A/W Intercooler Temp Gauge
A/W Intercooler Temp Gauge
03-13-2010, 08:28 PM
#1
I plan on using a VDO vision gauge to match my existing gauges.
I am also going to use my boost gauge as an EMP gauge by using a solenoid valve to switch signals, but that is another thread.
This post was last modified: 03-13-2010, 08:30 PM by Rudolf_Diesel.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
03-13-2010, 08:28 PM #1I am thinking about installing a single Temp gauge with two sending units and a toggle switch to read from either sending unit. One sending unit will be on the IC water inlet and the other on the outlet. I am wondering what is the temp range of the water? I have not measured it before and do not want to get a gauge that has to high of a range and not be able to read any changes in the temp.
I plan on using a VDO vision gauge to match my existing gauges.
I am also going to use my boost gauge as an EMP gauge by using a solenoid valve to switch signals, but that is another thread.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
03-14-2010, 07:29 AM
#2
(Bmax+1)*Tmax=ICWTmax (The +1 is there for existing atmospheric pressure)
or for max boost of 2 Bar at 35C ambient:
(2+1)*35=105C or 219F
I think this is correct but someone can correct my math if I goofed up somewhere...
This post was last modified: 03-14-2010, 07:33 AM by E300TSC.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
I think this is a pretty neat idea. I can't answer your question directly but I think you can take your projected boost pressure in Bars at the inlet of the AWIC and divide it by absolute air pressure then multiply it by the maximum projected ambient temp to get the theoretical max water temp.
(Bmax+1)*Tmax=ICWTmax (The +1 is there for existing atmospheric pressure)
or for max boost of 2 Bar at 35C ambient:
(2+1)*35=105C or 219F
I think this is correct but someone can correct my math if I goofed up somewhere...
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
03-14-2010, 07:37 AM
#3
I know it can get that hot because my water boiled when running at 15-18psi for over 30 seconds (50/50 boils at 225*f + 45*f for 0.9bar water pressure).
Typical "widthwise" cores as used by Rudolf_Diesel, Greasy Beast and bgkast heat the water more slowly as air has less time in contact going across the narrow angle of the core. My "lengthwise" core has water progressively heated as it flows from one end to the other with air in contact for much longer.
So you'd be looking for a very wide range gauge, and no typical water temp or ambient air temp gauge will work to read both because of the temperature spread. A digital gauge would be the best shot, but even those are only setup to sense/display a specific range.
There are specific intercooler gauges, but most are made for air.
http://www.westach.com/products/DUAL/2%2.../index.php
This post was last modified: 03-14-2010, 07:50 AM by ForcedInduction.
Attached Files
Image(s)
ForcedInduction
03-14-2010, 07:37 AM
#3
It will be anything from ambient on the inlet to over 250*f on the outlet with extended time at high boost.
I know it can get that hot because my water boiled when running at 15-18psi for over 30 seconds (50/50 boils at 225*f + 45*f for 0.9bar water pressure).
Typical "widthwise" cores as used by Rudolf_Diesel, Greasy Beast and bgkast heat the water more slowly as air has less time in contact going across the narrow angle of the core. My "lengthwise" core has water progressively heated as it flows from one end to the other with air in contact for much longer.
So you'd be looking for a very wide range gauge, and no typical water temp or ambient air temp gauge will work to read both because of the temperature spread. A digital gauge would be the best shot, but even those are only setup to sense/display a specific range.
There are specific intercooler gauges, but most are made for air.
http://www.westach.com/products/DUAL/2%2.../index.php
Attached Files
Image(s)
03-14-2010, 07:55 AM
#4
(03-14-2010, 07:29 AM)E300TSC (Bmax+1)*Tmax=ICWTmax (The +1 is there for existing atmospheric pressure)
or for max boost of 2 Bar at 35C ambient:
(2+1)*35=105C or 219F
I think this is correct but someone can correct my math if I goofed up somewhere...
Don't forget efficiency.
By my math (meaning the http://www.not2fast.com turbo calculator); with 35c ambient, 2bar boost (3.06 pressure ratio) and 65% compressor efficiency, 211c/411f is the compressor outlet temperature.
105c/219f is more likely to be the manifold air temperature after the intercooler.
This post was last modified: 03-14-2010, 07:57 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
03-14-2010, 07:55 AM
#4
(03-14-2010, 07:29 AM)E300TSC (Bmax+1)*Tmax=ICWTmax (The +1 is there for existing atmospheric pressure)
or for max boost of 2 Bar at 35C ambient:
(2+1)*35=105C or 219F
I think this is correct but someone can correct my math if I goofed up somewhere...
Don't forget efficiency.
By my math (meaning the http://www.not2fast.com turbo calculator); with 35c ambient, 2bar boost (3.06 pressure ratio) and 65% compressor efficiency, 211c/411f is the compressor outlet temperature.
105c/219f is more likely to be the manifold air temperature after the intercooler.
03-14-2010, 10:37 AM
#5
There is a digital IAT gauge available for around $60.00 bucks, but I am not a real big digital gauge fan, but I may consider that too to get some readings www.frozenboost.com
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
03-14-2010, 10:37 AM #5So depending on how efficient my heat exchanger for the A/W cooling system is (Saab intercooler, now radiator) and the volume of reserve (.75 gallons in tank - overall system holds 1.5 gallons), flow rate of pump (Mercedes heater pump), cooling media (Petroleum distillate based), and how much boost I run...I can expect to see the inlet temp of the water at or above ambient which can range from 45 deg in winter to 110 deg in summer to 250+ deg on the outlet side of the water jacket, correct. I did not plug the numbers in the formula, just making a guess.
There is a digital IAT gauge available for around $60.00 bucks, but I am not a real big digital gauge fan, but I may consider that too to get some readings www.frozenboost.com
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
03-14-2010, 11:38 AM
#6
I did that to confirm my water gauge was reading too high.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
Instead of guessing, you could find a plumbing/ heating guy who will let you use his infrared thermometer gun. It will take spot readings from wherever you aim it at-- you could easily measure the temp falloff across the IC.
I did that to confirm my water gauge was reading too high.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
03-14-2010, 12:18 PM
#7
(03-14-2010, 11:38 AM)Syncro_G Instead of guessing, you could find a plumbing/ heating guy who will let you use his infrared thermometer gun. It will take spot readings from wherever you aim it at-- you could easily measure the temp falloff across the IC.
I did that to confirm my water gauge was reading too high.
Infra-red guns are only good for comparison. They don't give accurate readings unless you put a lot of work in.
They also can't read intercooler temps while you're driving, which is when it matters.
(03-14-2010, 11:38 AM)Syncro_G Instead of guessing, you could find a plumbing/ heating guy who will let you use his infrared thermometer gun. It will take spot readings from wherever you aim it at-- you could easily measure the temp falloff across the IC.
I did that to confirm my water gauge was reading too high.
Infra-red guns are only good for comparison. They don't give accurate readings unless you put a lot of work in.
They also can't read intercooler temps while you're driving, which is when it matters.
03-14-2010, 12:49 PM
#8
(03-14-2010, 12:18 PM)Kiwibacon(03-14-2010, 11:38 AM)Syncro_G Instead of guessing, you could find a plumbing/ heating guy who will let you use his infrared thermometer gun. It will take spot readings from wherever you aim it at-- you could easily measure the temp falloff across the IC.
I did that to confirm my water gauge was reading too high.
Infra-red guns are only good for comparison. They don't give accurate readings unless you put a lot of work in.
They also can't read intercooler temps while you're driving, which is when it matters.
yeah, good point on driving. I thought they were pretty accurate though.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
(03-14-2010, 12:18 PM)Kiwibacon(03-14-2010, 11:38 AM)Syncro_G Instead of guessing, you could find a plumbing/ heating guy who will let you use his infrared thermometer gun. It will take spot readings from wherever you aim it at-- you could easily measure the temp falloff across the IC.
I did that to confirm my water gauge was reading too high.
Infra-red guns are only good for comparison. They don't give accurate readings unless you put a lot of work in.
They also can't read intercooler temps while you're driving, which is when it matters.
yeah, good point on driving. I thought they were pretty accurate though.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
03-14-2010, 01:00 PM
#9
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
03-14-2010, 01:00 PM #9I have one of those tools I could use, but wanted real time feed back.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
03-14-2010, 05:54 PM
#10
(03-14-2010, 12:49 PM)Syncro_G yeah, good point on driving. I thought they were pretty accurate though.
To get a good reading you need to prepare a matt black surface on everything you want to measure. The shinier the surface the less accurate they are.
But then you've got to remember that even an accurate measurement of the outside of a pipe isn't an accurate measurement of what's going on inside that pipe. The thicker the pipe and the more airflow over the outside the bigger the difference will be.
(03-14-2010, 12:49 PM)Syncro_G yeah, good point on driving. I thought they were pretty accurate though.
To get a good reading you need to prepare a matt black surface on everything you want to measure. The shinier the surface the less accurate they are.
But then you've got to remember that even an accurate measurement of the outside of a pipe isn't an accurate measurement of what's going on inside that pipe. The thicker the pipe and the more airflow over the outside the bigger the difference will be.
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