EGT's
EGT's
I have a W461 290GD with an transplanted engine (OM662) from a Ssang Yong 290S (mechanical diesel pump and garrett turbo).
I have an EGT meter and can easily get up to over 1300F or 705degC.
Not sure of performance as I have nothing to compare with.
My first goal is to get EGT's down. I have clean Airfilter and removed all soot from inlet manifold. It did make a difference but when I hear some guys don't get above 650degC (like my friends TD5) then I get worried.
Once EGT are down I'd like to start tuning the pump/turbo.
PS I don't have an intecooler - no space unless I cut a hole in the hood and fit a lunchbox. Not my thing
Hi Guys, I'm the new kid on the block and it seems in good company.
I have a W461 290GD with an transplanted engine (OM662) from a Ssang Yong 290S (mechanical diesel pump and garrett turbo).
I have an EGT meter and can easily get up to over 1300F or 705degC.
Not sure of performance as I have nothing to compare with.
My first goal is to get EGT's down. I have clean Airfilter and removed all soot from inlet manifold. It did make a difference but when I hear some guys don't get above 650degC (like my friends TD5) then I get worried.
Once EGT are down I'd like to start tuning the pump/turbo.
PS I don't have an intecooler - no space unless I cut a hole in the hood and fit a lunchbox. Not my thing
.On my om602 2.5 turbo I ease on the throttle once the egts get to about 1250-1300f. I am doing over 100 mph at that point.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
![[Image: 3803751914_8fdca63138_o.jpg]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3803751914_8fdca63138_o.jpg)
Is that an IDI or DI engine? So I can settle an old discussion with FI about 2.9 liter ssangyong mercedes engines being IDI .
On my om602 2.5 turbo I ease on the throttle once the egts get to about 1250-1300f. I am doing over 100 mph at that point.
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
I doubt many people here (US) will be familiar with the OM662 motor.
Could you fit the intercooler bumper from an early 463 G-wagen?
such as the G350DT or similar? it has provisions for a long skinny intercooler inside.
some people with om603/606 engines have fitted air/water intercoolers - the interchanger would fit somewhere near the intake manifold while the water radiator would be mounted in the fender well behind a headlamp.
-Cheers, Christian
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
Welcome Jambo, how about posting a picture of your engine bay?
I doubt many people here (US) will be familiar with the OM662 motor.
Could you fit the intercooler bumper from an early 463 G-wagen?
such as the G350DT or similar? it has provisions for a long skinny intercooler inside.
some people with om603/606 engines have fitted air/water intercoolers - the interchanger would fit somewhere near the intake manifold while the water radiator would be mounted in the fender well behind a headlamp.
-Cheers, Christian
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
(03-10-2010, 03:10 PM)Syncro_G I doubt many people here (US) will be familiar with the OM662 motor.
Its just a Korean licensed clone of the 602.
ForcedInduction
03-10-2010, 03:47 PM
#5
(03-10-2010, 03:10 PM)Syncro_G I doubt many people here (US) will be familiar with the OM662 motor.
Its just a Korean licensed clone of the 602.
[/quote]
The OM662 looks identical to the OM602 and parts can be interchanged as I have done ie Powersteering pump Fuel filter....
I have changed the sump of the OM602 as well as the oil pump and bolted it straight onto the OM662.
As far as other internals go I'm unsure. ie Does the OM662 have better Bigend bearings etc as it is the turbocharged version.
I know the 290 NA and 290turbo also look the same but the internals and injectors,prechambers are different. Those are the differences I'm not sure about.
Here a picture of my engine bay, although more than a year old and I have cleaned up a bit.
The change pipe was faricated to fit existing flanges I must still get a 250 inlet manifold and see if I can fit an intercooler before I fix that side of things up. That is of course if it doesn't cause other problems.
@Synchro_G
I probably could fit a 463 bumper but those are as scarce as hens teeth here in SA. I only know of a handful of 463and they are all valued and still on the road. I know there is a guy in Thailand that did that conversion but his charge pipes must be at least 2 m long in total. I don't know what effect that would have. As I've said before I'm not keen to cut holes in the body.
[[Its just a Korean licensed clone of the 602.
[/quote]
The OM662 looks identical to the OM602 and parts can be interchanged as I have done ie Powersteering pump Fuel filter....
I have changed the sump of the OM602 as well as the oil pump and bolted it straight onto the OM662.
As far as other internals go I'm unsure. ie Does the OM662 have better Bigend bearings etc as it is the turbocharged version.
I know the 290 NA and 290turbo also look the same but the internals and injectors,prechambers are different. Those are the differences I'm not sure about.
Here a picture of my engine bay, although more than a year old and I have cleaned up a bit.
The change pipe was faricated to fit existing flanges I must still get a 250 inlet manifold and see if I can fit an intercooler before I fix that side of things up. That is of course if it doesn't cause other problems.
@Synchro_G
I probably could fit a 463 bumper but those are as scarce as hens teeth here in SA. I only know of a handful of 463and they are all valued and still on the road. I know there is a guy in Thailand that did that conversion but his charge pipes must be at least 2 m long in total. I don't know what effect that would have. As I've said before I'm not keen to cut holes in the body.
As to lowering EGT's worth checking the turbo is delivering full boost pressure and think about an Intercooler...
--Lack of boost can make for high EGT's....
Alastair E
03-11-2010, 01:51 PM #8Ssang-yong Musso OM.662 is InDirect injection, 2.9 Litre engine, Not quite the same as the old 602 you'll find in a 190D, Or the 602.972 Direct-Injection engine, you'll find in Sprinters !....
As to lowering EGT's worth checking the turbo is delivering full boost pressure and think about an Intercooler...
--Lack of boost can make for high EGT's....
(03-10-2010, 12:59 PM)Jambo It did make a difference but when I hear some guys don't get above 650degC (like my friends TD5) then I get worried.
Your friend needs to grow a pair. The TD5 can take way more than 650. Some guys with ugly remaps were running over 800C before they bought a pyro and backed off a bit.
The way to get EGT's down is more boost. It's that simple.
(03-10-2010, 12:59 PM)Jambo It did make a difference but when I hear some guys don't get above 650degC (like my friends TD5) then I get worried.
Your friend needs to grow a pair. The TD5 can take way more than 650. Some guys with ugly remaps were running over 800C before they bought a pyro and backed off a bit.
The way to get EGT's down is more boost. It's that simple.
[/quote]
@Alastair & Kiwibacon
The above comment makes me happy as I could probably turn the boost up. Next question is how doe I do that.
When that avenue has been followed I will certainly look at installing an intercooler and clean up the piping.
[The way to get EGT's down is more boost. It's that simple.
[/quote]
@Alastair & Kiwibacon
The above comment makes me happy as I could probably turn the boost up. Next question is how doe I do that.
When that avenue has been followed I will certainly look at installing an intercooler and clean up the piping.
Someone more familiar with your Garret Turbo would be best to advise you....(never owned a Garret)
Alastair E
03-12-2010, 03:35 PM #11Well, You would need to gain access to and alter the Waste-Gate adjustment on the turbo-charger itself....
Someone more familiar with your Garret Turbo would be best to advise you....(never owned a Garret)
(03-14-2010, 11:43 AM)Jambo Thanks Alastair
I have done some googling and found out I have a Garrett TB25 turbo.
Next I will have a look to see if I can get access to the wastgate linkage.
A lot of garretts don't have adjustable wastegate arms. You can cut your one, thread it and install a tube nut or shim the wastegate bracket. Even blocking the wastegate line will work.
(03-14-2010, 11:43 AM)Jambo Thanks Alastair
I have done some googling and found out I have a Garrett TB25 turbo.
Next I will have a look to see if I can get access to the wastgate linkage.
A lot of garretts don't have adjustable wastegate arms. You can cut your one, thread it and install a tube nut or shim the wastegate bracket. Even blocking the wastegate line will work.
A lot of garretts don't have adjustable wastegate arms. You can cut your one, thread it and install a tube nut or shim the wastegate bracket. Even blocking the wastegate line will work.
[/quote]
Thanks Kiwibacon,
From some pictures I saw it seems there is an adjustment but I will confirm.
Blocking the wastegate line also makes sense. If one installs an adjustable valve there it can easily be adjusted afterwards.
[/quote]
A lot of garretts don't have adjustable wastegate arms. You can cut your one, thread it and install a tube nut or shim the wastegate bracket. Even blocking the wastegate line will work.
[/quote]
Thanks Kiwibacon,
From some pictures I saw it seems there is an adjustment but I will confirm.
Blocking the wastegate line also makes sense. If one installs an adjustable valve there it can easily be adjusted afterwards.
[/quote]
OK, mine has no adjustment so I made a device which would block the wastegate line depending on how much I squeeze it. This is just temporary to see if I get any result. Will report back.
A lot of garretts don't have adjustable wastegate arms. You can cut your one, thread it and install a tube nut or shim the wastegate bracket. Even blocking the wastegate line will work.
[/quote]
OK, mine has no adjustment so I made a device which would block the wastegate line depending on how much I squeeze it. This is just temporary to see if I get any result. Will report back.
I had issues on my Powerstroke popping off IC hoses and the EGT's would sky rocket with no boost.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
03-19-2010, 06:06 AM #16I would be inclined to think that a lack of boost is the issue with the EGT's. I have been driving my 300SD around for about two weeks with no intercooler and the EGT's are only slightly higher than before I removed it.
I had issues on my Powerstroke popping off IC hoses and the EGT's would sky rocket with no boost.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
I have however not seen any chage in EGT.
The weekend somepone pointed out to me I should vent the pipe on the little diafrgm on the back of the pump to atmosphere.
Did that and lo and behold the EGT's are a lot better. Normal driving @ .5bar boost and 120km/h around 610 deg C.
Previously I would have to tap off when a hill is insight or the EGT would creep up above 700deg. On a trip of 300km this weekend I got up to 695 at some point but never actually tapped off while driving.
Anybody know if this is indeed a fix or just a temporary fix.
I'm sure this unit was supposed to be connected to vacuum.
OK as I posted before I have squeezed the wastegate line a bit which increased the boost to 0.75.
I have however not seen any chage in EGT.
The weekend somepone pointed out to me I should vent the pipe on the little diafrgm on the back of the pump to atmosphere.
Did that and lo and behold the EGT's are a lot better. Normal driving @ .5bar boost and 120km/h around 610 deg C.
Previously I would have to tap off when a hill is insight or the EGT would creep up above 700deg. On a trip of 300km this weekend I got up to 695 at some point but never actually tapped off while driving.
Anybody know if this is indeed a fix or just a temporary fix.
I'm sure this unit was supposed to be connected to vacuum.
(04-12-2010, 04:02 AM)Jambo The weekend somepone pointed out to me I should vent the pipe on the little diafrgm on the back of the pump to atmosphere.
Did that and lo and behold the EGT's are a lot better. Normal driving @ .5bar boost and 120km/h around 610 deg C.
Previously I would have to tap off when a hill is insight or the EGT would creep up above 700deg. On a trip of 300km this weekend I got up to 695 at some point but never actually tapped off while driving.
Anybody know if this is indeed a fix or just a temporary fix.
I'm sure this unit was supposed to be connected to vacuum.
That's because the pump is not providing enough fuel. That diafragm is called an ALDA. It compensates for changes in altitude. It also regulates fuel in off boost/boost situations.
When you disconnect it, pump will always be set up not to provide additional fuel in case boost builds. Your car is much slower with it disconnected.
Best solution would be to have an intercooler or if you have one, a more efficient one. The Ssangyongs here in Albania (Europe) have a front mounted small intercooler.
Deni
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
(04-12-2010, 04:02 AM)Jambo The weekend somepone pointed out to me I should vent the pipe on the little diafrgm on the back of the pump to atmosphere.
Did that and lo and behold the EGT's are a lot better. Normal driving @ .5bar boost and 120km/h around 610 deg C.
Previously I would have to tap off when a hill is insight or the EGT would creep up above 700deg. On a trip of 300km this weekend I got up to 695 at some point but never actually tapped off while driving.
Anybody know if this is indeed a fix or just a temporary fix.
I'm sure this unit was supposed to be connected to vacuum.
That's because the pump is not providing enough fuel. That diafragm is called an ALDA. It compensates for changes in altitude. It also regulates fuel in off boost/boost situations.
When you disconnect it, pump will always be set up not to provide additional fuel in case boost builds. Your car is much slower with it disconnected.
Best solution would be to have an intercooler or if you have one, a more efficient one. The Ssangyongs here in Albania (Europe) have a front mounted small intercooler.
Deni
1992 Mercedes 190D 2.5 turbo 5sp manual. EGT+boost gauges. Boost controller set to ~14.5 psi. 1 1/4 turns on full load adjustment. LPG injection.
Thanks for the reply but I don't think we are talking about the same unit.
To my limited knowledge the ALDA sits on top of the pump. The one thats now open to atmosphere sits at the back on the upper side. It is in the horizontal position if you know what I mean.
Been looking again in drawings I found and they indicate it should be connected to vacuum through the temp sensor. Its supposed to be the idle adjuster, unless this pump has something else there. I must say this is the best performance I've had. EGT's are now really acceptable.
I will try post a picture.
@ Forced Induction
Yes I believe that would be stock boost. I have nearly closed the pipe completely without more boost showing. Either my turbo is tired and csannot produce more or there is something else still faulty.
Cheers,
Hi Deni,
Thanks for the reply but I don't think we are talking about the same unit.
To my limited knowledge the ALDA sits on top of the pump. The one thats now open to atmosphere sits at the back on the upper side. It is in the horizontal position if you know what I mean.
Been looking again in drawings I found and they indicate it should be connected to vacuum through the temp sensor. Its supposed to be the idle adjuster, unless this pump has something else there. I must say this is the best performance I've had. EGT's are now really acceptable.
I will try post a picture.
@ Forced Induction
Yes I believe that would be stock boost. I have nearly closed the pipe completely without more boost showing. Either my turbo is tired and csannot produce more or there is something else still faulty.
Cheers,
On my last trip I had some very long uphill stretches and had to pull back to keep my EGT's at about 700C.
The turbo wastegate is nearly blocked off and I don't seem to get more than .75 bar boost.
My question now is Am I still lacking air hence need a refurbished turbo or a new one that can produce more boost. I'm not sure that a intercooler will make the difference as at some time the ambient temp was very low and I'm sure this would simulate having an intercooler at high ambient temps.
If a larger turbo would do the trick what would be my easiest options ie bolt on. I don't mind working on the exhaust side but the manifold should be the same. Currently I have a TB25 Garret turbo with a mechanical wastegate (currently basically blocked the pressure line for it).
Any suggestions welcome.
OK the unit that is now vented to atmosphere is the fule enrichment unit when the engine is cold. I had no change after starting but it could be because temperatures are not so cold yet.
On my last trip I had some very long uphill stretches and had to pull back to keep my EGT's at about 700C.
The turbo wastegate is nearly blocked off and I don't seem to get more than .75 bar boost.
My question now is Am I still lacking air hence need a refurbished turbo or a new one that can produce more boost. I'm not sure that a intercooler will make the difference as at some time the ambient temp was very low and I'm sure this would simulate having an intercooler at high ambient temps.
If a larger turbo would do the trick what would be my easiest options ie bolt on. I don't mind working on the exhaust side but the manifold should be the same. Currently I have a TB25 Garret turbo with a mechanical wastegate (currently basically blocked the pressure line for it).
Any suggestions welcome.
i have got same engine in my ssangyong musso. I think the 700°c is still normal at hard load. On normal crouising i have 2-300°c, but intensive acceleration, can do hight EGT. I have intercooler, you should built in a big one. Its safes the engine and reduce the EGT. I changed the turbo for an kkk from om603.But the EGT not reduced significantly.
(04-28-2010, 04:27 AM)Jambo OK the unit that is now vented to atmosphere is the fule enrichment unit when the engine is cold. I had no change after starting but it could be because temperatures are not so cold yet.
On my last trip I had some very long uphill stretches and had to pull back to keep my EGT's at about 700C.
The turbo wastegate is nearly blocked off and I don't seem to get more than .75 bar boost.
My question now is Am I still lacking air hence need a refurbished turbo or a new one that can produce more boost. I'm not sure that a intercooler will make the difference as at some time the ambient temp was very low and I'm sure this would simulate having an intercooler at high ambient temps.
If a larger turbo would do the trick what would be my easiest options ie bolt on. I don't mind working on the exhaust side but the manifold should be the same. Currently I have a TB25 Garret turbo with a mechanical wastegate (currently basically blocked the pressure line for it).
Any suggestions welcome.
Hi,
i have got same engine in my ssangyong musso. I think the 700°c is still normal at hard load. On normal crouising i have 2-300°c, but intensive acceleration, can do hight EGT. I have intercooler, you should built in a big one. Its safes the engine and reduce the EGT. I changed the turbo for an kkk from om603.But the EGT not reduced significantly.
(04-28-2010, 04:27 AM)Jambo OK the unit that is now vented to atmosphere is the fule enrichment unit when the engine is cold. I had no change after starting but it could be because temperatures are not so cold yet.
On my last trip I had some very long uphill stretches and had to pull back to keep my EGT's at about 700C.
The turbo wastegate is nearly blocked off and I don't seem to get more than .75 bar boost.
My question now is Am I still lacking air hence need a refurbished turbo or a new one that can produce more boost. I'm not sure that a intercooler will make the difference as at some time the ambient temp was very low and I'm sure this would simulate having an intercooler at high ambient temps.
If a larger turbo would do the trick what would be my easiest options ie bolt on. I don't mind working on the exhaust side but the manifold should be the same. Currently I have a TB25 Garret turbo with a mechanical wastegate (currently basically blocked the pressure line for it).
Any suggestions welcome.
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