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MB 300SD oldtimer

MB 300SD oldtimer

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JTY
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01-04-2010, 02:58 PM #1
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Bought this beauty early 2005 and has been my daily driver for several years.
[Image: 300sd-2.jpg]

I drove the car as original the first year, in 2006 i decided it was time to do some upgrades and installed intercooler and did some pump modificaton, also the turbo was serviced and go different compressor wheel.

[Image: IMG_3229.JPG]
[Image: IMG_3231.JPG]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/intercooler/IMG_3235.JPG[/img]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/intercooler/img_3242.jpg[/img]
[Image: img_3243.jpg]

After that i installed nice AMG rims and xenon headlights:
[Image: jenkki4.jpg]
[Image: img_3943.jpg]
[Image: kirkas2.jpg]

At the same time i noticed that using several manual gauges was painful and i didn't want to destroy the dash so i installed digital gauge with everything in same unit:
[Image: img_3625.jpg]

2006 winter i drove lot, my daily trip was over 300km so i noticed i need some entertainment to the car. So i started new project: multi core multimedia system
[Image: img_3973.jpg]
[Image: img_3985.jpg]
[Image: img_3986.jpg]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/assa/linux/img_4004.jpg[/img]
[Image: img_4012.jpg]
[Image: img_4037.jpg]

After the long winter i noticed that the intercooler project was i success, my fuel mileage got much better and the engine was cooler, also there was more torque.
So much more that the transmission started to slip jan-feb 2007.
After that i drove lighter and tried to maximize the transmission pressure and that helped for few months. But in April i went to an transmission specialist who serviced my tran. and upgraded it to handled over 500Nm of torque for future upgrades.

New transmission was very good and it shifted like anything before Big Grin
But in autumn 2007 the car failed smog test and i decided it was time to buy another daily driver.
Oldtimer's status got changed from all year around car to summer car and the engine was going to be serviced from bottom to top

will continue
Dec 2007 in my garage:
[Image: jenkki1.jpg]

Lifting the engine off
[Image: jenkki2.jpg]

Nice....Confused
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki8.jpg[/img]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki9.jpg[/img]

Head off, cylinders looked good from distance, but needed service:
[Image: jenkki13.jpg]
[Image: jenkki14.jpg]

The head itself was in good shape:
[Image: jenkki15.jpg]
Removing bottom layer:
[Image: jenkki16.jpg]

Turbo oil pump:
[Image: jenkki17.jpg]

This is why EGR is evil Angry
[Image: jenkki20.jpg]
[Image: jenkki21.jpg]

Bottom end looked good no major problems:
[Image: jenkki-uusi4.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi2.jpg]

Also the crankshaft were okay:
[Image: jenkki-uusi3.jpg]

Pistons also okay, but few of the rings were damaged pretty badly
Here you can see marks from the rings:
[Image: jenkki-uusi6.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi7.jpg]
The head was ultrasound cleaned and mildy ported.
After this it got two layer paint coating:
[Image: jenkki-uusi1.jpg]

Also the block was ultrasound cleaned and got new paint:
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki-uusi8.jpg[/img]
[Image: jenkki-uusi9.jpg]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki-uusi10.jpg[/img]
[Image: jenkki-uusi11.jpg]

New parts from good dealer from US:
[Image: jenkki-uusi22.jpg]

Some new oversize pistons:
[Image: jenkki-uusi12.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi21.jpg]
I also decided to change all gears in the engine.
Then engine and chassis had over 600 000km prior service:
[Image: jenkki-uusi14.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi16.jpg]

Block straight from machining and ready for build up:
[Image: jenkki-uusi15.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi17.jpg]

Difference between red block volvo rods and om617 rods:
[Image: jenkki-uusi20.jpg]

Also decided to renwe all the front suspensions parts, they were pretty worn out:
[Image: p1020304.jpg]
[Image: p1020302.jpg]

Powder coating makes big difference to old parts:
[Image: p1020320.jpg]
Head ready build and installed on the block
[Image: p1020292.jpg]

Injectors with new silencio nozzles:
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/p1020293.jpg[/img]

Engine looks much better:
[Image: p1020312.jpg]

Here it goes back in:
[Image: p1020316.jpg]

It took some while to come to this phase, i had problems to find OM617A parts, especially the pistons were a big headache.
At the mean time i had the chassis fixed from some rust problems in the wheel arches. I removed those annoying chrome thingies from arches and found some nice rust:
[Image: jenkki18.jpg]

Also the injector pump was changed from MW to OM602 M pump, pump was serviced and upgraded by PP-Diesel in Finland.
It has lraged 7mm elements, custom boost controlled "ALDA" and is tuned for high horse powers.

It took whole 2008 to get the engine serviced and back to the car.

So now to the good stuff, bigger turbo Big Grin
Turbo is a master power 322 from Hevosvoima.com
[Image: p1020325.jpg]
This post was last modified: 07-14-2012, 04:44 PM by aaa.
JTY
01-04-2010, 02:58 PM #1

Bought this beauty early 2005 and has been my daily driver for several years.
[Image: 300sd-2.jpg]

I drove the car as original the first year, in 2006 i decided it was time to do some upgrades and installed intercooler and did some pump modificaton, also the turbo was serviced and go different compressor wheel.

[Image: IMG_3229.JPG]
[Image: IMG_3231.JPG]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/intercooler/IMG_3235.JPG[/img]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/intercooler/img_3242.jpg[/img]
[Image: img_3243.jpg]

After that i installed nice AMG rims and xenon headlights:
[Image: jenkki4.jpg]
[Image: img_3943.jpg]
[Image: kirkas2.jpg]

At the same time i noticed that using several manual gauges was painful and i didn't want to destroy the dash so i installed digital gauge with everything in same unit:
[Image: img_3625.jpg]

2006 winter i drove lot, my daily trip was over 300km so i noticed i need some entertainment to the car. So i started new project: multi core multimedia system
[Image: img_3973.jpg]
[Image: img_3985.jpg]
[Image: img_3986.jpg]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/assa/linux/img_4004.jpg[/img]
[Image: img_4012.jpg]
[Image: img_4037.jpg]

After the long winter i noticed that the intercooler project was i success, my fuel mileage got much better and the engine was cooler, also there was more torque.
So much more that the transmission started to slip jan-feb 2007.
After that i drove lighter and tried to maximize the transmission pressure and that helped for few months. But in April i went to an transmission specialist who serviced my tran. and upgraded it to handled over 500Nm of torque for future upgrades.

New transmission was very good and it shifted like anything before Big Grin
But in autumn 2007 the car failed smog test and i decided it was time to buy another daily driver.
Oldtimer's status got changed from all year around car to summer car and the engine was going to be serviced from bottom to top

will continue
Dec 2007 in my garage:
[Image: jenkki1.jpg]

Lifting the engine off
[Image: jenkki2.jpg]

Nice....Confused
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki8.jpg[/img]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki9.jpg[/img]

Head off, cylinders looked good from distance, but needed service:
[Image: jenkki13.jpg]
[Image: jenkki14.jpg]

The head itself was in good shape:
[Image: jenkki15.jpg]
Removing bottom layer:
[Image: jenkki16.jpg]

Turbo oil pump:
[Image: jenkki17.jpg]

This is why EGR is evil Angry
[Image: jenkki20.jpg]
[Image: jenkki21.jpg]

Bottom end looked good no major problems:
[Image: jenkki-uusi4.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi2.jpg]

Also the crankshaft were okay:
[Image: jenkki-uusi3.jpg]

Pistons also okay, but few of the rings were damaged pretty badly
Here you can see marks from the rings:
[Image: jenkki-uusi6.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi7.jpg]
The head was ultrasound cleaned and mildy ported.
After this it got two layer paint coating:
[Image: jenkki-uusi1.jpg]

Also the block was ultrasound cleaned and got new paint:
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki-uusi8.jpg[/img]
[Image: jenkki-uusi9.jpg]
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/jenkki-uusi10.jpg[/img]
[Image: jenkki-uusi11.jpg]

New parts from good dealer from US:
[Image: jenkki-uusi22.jpg]

Some new oversize pistons:
[Image: jenkki-uusi12.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi21.jpg]
I also decided to change all gears in the engine.
Then engine and chassis had over 600 000km prior service:
[Image: jenkki-uusi14.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi16.jpg]

Block straight from machining and ready for build up:
[Image: jenkki-uusi15.jpg]
[Image: jenkki-uusi17.jpg]

Difference between red block volvo rods and om617 rods:
[Image: jenkki-uusi20.jpg]

Also decided to renwe all the front suspensions parts, they were pretty worn out:
[Image: p1020304.jpg]
[Image: p1020302.jpg]

Powder coating makes big difference to old parts:
[Image: p1020320.jpg]
Head ready build and installed on the block
[Image: p1020292.jpg]

Injectors with new silencio nozzles:
img]http://www.toimii.fi/~oh1jty/auto/300sd/p1020293.jpg[/img]

Engine looks much better:
[Image: p1020312.jpg]

Here it goes back in:
[Image: p1020316.jpg]

It took some while to come to this phase, i had problems to find OM617A parts, especially the pistons were a big headache.
At the mean time i had the chassis fixed from some rust problems in the wheel arches. I removed those annoying chrome thingies from arches and found some nice rust:
[Image: jenkki18.jpg]

Also the injector pump was changed from MW to OM602 M pump, pump was serviced and upgraded by PP-Diesel in Finland.
It has lraged 7mm elements, custom boost controlled "ALDA" and is tuned for high horse powers.

It took whole 2008 to get the engine serviced and back to the car.

So now to the good stuff, bigger turbo Big Grin
Turbo is a master power 322 from Hevosvoima.com
[Image: p1020325.jpg]

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JTY
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GTA2056V

92
01-04-2010, 03:59 PM #2
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Exhaust manifold done by KKDMotorsport
Turbo and manifold installed, looks much better than the original mini turbo Smile
[Image: p1020337.jpg]
[Image: p1020329.jpg]

Around April 2009 it was time for first start.
Everything worked okay and the engine started nicely.
[Image: p1020342.jpg]
Video at youtube

I had some other projects whole summer and the 300SD was standing in garage.
But around December 2009 I decided it was time to re-start the project.
Everything else was ready, only intake manifold was missing, so it was time to start build and custom intake. I had in mind to use original turbo intake but noticed quite quickly that it was bad idea Dodgy

So i started from scratch:
[Image: p1030824.jpg]
[Image: p1030826.jpg]

New intake fits nicely with new exhaust manifold:
[Image: imusarja-final.jpg]
[Image: hukkis1-m.jpg]

As the turbo was without wastegate I installed and external wastgate:
[Image: hukkis3-m.jpg]
Here are the latest shots from last weekend, made some thermal wrapping around manifold and few finishing touches:
[Image: sarja1-m.jpg]
[Image: sarja2-m.jpg]

Engine works nicely with boost, needs few things before going to dyno.
Also going to install my latest version of supermeter:
[Image: p1030334.jpg]
This post was last modified: 07-14-2012, 04:45 PM by aaa.
JTY
01-04-2010, 03:59 PM #2

Exhaust manifold done by KKDMotorsport
Turbo and manifold installed, looks much better than the original mini turbo Smile
[Image: p1020337.jpg]
[Image: p1020329.jpg]

Around April 2009 it was time for first start.
Everything worked okay and the engine started nicely.
[Image: p1020342.jpg]
Video at youtube

I had some other projects whole summer and the 300SD was standing in garage.
But around December 2009 I decided it was time to re-start the project.
Everything else was ready, only intake manifold was missing, so it was time to start build and custom intake. I had in mind to use original turbo intake but noticed quite quickly that it was bad idea Dodgy

So i started from scratch:
[Image: p1030824.jpg]
[Image: p1030826.jpg]

New intake fits nicely with new exhaust manifold:
[Image: imusarja-final.jpg]
[Image: hukkis1-m.jpg]

As the turbo was without wastegate I installed and external wastgate:
[Image: hukkis3-m.jpg]

Here are the latest shots from last weekend, made some thermal wrapping around manifold and few finishing touches:
[Image: sarja1-m.jpg]
[Image: sarja2-m.jpg]

Engine works nicely with boost, needs few things before going to dyno.
Also going to install my latest version of supermeter:
[Image: p1030334.jpg]

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ForcedInduction
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3,628
01-04-2010, 04:14 PM #3
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Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?
ForcedInduction
01-04-2010, 04:14 PM #3

Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

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JTY
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GTA2056V

92
01-05-2010, 04:33 AM #4
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(01-04-2010, 04:14 PM)ForcedInduction Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

Just for getting better pressure control in different situations.
Also i'm going to try different turbine houses later on. Here in Finland we have lot of snow now, so no real road testing in months Dodgy
JTY
01-05-2010, 04:33 AM #4

(01-04-2010, 04:14 PM)ForcedInduction Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

Just for getting better pressure control in different situations.
Also i'm going to try different turbine houses later on. Here in Finland we have lot of snow now, so no real road testing in months Dodgy

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JB3
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Superturbo

1,795
01-05-2010, 09:38 AM #5
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Thats a really, really nice execution! Can't wait to see this thing complete! Beautiful job!

Pretty impressive that the engine still had nice cross hatching in each cylinder after 600,000 km.

Is there a reason you are just putting a filter on your CCV output? or are you intending to run that into the intake or add an oil seperator? My concern would be that after all that spectacular restoration work, it would be a shame to vent oil vapor onto all those nice new clean parts.
JB3
01-05-2010, 09:38 AM #5

Thats a really, really nice execution! Can't wait to see this thing complete! Beautiful job!

Pretty impressive that the engine still had nice cross hatching in each cylinder after 600,000 km.

Is there a reason you are just putting a filter on your CCV output? or are you intending to run that into the intake or add an oil seperator? My concern would be that after all that spectacular restoration work, it would be a shame to vent oil vapor onto all those nice new clean parts.

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JTY
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GTA2056V

92
01-05-2010, 06:28 PM #6
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(01-05-2010, 09:38 AM)dropnosky Thats a really, really nice execution! Can't wait to see this thing complete! Beautiful job!

Pretty impressive that the engine still had nice cross hatching in each cylinder after 600,000 km.

Is there a reason you are just putting a filter on your CCV output? or are you intending to run that into the intake or add an oil seperator? My concern would be that after all that spectacular restoration work, it would be a shame to vent oil vapor onto all those nice new clean parts.

Thanks, it's nice to see somebody likes my execution Blush
That's only for test runs, not going to run with filter only.
I have a breather tank ready, just need to get everything else finished Smile
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
01-05-2010, 06:28 PM #6

(01-05-2010, 09:38 AM)dropnosky Thats a really, really nice execution! Can't wait to see this thing complete! Beautiful job!

Pretty impressive that the engine still had nice cross hatching in each cylinder after 600,000 km.

Is there a reason you are just putting a filter on your CCV output? or are you intending to run that into the intake or add an oil seperator? My concern would be that after all that spectacular restoration work, it would be a shame to vent oil vapor onto all those nice new clean parts.

Thanks, it's nice to see somebody likes my execution Blush
That's only for test runs, not going to run with filter only.
I have a breather tank ready, just need to get everything else finished Smile

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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willbhere4u
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Six in a row make her go!

2,507
01-05-2010, 06:52 PM #7
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nice car keep up the good work!!!

I also have a 94 miata w supercharger

and sold an 85 Maserati biturbo E model with twin liquid intercoolers
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-05-2010, 06:52 PM #7

nice car keep up the good work!!!

I also have a 94 miata w supercharger

and sold an 85 Maserati biturbo E model with twin liquid intercoolers

1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running

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antonmies
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Go MPR

59
01-05-2010, 06:54 PM #8
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(01-04-2010, 04:14 PM)ForcedInduction Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

Actually that's a .70 T3 divided housing, and not that humongous. This one should be running near 300hp in the future with the same turbo so the housing isn't too big. Aaand it made a nice 0,5bar boost when revved without load.
antonmies
01-05-2010, 06:54 PM #8

(01-04-2010, 04:14 PM)ForcedInduction Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

Actually that's a .70 T3 divided housing, and not that humongous. This one should be running near 300hp in the future with the same turbo so the housing isn't too big. Aaand it made a nice 0,5bar boost when revved without load.

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ForcedInduction
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3,628
01-05-2010, 08:46 PM #9
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(01-05-2010, 06:54 PM)antonmies Aaand it made a nice 0,5bar boost when revved without load.

I very seriously doubt that.
ForcedInduction
01-05-2010, 08:46 PM #9

(01-05-2010, 06:54 PM)antonmies Aaand it made a nice 0,5bar boost when revved without load.

I very seriously doubt that.

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antonmies
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Go MPR

59
01-05-2010, 09:09 PM #10
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(01-05-2010, 08:46 PM)ForcedInduction
(01-05-2010, 06:54 PM)antonmies Aaand it made a nice 0,5bar boost when revved without load.

I very seriously doubt that.

Well, I guess you can do that. I sleep well even if you are doubtful Big Grin
antonmies
01-05-2010, 09:09 PM #10

(01-05-2010, 08:46 PM)ForcedInduction
(01-05-2010, 06:54 PM)antonmies Aaand it made a nice 0,5bar boost when revved without load.

I very seriously doubt that.

Well, I guess you can do that. I sleep well even if you are doubtful Big Grin

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ForcedInduction
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3,628
01-05-2010, 09:17 PM #11
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Even the small stock T3 can barely make 7psi revving the piss out of the engine, a T4-clone with a large non-wastegated turbine (even a T3) I know for fact it isn't happening. The laws of physics still apply, even in Finland.
This post was last modified: 01-05-2010, 09:18 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
01-05-2010, 09:17 PM #11

Even the small stock T3 can barely make 7psi revving the piss out of the engine, a T4-clone with a large non-wastegated turbine (even a T3) I know for fact it isn't happening. The laws of physics still apply, even in Finland.

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willbhere4u
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Six in a row make her go!

2,507
01-05-2010, 09:20 PM #12
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It has custom manifolds and a large injection pump I can see it happening!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-05-2010, 09:20 PM #12

It has custom manifolds and a large injection pump I can see it happening!

1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running

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ForcedInduction
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3,628
01-05-2010, 09:29 PM #13
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Its still got only 250cfm going through the engine when free-revving around 5500rpm, no mater what pump you've got on it.
ForcedInduction
01-05-2010, 09:29 PM #13

Its still got only 250cfm going through the engine when free-revving around 5500rpm, no mater what pump you've got on it.

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jeemu
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"some people do, some people talk."

457
01-06-2010, 05:16 AM #14
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I got on my own 605 with same turbo 1bar just pumping.
And that new bigger Master make 0.5bar.

Jty: Nice job on the nice car
This post was last modified: 01-06-2010, 05:17 AM by jeemu.
jeemu
01-06-2010, 05:16 AM #14

I got on my own 605 with same turbo 1bar just pumping.
And that new bigger Master make 0.5bar.

Jty: Nice job on the nice car

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jeemu
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"some people do, some people talk."

457
01-10-2010, 02:26 PM #15
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Here is a video Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07T05bzU40
jeemu
01-10-2010, 02:26 PM #15

Here is a video Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07T05bzU40

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ForcedInduction
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3,628
01-11-2010, 12:37 AM #16
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Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.
ForcedInduction
01-11-2010, 12:37 AM #16

Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

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DervTuning
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01-11-2010, 11:47 AM #17
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Nice, it sounds mean, and revs very quickly. Low inertia flywheel Cool ?

(01-10-2010, 02:26 PM)jeemu Here is a video Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07T05bzU40
DervTuning
01-11-2010, 11:47 AM #17

Nice, it sounds mean, and revs very quickly. Low inertia flywheel Cool ?

(01-10-2010, 02:26 PM)jeemu Here is a video Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07T05bzU40

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jeemu
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"some people do, some people talk."

457
01-11-2010, 03:26 PM #18
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(01-11-2010, 12:37 AM)ForcedInduction Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.
No its not and JTY has alot smaller turbo.
(01-11-2010, 11:47 AM)DervTuning Nice, it sounds mean, and revs very quickly. Low inertia flywheel Cool ?

(01-10-2010, 02:26 PM)jeemu Here is a video Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07T05bzU40
It has Special made CrMo flywheel and 228mm clutch.
This post was last modified: 01-11-2010, 03:28 PM by jeemu.
jeemu
01-11-2010, 03:26 PM #18

(01-11-2010, 12:37 AM)ForcedInduction Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.
No its not and JTY has alot smaller turbo.
(01-11-2010, 11:47 AM)DervTuning Nice, it sounds mean, and revs very quickly. Low inertia flywheel Cool ?

(01-10-2010, 02:26 PM)jeemu Here is a video Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07T05bzU40
It has Special made CrMo flywheel and 228mm clutch.

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ForcedInduction
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3,628
01-11-2010, 04:04 PM #19
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(01-11-2010, 03:26 PM)jeemu Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

It does actually, 4 valves makes a very big difference. Thats why the nonturbo OM606 makes as much power as the turbo 617.
ForcedInduction
01-11-2010, 04:04 PM #19

(01-11-2010, 03:26 PM)jeemu Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

It does actually, 4 valves makes a very big difference. Thats why the nonturbo OM606 makes as much power as the turbo 617.

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jeemu
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"some people do, some people talk."

457
01-11-2010, 05:02 PM #20
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(01-11-2010, 04:04 PM)ForcedInduction
(01-11-2010, 03:26 PM)jeemu Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

It does actually, 4 valves makes a very big difference. Thats why the nonturbo OM606 makes as much power as the turbo 617.
I didint wrote that in your guote and yes i know that 606 flows better and has one cylinder more, thats why i have 4valve/syl engine Smile
jeemu
01-11-2010, 05:02 PM #20

(01-11-2010, 04:04 PM)ForcedInduction
(01-11-2010, 03:26 PM)jeemu Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

It does actually, 4 valves makes a very big difference. Thats why the nonturbo OM606 makes as much power as the turbo 617.
I didint wrote that in your guote and yes i know that 606 flows better and has one cylinder more, thats why i have 4valve/syl engine Smile

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antonmies
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Go MPR

59
01-13-2010, 04:22 AM #21
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(01-11-2010, 12:37 AM)ForcedInduction Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

(01-11-2010, 04:04 PM)ForcedInduction
(01-11-2010, 03:26 PM)jeemu Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

It does actually, 4 valves makes a very big difference. Thats why the nonturbo OM606 makes as much power as the turbo 617.

Boost is created by restriction and better flowing engine gives greater potential with lower boost. Turbo isn't driven only by air, but combustion gases, and if the engine receives too much fuel, it tends to burn in the exh.header/manifold creating more boost by just increasing the rotation speed of the s/wheel. More boost gives more air and fuel pump gives more fuel by using the boost as reference, resulting even more boost. If you are having trouble having boost by just pumping the pedal, the engine may be running too lean to give the turbo enough kick or your turbo doesn't/didn't spin freely .

You may or may not believe the 0,5bar by pumping with the JTY's 617, I've seen the gauge and KNOW it happened. There is nothing to it.
antonmies
01-13-2010, 04:22 AM #21

(01-11-2010, 12:37 AM)ForcedInduction Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

(01-11-2010, 04:04 PM)ForcedInduction
(01-11-2010, 03:26 PM)jeemu Thats not a 617. The 605 flows a lot more air.

It does actually, 4 valves makes a very big difference. Thats why the nonturbo OM606 makes as much power as the turbo 617.

Boost is created by restriction and better flowing engine gives greater potential with lower boost. Turbo isn't driven only by air, but combustion gases, and if the engine receives too much fuel, it tends to burn in the exh.header/manifold creating more boost by just increasing the rotation speed of the s/wheel. More boost gives more air and fuel pump gives more fuel by using the boost as reference, resulting even more boost. If you are having trouble having boost by just pumping the pedal, the engine may be running too lean to give the turbo enough kick or your turbo doesn't/didn't spin freely .

You may or may not believe the 0,5bar by pumping with the JTY's 617, I've seen the gauge and KNOW it happened. There is nothing to it.

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JTY
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01-15-2010, 07:48 PM #22
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There have been some doubts about the turbo being too large and not capable to boost 0.5bar without load. As antonmies said it's true and there's even an quick video on youtube.
And as last comment to this matter, who said the head is stock, there's no pictures of the head for good reason Tongue

Okay back to the track.
There have been some updates to my 300SD.
Went for few test drives and noticed that this thing is a killer in this weather, need to wait for spring. There was no traction at all and the suspension was not handling the added power anymore. So i decided that i need tougher springs.

I ordered a suspension set from Brabus:

[Image: brabus1-m.jpg]
[Image: brabus2-m.jpg]


Also there is now a new version of supermeter420-diesel with few new features specially for my setup:

[Image: supermeter-diesel1.jpg]
[Image: supermeter-diesel2.jpg]
This post was last modified: 07-14-2012, 04:46 PM by aaa.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
01-15-2010, 07:48 PM #22

There have been some doubts about the turbo being too large and not capable to boost 0.5bar without load. As antonmies said it's true and there's even an quick video on youtube.
And as last comment to this matter, who said the head is stock, there's no pictures of the head for good reason Tongue

Okay back to the track.
There have been some updates to my 300SD.
Went for few test drives and noticed that this thing is a killer in this weather, need to wait for spring. There was no traction at all and the suspension was not handling the added power anymore. So i decided that i need tougher springs.

I ordered a suspension set from Brabus:

[Image: brabus1-m.jpg]
[Image: brabus2-m.jpg]


Also there is now a new version of supermeter420-diesel with few new features specially for my setup:

[Image: supermeter-diesel1.jpg]
[Image: supermeter-diesel2.jpg]

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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willbhere4u
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Six in a row make her go!

2,507
01-15-2010, 09:38 PM #23
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Take some more videos of it running for youtube!!! very cool now you just need to do this set up for the w110 200d I've had a couple of those and they are pretty light would make for a fun car!!! I was thinking of dropping a OM617 in my 1958 Mercedes 219 w105
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-15-2010, 09:38 PM #23

Take some more videos of it running for youtube!!! very cool now you just need to do this set up for the w110 200d I've had a couple of those and they are pretty light would make for a fun car!!! I was thinking of dropping a OM617 in my 1958 Mercedes 219 w105

1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running

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Rudolf_Diesel
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Ask me if I care...

579
01-16-2010, 02:26 PM #24
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Nice work! It is nice to see a 300SD getting some upgrades. Can you post a couple more pics of the Intercooler piping? Thanks.
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
01-16-2010, 02:26 PM #24

Nice work! It is nice to see a 300SD getting some upgrades. Can you post a couple more pics of the Intercooler piping? Thanks.

1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects

1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98

Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.

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Tymbrymi
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Klatta Klatta

185
01-17-2010, 09:43 AM #25
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JTY, AWESOME work and writeup!!! Cool We really appreciate you taking the time to document this and show it to us! Smile

EDIT: How did you get stuck with US headlights in Finland?

(01-04-2010, 04:14 PM)ForcedInduction Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

No offense, but do you ever have anything nice to say about someone else's work?
This post was last modified: 01-17-2010, 09:45 AM by Tymbrymi.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
Tymbrymi
01-17-2010, 09:43 AM #25

JTY, AWESOME work and writeup!!! Cool We really appreciate you taking the time to document this and show it to us! Smile

EDIT: How did you get stuck with US headlights in Finland?

(01-04-2010, 04:14 PM)ForcedInduction Why would you need a wastegate with such a humongous turbine?

No offense, but do you ever have anything nice to say about someone else's work?

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!

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GREASY_BEAST
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Holset

411
01-21-2010, 10:22 AM #26
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Wow JTY,

First time looking at this thread. Awesome work! You have done everything to your car that I wish I could do to mine! Can't wait to see the videos.
GREASY_BEAST
01-21-2010, 10:22 AM #26

Wow JTY,

First time looking at this thread. Awesome work! You have done everything to your car that I wish I could do to mine! Can't wait to see the videos.

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JTY
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GTA2056V

92
01-31-2010, 05:04 PM #27
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Had some quality time with my mercedes and got few things ready.
Breather canister, turbo final wrapping and supermeter installation with sensors around engine bay.

No more cold for my turbo:
[Image: huppu.jpg]

Oversight of full setup:
[Image: yleis2.jpg]

Still to do new exhaust, for mean time i have 3" side tube on passanger side Big Grin
This post was last modified: 07-14-2012, 04:47 PM by aaa.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
01-31-2010, 05:04 PM #27

Had some quality time with my mercedes and got few things ready.
Breather canister, turbo final wrapping and supermeter installation with sensors around engine bay.

No more cold for my turbo:
[Image: huppu.jpg]

Oversight of full setup:
[Image: yleis2.jpg]

Still to do new exhaust, for mean time i have 3" side tube on passanger side Big Grin

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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SurfRodder
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Jackass Extraordinaire

611
02-03-2010, 05:09 AM #28
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That is one BEAUTIFUL machine! Keep up the good work man!
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **

S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **

OBK# 62
SurfRodder
02-03-2010, 05:09 AM #28

That is one BEAUTIFUL machine! Keep up the good work man!

W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **

S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **

OBK# 62

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JTY
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02-09-2010, 02:16 PM #29
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Had some fun with the old lady and did some touch up to some parts.
Added some chrome coating to manifold and tubing and black chrome to turbo. Now they should stay good for longer time.

[Image: chrome1.jpg]
[Image: yleis3.jpg]

Also pressure tubing got some chrome coating
[Image: putki1.jpg]
This post was last modified: 07-14-2012, 04:47 PM by aaa.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
02-09-2010, 02:16 PM #29

Had some fun with the old lady and did some touch up to some parts.
Added some chrome coating to manifold and tubing and black chrome to turbo. Now they should stay good for longer time.

[Image: chrome1.jpg]
[Image: yleis3.jpg]

Also pressure tubing got some chrome coating
[Image: putki1.jpg]

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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ID240D
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K26-2

29
02-11-2010, 06:47 PM #30
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That is an awesome car you got. Very nice attention to detail and good fabrication skills.
1983 300D 246,000 with lots of goodies (Sasha)
1980 300TD 200K Third row seat

We live in a world that goes faster every day and it seems there's a lack of time for each one of us



ID240D
02-11-2010, 06:47 PM #30

That is an awesome car you got. Very nice attention to detail and good fabrication skills.

1983 300D 246,000 with lots of goodies (Sasha)
1980 300TD 200K Third row seat

We live in a world that goes faster every day and it seems there's a lack of time for each one of us



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winmutt
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bitbanger

3,468
02-12-2010, 07:46 PM #31
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(01-17-2010, 09:43 AM)Tymbrymi EDIT: How did you get stuck with US headlights in Finland?
I'm assuming they came attached to the SD they came with. Must have been fun getting that imported!!!!

Nice build, great pics. Beautiful work on intake and exhaust.

Can't wait to see some videos.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
winmutt
02-12-2010, 07:46 PM #31

(01-17-2010, 09:43 AM)Tymbrymi EDIT: How did you get stuck with US headlights in Finland?
I'm assuming they came attached to the SD they came with. Must have been fun getting that imported!!!!

Nice build, great pics. Beautiful work on intake and exhaust.

Can't wait to see some videos.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

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JTY
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GTA2056V

92
02-15-2010, 07:46 PM #32
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(02-12-2010, 07:46 PM)winmutt
(01-17-2010, 09:43 AM)Tymbrymi EDIT: How did you get stuck with US headlights in Finland?
I'm assuming they came attached to the SD they came with. Must have been fun getting that imported!!!!

Nice build, great pics. Beautiful work on intake and exhaust.

Can't wait to see some videos.

Thanks, will post some videos when weather gets warmer Big Grin

I tought that it would be nice to keep car as original as possible with minor mods and i like US headlights Blush
When it was imported to Finland they changed the lamps to Hellas H4 E-marked, that's it. It was easy to import these old cars compared to new Mustangs where you need to changed all lights, all glass surfaces, blinkers and so on.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
02-15-2010, 07:46 PM #32

(02-12-2010, 07:46 PM)winmutt
(01-17-2010, 09:43 AM)Tymbrymi EDIT: How did you get stuck with US headlights in Finland?
I'm assuming they came attached to the SD they came with. Must have been fun getting that imported!!!!

Nice build, great pics. Beautiful work on intake and exhaust.

Can't wait to see some videos.

Thanks, will post some videos when weather gets warmer Big Grin

I tought that it would be nice to keep car as original as possible with minor mods and i like US headlights Blush
When it was imported to Finland they changed the lamps to Hellas H4 E-marked, that's it. It was easy to import these old cars compared to new Mustangs where you need to changed all lights, all glass surfaces, blinkers and so on.

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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winmutt
Website Find
bitbanger

3,468
02-15-2010, 07:59 PM #33
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Glass surfaces?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
winmutt
02-15-2010, 07:59 PM #33

Glass surfaces?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

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JTY
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GTA2056V

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02-16-2010, 05:52 AM #34
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(02-15-2010, 07:59 PM)winmutt Glass surfaces?

Yes all windows around the car need to be changed to E-marked glass, really stupid, like DOT glasses are dangerous Tongue
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
02-16-2010, 05:52 AM #34

(02-15-2010, 07:59 PM)winmutt Glass surfaces?

Yes all windows around the car need to be changed to E-marked glass, really stupid, like DOT glasses are dangerous Tongue

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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jagoras
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Naturally-aspirated

19
02-26-2010, 04:43 PM #35
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man that looks nice.
jagoras
02-26-2010, 04:43 PM #35

man that looks nice.

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JTY
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GTA2056V

92
04-14-2010, 05:59 AM #36
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Now the snow is gone in Finland and all roads are dry finally Exclamation
I have made few runs in different situations, master power turbo seems very capable Smile

Here's video very adjusting the injection pump, first time out this spring:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wBXEhcx0ErE
Made few runs yesterday and found out that the car is suffering from fuel starvation on higher pressure, need to consult with the pump guru.
It seems that RPM limiter is catching too low and limitin the fuel.

Here's video where you can see how it goes way too lean:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BnsbmBIV8XA
This post was last modified: 04-14-2010, 06:02 AM by JTY.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
04-14-2010, 05:59 AM #36

Now the snow is gone in Finland and all roads are dry finally Exclamation
I have made few runs in different situations, master power turbo seems very capable Smile

Here's video very adjusting the injection pump, first time out this spring:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wBXEhcx0ErE

Made few runs yesterday and found out that the car is suffering from fuel starvation on higher pressure, need to consult with the pump guru.
It seems that RPM limiter is catching too low and limitin the fuel.

Here's video where you can see how it goes way too lean:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BnsbmBIV8XA

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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04-14-2010, 06:40 AM #37
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There is no such thing as too lean, 19:1 is perfect.
ForcedInduction
04-14-2010, 06:40 AM #37

There is no such thing as too lean, 19:1 is perfect.

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antonmies
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04-14-2010, 09:44 AM #38
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(04-14-2010, 06:40 AM)ForcedInduction There is no such thing as too lean, 19:1 is perfect.

Yeah, when cruising part throttle.

JTY, did you raise the RPM limit as per jeemus advice?
antonmies
04-14-2010, 09:44 AM #38

(04-14-2010, 06:40 AM)ForcedInduction There is no such thing as too lean, 19:1 is perfect.

Yeah, when cruising part throttle.

JTY, did you raise the RPM limit as per jeemus advice?

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04-14-2010, 05:50 PM #39
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(04-14-2010, 09:44 AM)antonmies Yeah, when cruising part throttle.

No, at full load.

The leaner you run (up to a point of diminishing returns obviously) the more of the fuel is in contact with oxygen, you'll be burning completely with maximum power and efficiency.
ForcedInduction
04-14-2010, 05:50 PM #39

(04-14-2010, 09:44 AM)antonmies Yeah, when cruising part throttle.

No, at full load.

The leaner you run (up to a point of diminishing returns obviously) the more of the fuel is in contact with oxygen, you'll be burning completely with maximum power and efficiency.

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04-15-2010, 06:52 AM #40
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(04-14-2010, 05:50 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-14-2010, 09:44 AM)antonmies Yeah, when cruising part throttle.

No, at full load.

The leaner you run (up to a point of diminishing returns obviously) the more of the fuel is in contact with oxygen, you'll be burning completely with maximum power and efficiency.

Hmm, so you honestly think that air makes power?
Ideal burning on diesel fuel happens at 14.6:1 AFR (Lambda=1) and I would say that the best power output is somewhere between 12:1 and 14:1. And that's what we are trying to do: More Power, not to save the planet.
antonmies
04-15-2010, 06:52 AM #40

(04-14-2010, 05:50 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-14-2010, 09:44 AM)antonmies Yeah, when cruising part throttle.

No, at full load.

The leaner you run (up to a point of diminishing returns obviously) the more of the fuel is in contact with oxygen, you'll be burning completely with maximum power and efficiency.

Hmm, so you honestly think that air makes power?
Ideal burning on diesel fuel happens at 14.6:1 AFR (Lambda=1) and I would say that the best power output is somewhere between 12:1 and 14:1. And that's what we are trying to do: More Power, not to save the planet.

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04-15-2010, 08:50 AM #41
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(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Hmm, so you honestly think that air makes power?
So, you think running rich makes efficient power?

Quote:And that's what we are trying to do: More Power, not to save the planet.
So you're also trying to run with high EGTs and put as much heat stress on the engine as possible?

Quote:the best power output is somewhere between 12:1 and 14:1.
In other words, smoking, the best thing for the Diesel's image around the world (not).
This post was last modified: 04-15-2010, 08:51 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
04-15-2010, 08:50 AM #41

(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Hmm, so you honestly think that air makes power?
So, you think running rich makes efficient power?

Quote:And that's what we are trying to do: More Power, not to save the planet.
So you're also trying to run with high EGTs and put as much heat stress on the engine as possible?

Quote:the best power output is somewhere between 12:1 and 14:1.
In other words, smoking, the best thing for the Diesel's image around the world (not).

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Tymbrymi
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04-15-2010, 09:45 AM #42
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(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Ideal burning on diesel fuel happens at 14.6:1 AFR (Lambda=1)

I would suggest reading up on the "smoke limit" for diesels. For diesels it is usually somewhere around 18 or 20:1.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
Tymbrymi
04-15-2010, 09:45 AM #42

(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Ideal burning on diesel fuel happens at 14.6:1 AFR (Lambda=1)

I would suggest reading up on the "smoke limit" for diesels. For diesels it is usually somewhere around 18 or 20:1.

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!

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04-15-2010, 01:58 PM #43
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(04-15-2010, 09:45 AM)Tymbrymi
(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Ideal burning on diesel fuel happens at 14.6:1 AFR (Lambda=1)

I would suggest reading up on the "smoke limit" for diesels. For diesels it is usually somewhere around 18 or 20:1.

Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.
Still we are not saving the planet, just making best power output as possible Smile
Dieseli stoichometric is 14.6:1, gasoline 14.7:1 and so on.
Best power output comes around 13:1 and best fuel economy around 16:1.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
JTY
04-15-2010, 01:58 PM #43

(04-15-2010, 09:45 AM)Tymbrymi
(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Ideal burning on diesel fuel happens at 14.6:1 AFR (Lambda=1)

I would suggest reading up on the "smoke limit" for diesels. For diesels it is usually somewhere around 18 or 20:1.

Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.
Still we are not saving the planet, just making best power output as possible Smile
Dieseli stoichometric is 14.6:1, gasoline 14.7:1 and so on.
Best power output comes around 13:1 and best fuel economy around 16:1.

- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims

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antonmies
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04-15-2010, 02:27 PM #44
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(04-15-2010, 08:50 AM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Hmm, so you honestly think that air makes power?
So, you think running rich makes efficient power?

Quote:And that's what we are trying to do: More Power, not to save the planet.
So you're also trying to run with high EGTs and put as much heat stress on the engine as possible?

Quote:the best power output is somewhere between 12:1 and 14:1.
In other words, smoking, the best thing for the Diesel's image around the world (not).
Increasing power usually increases stress on the engine. Or do you have some other info?
High EGTs are not a symptom of too rich condition but combined with too little advance causes the air-fuel mixture to burn partially in the exhaust manifold dramatically increasing EGTs and overall heat load on the engine (quite similar as running with late ignition advance on a gasoline engine).

I don't think that a 12:1 would make that dense smoke.

Of course in normal driving conditions the engine should run as lean as it goes, but what comes to making power, you'll have to feed her properly.
antonmies
04-15-2010, 02:27 PM #44

(04-15-2010, 08:50 AM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 06:52 AM)antonmies Hmm, so you honestly think that air makes power?
So, you think running rich makes efficient power?

Quote:And that's what we are trying to do: More Power, not to save the planet.
So you're also trying to run with high EGTs and put as much heat stress on the engine as possible?

Quote:the best power output is somewhere between 12:1 and 14:1.
In other words, smoking, the best thing for the Diesel's image around the world (not).
Increasing power usually increases stress on the engine. Or do you have some other info?
High EGTs are not a symptom of too rich condition but combined with too little advance causes the air-fuel mixture to burn partially in the exhaust manifold dramatically increasing EGTs and overall heat load on the engine (quite similar as running with late ignition advance on a gasoline engine).

I don't think that a 12:1 would make that dense smoke.

Of course in normal driving conditions the engine should run as lean as it goes, but what comes to making power, you'll have to feed her properly.

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04-15-2010, 02:30 PM #45
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(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.

Actually it has everything to do with power. If you're smoking you're pumping fuel (and power) out the exhaust, simple as that.

Put the engine on a dyno with the same injected fuel quantity and a 13:1 and 19:1 AFR and I'd bet good money the 19:1 makes more power while running cool enough to make that power for longer.
This post was last modified: 04-15-2010, 02:32 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
04-15-2010, 02:30 PM #45

(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.

Actually it has everything to do with power. If you're smoking you're pumping fuel (and power) out the exhaust, simple as that.

Put the engine on a dyno with the same injected fuel quantity and a 13:1 and 19:1 AFR and I'd bet good money the 19:1 makes more power while running cool enough to make that power for longer.

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04-15-2010, 02:39 PM #46
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(04-15-2010, 02:30 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.

Actually it has everything to do with power. If you're smoking you're pumping fuel (and power) out the exhaust, simple as that.

Put the engine on a dyno with the same injected fuel quantity and a 13:1 and 19:1 AFR and I'd bet good money the 19:1 makes more power while running cool enough to make that power for longer.
Total smokeless yo dont got all power. Grey mist is good.
These mechanical pumps is wery hard tune at car not smoke too much some rpm, thats why we are modified alda and pump timing wheel.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
jeemu
04-15-2010, 02:39 PM #46

(04-15-2010, 02:30 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.

Actually it has everything to do with power. If you're smoking you're pumping fuel (and power) out the exhaust, simple as that.

Put the engine on a dyno with the same injected fuel quantity and a 13:1 and 19:1 AFR and I'd bet good money the 19:1 makes more power while running cool enough to make that power for longer.
Total smokeless yo dont got all power. Grey mist is good.
These mechanical pumps is wery hard tune at car not smoke too much some rpm, thats why we are modified alda and pump timing wheel.

OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis

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antonmies
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04-15-2010, 02:51 PM #47
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(04-15-2010, 02:30 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.

Actually it has everything to do with power. If you're smoking you're pumping fuel (and power) out the exhaust, simple as that.

Put the engine on a dyno with the same injected fuel quantity and a 13:1 and 19:1 AFR and I'd bet good money the 19:1 makes more power while running cool enough to make that power for longer.
Don't see a wideband AFR meter in your car spec list, so how could you tell?

Basically you are on the right trail, but only if you don't give it more injection advance.

I guess that the grey mist mentioned by jeemu appears roughly at 13:1
This post was last modified: 04-15-2010, 02:52 PM by antonmies.
antonmies
04-15-2010, 02:51 PM #47

(04-15-2010, 02:30 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Smoke limits are smoke limits, it has nothing to do with power.

Actually it has everything to do with power. If you're smoking you're pumping fuel (and power) out the exhaust, simple as that.

Put the engine on a dyno with the same injected fuel quantity and a 13:1 and 19:1 AFR and I'd bet good money the 19:1 makes more power while running cool enough to make that power for longer.
Don't see a wideband AFR meter in your car spec list, so how could you tell?

Basically you are on the right trail, but only if you don't give it more injection advance.

I guess that the grey mist mentioned by jeemu appears roughly at 13:1

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04-15-2010, 03:16 PM #48
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(04-15-2010, 02:51 PM)antonmies Don't see a wideband AFR meter in your car spec list, so how could you tell?
Diesels don't need such equipment, especially since soot will foul it and skew the readings over time.
ForcedInduction
04-15-2010, 03:16 PM #48

(04-15-2010, 02:51 PM)antonmies Don't see a wideband AFR meter in your car spec list, so how could you tell?
Diesels don't need such equipment, especially since soot will foul it and skew the readings over time.

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04-15-2010, 03:34 PM #49
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(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Best power output comes around 13:1 and best fuel economy around 16:1.

Are these results from your AFR meter? When does it start bellowing black smoke, etc? I'm VERY interested in this since it would really change how much power you can get out of the engine as far as the calculations I'm using.

(04-15-2010, 02:27 PM)antonmies High EGTs are not a symptom of too rich condition but combined with too little advance causes the air-fuel mixture to burn partially in the exhaust manifold dramatically increasing EGTs and overall heat load on the engine

How advanced over stock do you guys normally run? It sounds like modifying the timing device is absolutely critical to getting the high HP numbers we see. How do you know you've added too much advance? I think Jeemu said something about cracking prechambers?

(04-15-2010, 02:39 PM)jeemu These mechanical pumps is wery hard tune at car not smoke too much some rpm, thats why we are modified alda and pump timing wheel.

Has anyone done any work with the electronic pumps yet? I think that would make a huge difference in what you dyno graphs would look like!
(04-15-2010, 03:16 PM)ForcedInduction Diesels don't need such equipment, especially since soot will foul it and skew the readings over time.

Need... no. Useful to have to gather data? Yes. Although they won't last long as you mentioned. A MAF sensor would give useful data even though it isn't needed on our mechanical diesels.
This post was last modified: 04-15-2010, 03:35 PM by Tymbrymi.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
Tymbrymi
04-15-2010, 03:34 PM #49

(04-15-2010, 01:58 PM)JTY Best power output comes around 13:1 and best fuel economy around 16:1.

Are these results from your AFR meter? When does it start bellowing black smoke, etc? I'm VERY interested in this since it would really change how much power you can get out of the engine as far as the calculations I'm using.

(04-15-2010, 02:27 PM)antonmies High EGTs are not a symptom of too rich condition but combined with too little advance causes the air-fuel mixture to burn partially in the exhaust manifold dramatically increasing EGTs and overall heat load on the engine

How advanced over stock do you guys normally run? It sounds like modifying the timing device is absolutely critical to getting the high HP numbers we see. How do you know you've added too much advance? I think Jeemu said something about cracking prechambers?

(04-15-2010, 02:39 PM)jeemu These mechanical pumps is wery hard tune at car not smoke too much some rpm, thats why we are modified alda and pump timing wheel.

Has anyone done any work with the electronic pumps yet? I think that would make a huge difference in what you dyno graphs would look like!
(04-15-2010, 03:16 PM)ForcedInduction Diesels don't need such equipment, especially since soot will foul it and skew the readings over time.

Need... no. Useful to have to gather data? Yes. Although they won't last long as you mentioned. A MAF sensor would give useful data even though it isn't needed on our mechanical diesels.

John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!! Angel
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way! Undecided
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!

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04-15-2010, 04:00 PM #50
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(04-15-2010, 03:16 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 02:51 PM)antonmies Don't see a wideband AFR meter in your car spec list, so how could you tell?
Diesels don't need such equipment, especially since soot will foul it and skew the readings over time.

Actually they do these days. If you go and see a newer more emission controlled diesel engine, you will see a wideband sensor in the exhaust manifold and sometimes also after the cat converter.
Too rich condition will skew the readings in time, higher EGTs also. Same is with the gasoline engines. Gasoline guys said only 5 years ago that who needs a wide band AFR gauge as narrow band does the trick. And 15 years before that, who needs a lambda meter, you can read the condition from the spark plug color. I think that too many diesel guy lives in that 20 years ago situation: "Just see the rear view mirror" similar to "light brown color is nice"...
I've worked with jeemu a lot during last few years (mostly related to turbocharger issues as I'm a Master Power distributor back here) and learned a whole bunch of info on diesels. And more I've learned, the more I think that they are pretty much like gasoline engines. The symptoms and the way they behave with late or early advance are quite similar as with messing around with ignition advance. The methods differ mainly because of mechanical fuel pump and mechanical everything, but the modern engines with ECMs are quite "the same thing".

Jeemu can answer more specific with the advance questions and the AFR readings I threw in are rough estimates. But as for the dark black smoke, I would say that comes in a region of 10:1. But as now we have the equipment, we are able to share hard data, not just some rear view mirror crap.
This post was last modified: 04-15-2010, 04:01 PM by antonmies.
antonmies
04-15-2010, 04:00 PM #50

(04-15-2010, 03:16 PM)ForcedInduction
(04-15-2010, 02:51 PM)antonmies Don't see a wideband AFR meter in your car spec list, so how could you tell?
Diesels don't need such equipment, especially since soot will foul it and skew the readings over time.

Actually they do these days. If you go and see a newer more emission controlled diesel engine, you will see a wideband sensor in the exhaust manifold and sometimes also after the cat converter.
Too rich condition will skew the readings in time, higher EGTs also. Same is with the gasoline engines. Gasoline guys said only 5 years ago that who needs a wide band AFR gauge as narrow band does the trick. And 15 years before that, who needs a lambda meter, you can read the condition from the spark plug color. I think that too many diesel guy lives in that 20 years ago situation: "Just see the rear view mirror" similar to "light brown color is nice"...
I've worked with jeemu a lot during last few years (mostly related to turbocharger issues as I'm a Master Power distributor back here) and learned a whole bunch of info on diesels. And more I've learned, the more I think that they are pretty much like gasoline engines. The symptoms and the way they behave with late or early advance are quite similar as with messing around with ignition advance. The methods differ mainly because of mechanical fuel pump and mechanical everything, but the modern engines with ECMs are quite "the same thing".

Jeemu can answer more specific with the advance questions and the AFR readings I threw in are rough estimates. But as for the dark black smoke, I would say that comes in a region of 10:1. But as now we have the equipment, we are able to share hard data, not just some rear view mirror crap.

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