air into the motor.
I have a hard time believing an hx35 would not move enough air. You would probably want a tight exhaust housing to get it to spool well around town though.