(09-23-2018, 09:38 AM)50harleyrider Can anyone tell me the stall speed on these trannys which were oe on the 98-99 w210 E300 TD cars? I have to buy a torque converter for my 97 F150 conversion and am struggling with the proper stall speed I should spec. I'm using the Ford E4OD transmission with Baldur's DSL1 and a tuneable Quick 4 TCU. I made the mistake of buying a Hughes low stall 7.3 diesel tc and it sucks. I don't want to go with lower gearing or shorter tires yet as that would be a fuel mileage killer and look crappy on a 4x4 truck!

My patience is starting to run thin with the whole idea of an automatic in my truck. Slipping the clutch a bit or getting the truck moving with  a 6sp manual with a granny 1st gear sure would be a lot simpler for spool and takeoff not to mention better fuel mileage

(09-30-2018, 12:08 PM)SilveradOM606 I haven’t found out exactly. I removed it and it’s just sitting there in my garage, haven’t taken it to open it. It had been rebuilt a few months before for cheap so I imediately suspected it wasn’t locking since it would happen on freeway only, and also assumed the shop did a crappy job—and sure enough, seems that was the case. I want to have it rebuilt to go back to that stall that worked better. Although first I wanted to use the 1300 a while to see if it doesn’t bust again for some other possible cause. Anyway, my two cents intended was that higher stall works better for the 606 in a truck. I may post on what exactly happened to the TC. Btw, the paint on it bubbled/burned.

(09-30-2018, 07:06 PM)jav1 Zeeman-

I'd love your input on the "diesel" torque converter statement ie.  why the torque converter must be for a diesel?  As a fluid coupling, I'm not sure I understand why a torque converter rated in excess of an engines output (diesel or gas) would be more prone to failure behind a diesel?

(10-04-2018, 07:51 AM)jav1 With respect to Zeeman, I agree that he is generally correct but I disagree on some finer points as follows.  There's a generally accepted concept that diesels produce more torque than gasoline versions of engines within the same vehicles.  Surely if you look at heavy duty trucks on offer from the US big 3, this is clearly the case when comparing Power-stroke, Duramax and Cummins to there gasoline counterparts.

Having said that, torque, as a unit of measure, is the same "force" whether produced via compression ignition, spark ignition or electric power.  So while it can be generally and truthfully said that diesel torque converters are a lot stronger than gas converters, I feel this is a bit off point.  The OM606.XXX in stock form, can hardly be compared to the heavy duty diesels employed here in the states.  It is a (comparatively) higher RPM, lower torque diesel that compares better to our larger gasoline engines than it does to our behemoth truck diesel engines. In fact,  the OM606.962 has a lower torque rating than many gasoline truck V8 engines. 

I do believe that by diesels nature, the compression ignition event may produce higher peak crank acceleration transients than a higher torque gasoline engine, BUT- I question that this will have any impact on torque converter longevity since it is a fluid coupling... and these transients should be absorbed by fluid flow and not transmitted directly such that mechanical failures would be eminent.  Now- this is just my "opinion" as I have no data to prove this view but I am a mechanical engineer, and I'm fairly well versed in fluid dynamics as well as cyclical load testing/failure analysis.

One area of concern is the lock up clutch.  Converter manufacturers do publish the overall torque rating for a converter, BUT they don't publish the lock up clutches ultimate torque rating.  I presume because the lock-up clutch is NOT intended to transmit HIGH torque demand events... it's usually unlocked in those cases to allow the fluid coupling and torque multiplication qualities of the converter to do their job.  Also- lockup torque can be increased by manipulating system pressure to a degree.  I think problems can arise in these diesel conversions because we're building a hybrid system by grafting a diesel engine where a gasoline engine used to be... and the truck/cars PCM may be trying to control the transmission/torque converter using input parameters that are likely different than originally intended.  I feel lock-up clutch/torque converter failures COULD be as much related to: less than optimal control strategies, AND weak/failing internals when too often, they are blamed on the "diesel engine" itself.

Unless you have a custom converter built, I doubt you will find a diesel torque converter with a high stall speed since most USA diesels are larger, low RPM, torque monsters.  And- if you use a low stall diesel torque converter, while I'm sure it won't fail,  I doubt you'll be happy with the performance.  IMHO- I would use a high stall gasoline torque converter that is rated in excess of the torque your engine produces and make sure the control strategy is working properly IE. that lock up occurs only when the transmission slip is less than 5% and engine power demand is below 50%.

That's my .02c.

(10-05-2018, 12:11 PM)SilveradOM606 Very interesting input you all have. I'm fairly naive when it comes to swaps and TCs and their internals, etc. Although some of the good points you guys mention did cross my mind, simply as speculation. For instance, I assumed the 4L60E TC should be strong enough mated to an OM606 with only 6mm elements intended for daily driving; shouldn't that be a fairly reasonable assumption!

So I am using a standalone TCU (Fast EZ-TCU). I'm not sure if this was a good choice for use with the OM606. And I have wondered if the way the TCU is controlling fluid pressure, shift points, etc, is adequate for the 4L60E, TC, etc. But again, I assumed for daily driving there might be no harm if this TCU wasn't exactly the ideal one. I guess time will tell if I destroy the TC I'm currently using. If that happens, then I will start to custom fab a TC with internals for a diesel application.

Something else to add, I had been struggling to get good power, and I thought it might be the small turbo chocking the engine. I got a vnt turbo (GT23V) and power seemed to improve. So I started horsing around reving over 4k rpm which is when the motor came alive nicely, and incidently around that time is when my TC went out. I can almost say I heard/felt exactly when it happened. It continued to run/shift fine with hardly noticeable noise, although it would overheat on the highway.

I really want to go back to 2000 stall...but at the same time I want to use this cheap ($30) 1300 TC a bit more to see if it'll happen again. I will start driving it like I stole it again to see if the TC will blow again.

(10-08-2018, 02:30 PM)SilveradOM606 Zeeman,

Is it possible to ask my TC guy to rebuild my 4L60E TC using diesel internals or will he not be able to find compatible diesel parts for my gas TC?

(10-12-2018, 12:18 PM)SilveradOM606 I PM'd Evenglass, still waiting for his reply.

Something I'd like to get off my chest and maybe get your two cents on. Some background: again, I have a Silverado/OM606/603(6mm)/4L60E set up with GT23V turbo that spool real quick. If I start gentle on the gas pedal and accelerate gradually the motor runs real smooth; not much power but it moves decently, again a bit dull/slow on the low rpm. Then it'll come alive nicely after say 2700 rpm. The problem is that if right at take off or at low rpm I go heavy on the gas pedal, it almost feels like it chockes, I just don't feel any more acceleration increase, in fact, it almost feels like it gets worse, as if it chocked due to hight EGP or something; this would be between idle and 2600 rpm, and 0 to about 10 psi boost; after that it takes off reall nice. I don't see much smoke eventhough I've turned up the torque capsule on the pump a bit, and it doesn't matter how heavy I go on the pedal either. There's enough fueld and boost that should produce increased acceleration.

So I've wondered, is it possible that the more I step on the gas, the more the TCU increases line pressure therefore making the truck feel like I pull a heavier load? I would assume that increased line pressure only goes to compress the trans clutches harder (more work from the engine simply going to the transmission pistons and friction plates). Or should that line pressure increase (if it's even the case) be negligible such that it should not translate into noticeable load/performance drop?

Quote:And as an example for this. I have a gasoline C230 or E320 converter on a 700lbft w/tq om606. It has been stalled up a bit so that would make it looser we had a stock one in it originally. It held just fine as does the current one. 

(11-08-2018, 12:24 PM)firen456 ok, thank u. It's clear to me that stall speed rises with rising engine torque. Been searching for a converter shop in europe which can modify the tq, but wasn't successful so far. In the states it seems the big builders like FTI only do the big converters for hemi engines but not the small ones that fit in the "inline" bell housing. The only company that sells a high stall converter for the small housing is Turbobandit but he takes about 1700€ for it. That's way to much in my mind. Can u tell me a aproximate number your stall speed rised after u swapped the diesel tq for the gasser tq?

Quote:There is nothing special to changing the stall in these converters. I find it hard to believe that there are not shops that do this in Europe. Thats kind of like saying no one in Europe rebuilds Chevy engines but they do all other make and models. You have to send one in and have it done. You cannot buy one off the shelf. So what ever you have in your car now. Find out how it stalls with your power and then have it changed. Like I said it may take a few tries. We went from stock stall at around 1900rpm to 2200-2300 on the foot brake. We are going to redo it to get it to 2700-3000 rpm. But when boost comes on it will go way up. So we dont want to be to loose otherwise we will blow through the converter. We may have to do it again. No one can sell you a converter that works properly on your car if they have not done it before. Almost exaclty the same setup.