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+--- Thread: Superpump fuel filter (/showthread.php?tid=7777)
Superpump fuel filter - mike89011 - 06-11-2017
This thread is to solicit input and discuss the fuel filter needs and systems used for our superturbodiesel builds, in response to the scarcity of information about same!
It also is an open questioning of the "if it works, don't mess with it" modus operandi, as when using a stock filtering system on a superpump with very different requirements, and very different fuel pump parameters!
And lastly, it is to provide information on the fuel filter specs from different filter companies that I've obtained in determining my own filter components.
NOTE though that I am not claiming to have the answers on this topic, and am NOT saying that the way others are doing this is WRONG, and going to cause some sort of calamity with your engine. Just that there is more to it than saying all is good because the engine is getting enough fuel to blow black smoke!
So for an OM606 with OM603 superpump, depending on elements, etc, we are looking at flowing up to 240 liters per hour of fuel, and a pump such as the Bosch 044 pumping at 72.5 psi (5 bar). And yet it appears very common for people to be using the OM603 fuel filter and lines, which can't possibly have been designed for these specs! (Although I don't know if anyone has access to any engineering specs that DO give us official numbers on the pressure, flow, etc, this filter can handle?)
What exactly is happening when this fuel filter is used, however, I HAVE NO IDEA, and I'm guessing no one else does either! Are there reports of the filter blowing up from excess pressure? Not that I've heard, but has anybody done a dissection of an OM603 filter after it having been run on a superturbodiesel, to see if the filter is damaged internally from the high pressures? Or done any testing to see if the filter stops filtering to its initial specs after being subjected to these high pressures, or starts releasing minute pieces of filter into the line, or etc? Or determined what the pressure drop is from before the filter to after the filter, with a filter not designed to flow the 3 bar desired at the IP on full boost? Or determined if there is excessive obstruction at the filter that could cause premature fuel pump failure?
The reason of course that observing that the engine seems to run fine with the OM603 filter, and stating this to be evidence the filter is working appropriately, neglects that effects on power output and optimal running of the engine can be difficult to guage without some sort of comparison, and that long term effects and wear on the injection pump and injectors from inadequate filtering takes a long time to show!
I will say however without any hesitation that I am not a filter engineer, and have done NO testing myself with different fuel filters or on other aspects of the superturbodiesel fuel system, so would be interested in anyone's input who has information on this, as I'm sure others would also.
RE: Superpump fuel filter - mike89011 - 06-11-2017
I do realize that many people likely have a few OM603 fuel filter heads lying around with the OM603 fuel lines, such that swapping them into your superturbodiesel is very easy. In my case however, along with being unclear on the appropriateness of the OM603 fuel filter, I also don't have any OM603s lying around to scavenge from, so it was just as easy for me to go with a custom designed system with published specs to support it.
So here is what I found after contacting the major fuel filter companies by email, and querying that I wanted a fuel filter that used standard 1-14" threads, such as would be compatible with this filter head available with primer pump on ebay for around $20.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diesel-Fuel-Filter-Mounting-Base-Hand-Priming-Pump-3-8-NPT-1-14-Spin-On-Mount/152130375306?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Dca37fb2731134f268ef292f65aa0780b%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D39%26sd%3D231839363339
Using a very standard threading for the U.S., I could always then also be confident about finding something that would fit in a pinch.
I stated to the filter companies that I wanted a filter that was rated for at least 80 psi, that could flow at least 60 gph (~240 lph), that filtered to at least 10 microns, and had a water separator drain at the bottom, preferrably with a clear sight bowl.
A few of the companies were a complete bust. Racor, known for their clear bowl water separators, had nothing that could handle the flow and pressure. Fram gave me no reply. CAT were a bunch of douchbags, and kept referring me to my "local dealer," who obviously knew nothing except how to look up in a book what filter was for what engine. Luber-Finer and Wix did not have a filter with the desired specs that had the standard 1-14" threading.
Here is the winners list:
Donaldson-
Filter P553203 or P553207
Clear water bowl P569758 (unique to Donaldson)
100 psi
90 gph
3 micron
Baldwin-
Filter BF1223-O
Clear water bowl, uses the wix WF10136 bowl or racor bowl (generics avail on ebay)
25 gpm
100 psi
10 micron
Baldwin-
Filter BF1259
No bowl, does have water drain
25-30 gpm
200 psi
9 micron
Fleet Guard-
Filter FS1000, FS1001, FS1003 or FS1009
No bowl, does have water drain
340 L/h (89.828 gph)
1400 kPa (203.05 psi)
10 micron
Jegs
Filter 15178
No bowl, does have water drain
40 gpm
260 psi
7 micron
All as mentioned, use standard 1-14” threading, and seem readily available in the U.S. Along with having interchangability between a variety of filters, I also now have a primer pump on the filter head, and a clear sight bowl for the water separator, for around the same cost as obtaining the stock OM603 filter head and lines without these features. And from the specs provided, I have some sort of reassurance the filter is appropriate for the pressure, flow, etc, of the system.
RE: Superpump fuel filter - barrote - 06-12-2017
Well, nice job and thanks very much.
As of the stock filter in the 605 wich is the same in all 601 to 606 engines (at least in PT) flow 180 to 200 lts hr with 1.5 bar inlet and the stock fittings.
It holds a superpump well enough . It is a restricting factor? Yes in my opinion the fuel filter should be able to flow around 300 lts hr at 500Mb diff pressure for 150cc pumps and above.
The other important matter wich u did not mentioned is the FPR position in the system. That too is arguing matter very often.
So as is the pump position and the rating of the return bleed valve.(return banjo).
Regards
RE: Superpump fuel filter - NZScott - 06-12-2017
72psi?? that's really high
I was looking at the Donaldson P553207 myself
RE: Superpump fuel filter - mike89011 - 06-12-2017
Thanks Barrote for providing those numbers, which I was unable to find anywhere!
But yes, if one is using a Bosch 044 fuel pump that pumps at 5 bar, and your FPR is after the IP (which is supposed to be the way to do it
), this means that using the 603 filter, it is receiving over 3 times the pressure it is nominally rated at.
RE: Superpump fuel filter - barrote - 06-12-2017
2 things and an apart...
The numbers i posted may differ cause it was a measure i made!!! Along many others....
1-FPR after the pump , hummm i dont think so... before filter yes. At least those china made and reactive to boost.
2- Filter systems are rated at diferential pressure!!! Inlet pressure minus outlet. This case the same filter can be used in a 20 bar system but with 1 bar diff press.
But that is what i think, and that is all i have to say.
Good luck with the builds.
RE: Superpump fuel filter - mike89011 - 06-13-2017
Ha ha, I did not know you were on the "FPR before the pump" side!
My understanding is that putting the FPR after the IP would keep more stable pressures in the pump where it matters, as with the original design from Mercedes in putting the restrictor banjo bolt after the IP.
It seems though there are differing opinions on this (!), and which has probably been fought out in other threads-- but out of curiosity, have you tried it both ways on the same engine, and compared performance? What would be even more helpful is looking at pump functioning on an IP outside the vehicle with the FPR both before and after the IP.
On fuel filter pressures, the numbers I have seen for pressure drop across the filter are always very small. The main number cited is usually the "burst pressure," which is the pressure at which the filter element bursts, distorts, or is otherwise damaged, and filtering ability is compromised.
RE: Superpump fuel filter - barrote - 06-14-2017
I shouldn't be posting about this matters, cause many diff need's apply to diff pumps.
For instance in a stock pump for 603 TD the fuel is 42cc ALDA unrestricting. With alda restriction 38cc.
Stock filter and stock lift pump is more than enough. Its necessary though check correct operation of IP main galery bleed valve.(banjo bolt, overflow valve, ckeck valve...whatever u want to call it) is rated for 500Mb.
In a 606 TD EDC governor max output in stock is 60 to 65cc same for a 603 except the bleed valve is 800Mb.
When we change the elements and tune the governor's and use diff setting in the EDC's many strange things may happen, so...
As long as it suits does not matter where FPR is which pump or even wich filter... if u got my point.
About the press across filter, that is important cause is how u measure flow. How much drop across for the 300lts/h.
Burst press, not very important having a high number cause if your system is stock, it should be as described above. If u have a superpump and u need 3bar supply, maybe your superpump is not the best.
My system is exacly as MB stock, except i dont use lift pump and instead i use a electric china crap with FPR and a 1.5 bleed valve. When my 150cc need the juice the FPR is reactive to boost causing pressure in the system to rise to max pump delivers, bleed valve dampens the excess pressure. Like this i can maintain 1.5 bar in main gallery when is needed and when of boost just positive press, for slow driving and idle....
As i said, my system is as good as any other.....
RE: Superpump fuel filter - starynovy - 06-16-2017
Why not to use filters for preformance common-rails? They support 400HP at 4Bar from factory so i suppose there is still margin and thats more than enough for most builds no?
RE: Superpump fuel filter - whipplem104 - 06-16-2017
I think there is a misunderstanding about how flow and pressure are related and not related. You set the fuel pressure to the requirements of the pump. Normally around 1 bar or 14.7psi for these engines. There have been other specs for rising rate but that is besides the point.
Flow at a given pressure then is another thing. So an 044 is capable of running very high pressures at high flow rates but pressure is controlled by the regulator not the pump. A fuel pump could not be able to run high pressure like ones for carb'd engines or it could run high pressure but not a lot of flow like a standard gasoline pump which bosch makes many of.
As far as the filter is concerned I ran extensive testing of the stock filter and stock lines to run the 044 at peak flow at 14.7psi. Little pressure drop across the filter. We had plenty of margin for error. It can out run any of these injection pumps currently. And on that note no one. And I mean no ones is using anywhere near 240 cc of fuel on these engines. So do not worry about it. My best guess is probably around 160-180cc is the most anyone is actually burning. If that. You would have to be making either somewhere around 1000lb/ft of tq or more and or somehow burn fuel in the upper rpm range which is just not happening. We are making around 800-900 lb/ft of tq at the crank. At around 45psi of boost. Or 60psi absolute. I could make some more tq if I thought the engine would not split in half.