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+--- Thread: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? (/showthread.php?tid=7801)
240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-12-2017
A question about a future porject i have in mind. Been looking to make a drift car out of a w123 (would prefer a w115 but thay are rare in the condition im looking for here in sweden) and i want the engine to be a om617A, now i have found two candidates a 240d manual and a 300td automatic both w123. Now my question is what i cheapest?, swap the 240d to a 300td and use the manual, flywheel and shorten the driveshaft or do a manual conversion on the w123 with the 300td in it?
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Simpler=Better - 07-12-2017
the 240D chassis is lighter than the 300TD chassis-I'd pick that one, and maybe swap the wagon differential if it's got a taller set of rear gears.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-12-2017
Both are sedans. Is there still a weight differens? And the 240d was a 220d.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - NZScott - 07-13-2017
A 300TD is a wagon...you mean 300D turbo (sedans weren't sold factory as turbo in Europe btw, so it'd be a swap or something)
So you're basically asking is it easier to swap an engine or to swap a gearbox....you're gonna have to pull both engines and gearboxes out anyway. Use the manual chassis if its the better nick body, saves you swapping pedals and crap, seems you're aware of the driveshaft issue
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-13-2017
Ah right, i didn't know that. Thanks for the clear up NZScott
Im asking what is cheapest, to swap the 240d (om616) with a manual for a om617A or do a manual conversion on the car with om617A automatic?
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Simpler=Better - 07-13-2017
Cheapest would be to swap the already assembled engine, but you're going to miss that 5th cylinder badly.
I'd go all the way and attach the manual box to the 617 (I'm sloooowly doing this myself)
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-13-2017
So it's cheaper to put a om617A in the 240d manual than do a manual conversion on the 300d with the om617A auto.
Thank you
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - NZScott - 07-13-2017
Well you have just about all the bits bar a correct driveshaft so there's no cost difference really, just time and effort (assuming you're doing it all yourself)
Just bear in mind the stock clutch won't hold up for long if at all for drifting and the flywheel on the OM616 can't be modified to take a larger diameter clutch
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-14-2017
I didn't even consider that the flywheel would be to small, figured the clutch wouldn't hold. Do i have to have a custom flywheel made? And what transmission could i use for a reasonable price?
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Simpler=Better - 07-14-2017
The 240D transmission is pretty much the only bolt up manual that's readily available.
If you get the next generation transmission (with the starter on the wrong side) the locating pins still match-the bell can be redrilled & welded using the intermediate plate as a guide. It takes some work but it's doable
We also have drawings in the engine sticky for OM617->Chevrolet, although those transmissions are fat and won't fit under the car easily.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-14-2017
we'll see what i end up doing, if im even using a om617A even. Would be cool since i have never seen one in a drift car, especially in a w115
I thank you for your time and knowledge
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - NZScott - 07-14-2017
Do you have the all aluminium Getrag 4 speed or the older iron case one? The latter I don't know the strength of but must be pretty strong as was used in vans etc, I have a 5 speed version and hope I don't break it with my souped up engine
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-16-2017
it is the aluminium one, but isen't there a 5-speed manual for the om617A?
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - NZScott - 07-17-2017
Well there are ones that will bolt up but good luck finding one is all I can say. I have a different type of 5 speed and it's just as rare, could be one of a handful in my country. Besides, people here quite often say they blew 3rd gear on the Getrag 5 speeds. I don't know if the 4 speed has the same issue...
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Simpler=Better - 07-17-2017
GM transmissions can be adapted to the 617 engine, the drawings are in the sticky. You need:
Adapter plate (see drawing-it's lacking a starter hole but you can figure that location out easily enough)
Small old "SBC (Small Block Chevy V8) bell housing(these are everywhere)
Any Muncie or new process transmission (they're heavy and indestructible) or a NV#### modern transmission
Modern chevy v8 flywheel (the one used on engine with a 1 piece rear main)-this can be redrilled for the 617 crank
Chevy pressure plate/clutch disk/etc.
It takes some machining but those flywheels/tramissions hold 300+HP on the street every day. US pickups beat them around and rarely fail.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-18-2017
Looks like i need to make a shoping list
Found this link after a quick google, http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com/category_s/1833.htm, do you know if they are still in production/purchasable?
Do i need a diffrent driveshaft and rearend?
If it's a tight fit in the w123 then it will be impossible to fit it under a w115, ah well it would've been a shame really to ruin a w115.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-23-2017
Decided to scrap the om617A plans, going to put in a om603 turbo instead. If i can find one.
Could make things a lot easier and get a w124. Really like them
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Simpler=Better - 07-24-2017
You could always stuff the 603 into a w115
. Just cut the floor until it fits.Those old Chevy transmission are fat and short. Great for a Jeep, awful to fit under a car.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - NZScott - 07-25-2017
A nice 6 speed would go onto a 603, like a 716.654 or something, just needs custom flywheel/clutch
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Patrik Persson - 07-25-2017
Simpler=Better, yes i have seen a w115 with a 603. Heard it was a very tight fit, would be nice to try
NZScott, ye it's going to be a lot easier to find parts, since i live in southern sweden i can just take the ferry over to germany and buy the engine, the car even if i don't find one here, contact f-tune for the clutch, flywheel and transmission. Think i'll go with a ZF. Lastly dieselmeken for the pump.
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual? - Freakshow - 02-11-2018
Tl:dr, manual swap the om617a. I swapped my w116 300sd and its like a whole new car. Only problem is now I'm looking for a 2.24 or 2.47 rear end because first is uselessly short.
Swapping the pedal cluster is a pain, but it's not hard. Remove the drivers seat or earmark some funds for the chiropractor.
I was able to use the manual driveshaft and trans crossmember from my 123 donor. Had to shorten and rethread the shift linkage rods because the 617 is longer than the four cyl donor car, but that was about all the "fabrication" required. Everything else bolted up very easily.
Had to jumper a couple pins on the trans pigtail to defeat the neutral safety switch.