Electric Fuel pump
Electric Fuel pump
(07-01-2010, 06:54 PM)Kozuka Can this spring limit 100+ psi because thats what the GL392 & Fuelab are producing..
(07-01-2010, 06:54 PM)Kozuka Can this spring limit 100+ psi because thats what the GL392 & Fuelab are producing..
I'm going to get a fuel pressure gauge and try stretching the spring in the meantime to get more fuel in there. It's probably going to pop the bladder in my lift pump.
(07-08-2010, 04:58 PM)rdirtycar I'm going to get a fuel pressure gauge and try stretching the spring in the meantime to get more fuel in there. It's probably going to pop the bladder in my lift pump.
Using a modified spring in the banjo return, would be better by definition because it is simpler.
Modifying the spring in the banjo return fitting is better by definition because it is simpler. Maybe less fun, but it is the simpler thing to do. What about taping a hole in the top of the banjo bolt and threading in an adjustment screw with a plunger of some sort pushing on the spring? Machine a longer banjo bolt to fit the plunger and spring. i just answered my own question. I haven't even seen where this fitting is on my engine so correct me if I'm really confusing. I think I know.
(07-01-2010, 06:54 PM)Kozuka(07-01-2010, 05:29 PM)GREASY_BEAST What's wrong with the FPR in return banjo? Just put a bigger spring in it to get the pressure you want.
Can this spring limit 100+ psi because thats what the GL392 & Fuelab are producing..
(07-08-2010, 04:58 PM)rdirtycar I'm going to get a fuel pressure gauge and try stretching the spring in the meantime to get more fuel in there. It's probably going to pop the bladder in my lift pump.
Using a modified spring in the banjo return, would be better by definition because it is simpler.
Modifying the spring in the banjo return fitting is better by definition because it is simpler. Maybe less fun, but it is the simpler thing to do. What about taping a hole in the top of the banjo bolt and threading in an adjustment screw with a plunger of some sort pushing on the spring? Machine a longer banjo bolt to fit the plunger and spring. i just answered my own question. I haven't even seen where this fitting is on my engine so correct me if I'm really confusing. I think I know.
(07-01-2010, 06:54 PM)Kozuka(07-01-2010, 05:29 PM)GREASY_BEAST What's wrong with the FPR in return banjo? Just put a bigger spring in it to get the pressure you want.
Can this spring limit 100+ psi because thats what the GL392 & Fuelab are producing..
(07-08-2010, 04:58 PM)rdirtycar It's probably going to pop the bladder in my lift pump.
(07-08-2010, 04:58 PM)rdirtycar It's probably going to pop the bladder in my lift pump.
(07-01-2010, 12:56 PM)Captain America I could easily try the RetroTek Speed pump and regulator since I am the one who makes them
(07-01-2010, 12:56 PM)Captain America I could easily try the RetroTek Speed pump and regulator since I am the one who makes them
They are made in china (out of my control) I torture test them in Riverside/Hawthore at the shop...
Ugh. I should think more before I just post whatever is on my mind. I get so excited though. I better just listen to this post until I actually get my hands dirty cause I really don't know what I'm talking about.
I DO have a few of the hard plastic fuel lines coming in the mail so I might have some interesting stories for my car profile next week.
(07-10-2010, 08:04 PM)rdirtycar Ugh. I should think more before I just post whatever is on my mind. I get so excited though. I better just listen to this post until I actually get my hands dirty cause I really don't know what I'm talking about.
(07-10-2010, 08:04 PM)rdirtycar Ugh. I should think more before I just post whatever is on my mind. I get so excited though. I better just listen to this post until I actually get my hands dirty cause I really don't know what I'm talking about.
Just curious Why anyone would want to run 100 psi gallery-pressure in the IP!
Cant fill anything fuller than full!
25-30 psi is more than enough, the Finns with their extreme tuning dont need more than that!.....
--What becomes important on the levels of tune the Finns use is Flow Quantity at 25 psi, they often use pretty large flow pumps to keep up with the fuel-demand....
(07-11-2010, 11:06 AM)Alastair E Just curious Why anyone would want to run 100 psi gallery-pressure in the IP!
Cant fill anything fuller than full!
25-30 psi is more than enough, the Finns with their extreme tuning dont need more than that!.....
--What becomes important on the levels of tune the Finns use is Flow Quantity at 25 psi, they often use pretty large flow pumps to keep up with the fuel-demand....
(07-11-2010, 11:06 AM)Alastair E Just curious Why anyone would want to run 100 psi gallery-pressure in the IP!
Cant fill anything fuller than full!
25-30 psi is more than enough, the Finns with their extreme tuning dont need more than that!.....
--What becomes important on the levels of tune the Finns use is Flow Quantity at 25 psi, they often use pretty large flow pumps to keep up with the fuel-demand....
Guys, Guys, Guys!!!!!
It ALL depends on how much the pump flows. You guys are thinking backwards. You don't restrict the pressure down from, lets say, 100 psi to 30; You have to restrict the pressure up from 0 psi to whatever your fuel system requires (30 in this case)
If you turn your garden hose on full blast, there is NO pressure in the hose and it will flow as much water as the 3/4" outlet of the faucet allows. Now if you pinch the end of the hose, pressure starts to rise while flow drops.
Pressure and flow are on a balance beam or see saw lets say. If one goes up the other goes down. ALWAYS.
The thing that regulates fuel pressure must flow the same amount of fuel that the pump flows @ 0 psi. Most fuel pumps are rated at a certain pressure. My pumps flow 180lph, 220lph, or 255+lph @ 45 psi. Free flow of the pumps is much more than at 45 psi.
On to the next issue: For almost any EFI fuel pump you use that is externally regulated, the 1/4" return line and that banjo is NOT going to flow enough fuel to keep the pressure down around 30 psi. therefore you will have a higher than desired fuel pressure. I think I will use my FuelOnDemand to control fuel pressure. Instead of a mechanical pressure regulator it is electronic. It pulse width modulates the fuel pump only running it as fast as needed to maintain the desired fuel pressure. Its a pretty slick piece.
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/products/fu...oller.html
Quite the expensive piece too, My bad on the fuel pressure understanding. But my point is still that you can't use the banjo-spring-fpr-thingy. You need a proper fuel pump and pressure regulator. You can't just use some gasser EFI stuff and call it good. You need the right stuff which, arguably would be the fuelab pump & regulator ( or the diesel truck forums say the Walbro GL392 if your cheap ) to do the job right. I'm considering this because of the gasser tank I'm using, the special hoses and routing for the tank make me reluctant to just by-pass them. But we are talking about at-least $500 in stuff. (or around $300 with the Walbro fuel pump)
My question is since we just want stable pressure, we would just leave the pressure reference port to the atmosphere?
Yes, you would leave the reference port open to that atmosphere. In gas EFI since the electric pump solely controls fuel pressure at the injector, the regulator must change the pressure at the inlet of the injector as boost and vacuum effect fuel flow out of the tip of the injector. With our setup the injection pump controls injector pressure so the regulator would not need to do that job.
Your point is right! the banjo-spring-fpr-thingy, hahaha Lmao, will not do the job once you use a badass electric pump such as the Fuelab or equivalent. They just palin flow too much fuel for the banjo to control pressure.
On the Wablro, Those are freaking awesome pumps! They are cheap but very high quality. I have one in my tool box I used to use on my car b4 we started making our own. I don't see why it would fail with diesel use?
Gimme a bit and I'll test a couple different setups on my car:
1.My pump and my regulator
2.Wablro pump and my regulator
3.then both pumps controlled via my Fuel On Demand
Remember that I make the Fuel On Demand so the price you see is retail, It probly costs me half that and I'd give you guys a killer deal.
(07-11-2010, 07:00 PM)Kozuka the low-sulfur diesel fuel doesn't lubricate
(07-11-2010, 07:00 PM)Kozuka the low-sulfur diesel fuel doesn't lubricate
(07-11-2010, 05:42 PM)Captain America Your point is right! the banjo-spring-fpr-thingy, hahaha Lmao, will not do the job once you use a badass electric pump such as the Fuelab or equivalent. They just palin flow too much fuel for the banjo to control pressure.
(07-11-2010, 05:42 PM)Captain America Your point is right! the banjo-spring-fpr-thingy, hahaha Lmao, will not do the job once you use a badass electric pump such as the Fuelab or equivalent. They just palin flow too much fuel for the banjo to control pressure.
(07-12-2010, 05:28 PM)GREASY_BEAST If this is the case then there is no point in proceeding. The outlet fitting on the injection pump is a set size and you will go through hell trying to change that. What's the difference between the 1/4" banjo fitting/fpr and a 1/4" fuel line to some wicked expensive fpr in the terms you are speaking of? I see none. Please show me where I've gone wrong.
(07-12-2010, 05:28 PM)GREASY_BEAST If this is the case then there is no point in proceeding. The outlet fitting on the injection pump is a set size and you will go through hell trying to change that. What's the difference between the 1/4" banjo fitting/fpr and a 1/4" fuel line to some wicked expensive fpr in the terms you are speaking of? I see none. Please show me where I've gone wrong.
While you can only do real world testing in the real world I have the next best thing. Tomorrow morning I will start testing with diesel fuel and one of our fuel pumps and Fuel On Demand. This should be a good compatibility test as I can adjust and monitor line pressure, flow, and current draw by the pump.
Well day one of the pump testing went great! It seem the pumps love diesel... they operate quieter and when the fuel warms up and thins out they flow the same as gas (Heptane).
The lowest temp I could test at was 75 degrees this morning.
Anyone consider adding a second injection pump? Running off of the crank pulley with a wide toothed belt timed in sync with the stock positioned one to add more fuel? You could Y in the fuel lines with a little weld and compression fittings. Probably a cheaper option the messing with elements and all that other non-sense.... at least in theory. And the nice Gates belts are good enough to move 100hp sucking Allison/Detroit blowers... why not an injection pump?
No reason it won't work, except you'll end up spending much more than a myna pump in fabricating brackets and pulleys to make it work. Not to mention figuring out how to make the timer mechanism work in a non-oiled/non-sealed environment and the room to mount it all.
oiling and sealing is easy. i can have an end made up and machine a couple of standard cog pulleys to work on the end of it and on the crank. fabbing brackets and what not is the easy part. just so long as it works in theory, it'll be worth looking into. so long as i can find a cheap injection pump, i could probably build it for under $400.
Go for it take some pics! and let us know how it works out!
(09-21-2010, 11:25 PM)tomnik Increase the number of additional pumps and time them for multi injection.
Modern systems inject 5-7 times (for one combustion stroke).
(09-21-2010, 11:25 PM)tomnik Increase the number of additional pumps and time them for multi injection.
Modern systems inject 5-7 times (for one combustion stroke).
just working on volume right now.... well after i get the damn thing running. then i'll tinker with it seeing as most of the other diesel stuff i've messed with was all in bigger make it run type of situations.
Idea is good, but thats all good about that.
It s not easy make both pumps work together. Here is one tuner test that, but i dont remember why it didint work. He drive on that, but still he change back in one pump version.
would it not be better to go to bigger OD injection lines, slightly cut DV's, EDM'd nozzles, and an electric pump feeding the stock lift pump, or even circumventing the LP altogether?
Bigger lines=more flow= pressure drop at the injectors-unless the pressure can be bumped back up,then better flowing injectors could be used.maybe reworked factory injectors?
Captain, would you be willing to test the pumps on the bench with some filtered WVO?
Id love to get rid of the lift pump and try out a electric fuel pump, i just dont fancy spending 2-300bucks on the pump alone.
I think this thread should be merged with the 'Electric Fuel Pump' thread. Alot of info already discussed in that one......
Have a question for Jeemu, or anyone that can answer this.
If I put a large flow electric fuel pump for example I ahve laying in the garage Bosch 044 pump, should I be worried at regulating the pressure, or let it run non stop once the motor is started.
(09-26-2010, 01:14 PM)garage Captain, would you be willing to test the pumps on the bench with some filtered WVO?
Id love to get rid of the lift pump and try out a electric fuel pump, i just dont fancy spending 2-300bucks on the pump alone.
(09-26-2010, 01:14 PM)garage Captain, would you be willing to test the pumps on the bench with some filtered WVO?
Id love to get rid of the lift pump and try out a electric fuel pump, i just dont fancy spending 2-300bucks on the pump alone.
(09-28-2010, 02:45 PM)Captain America What is the major differences between that and regular diesel?
(09-28-2010, 02:45 PM)Captain America What is the major differences between that and regular diesel?
I don't like that corrosive part one bit!
(09-30-2010, 10:03 AM)Captain America I don't like that corrosive part one bit!
(09-30-2010, 10:03 AM)Captain America I don't like that corrosive part one bit!
(09-30-2010, 10:37 AM)dropnosky Corrosion is a non issue.
(09-30-2010, 10:37 AM)dropnosky Corrosion is a non issue.
(09-30-2010, 10:03 AM)Captain America I don't like that corrosive part one bit!
(09-30-2010, 10:03 AM)Captain America I don't like that corrosive part one bit!
Well, We could test one of my pumps... Well one of you can. I just sent one to Rudolf the other day. I know they work fine with straight diesel as I have already tested them. I can't put WVO in my test stand at work though to do the test myself....
Hmm, is Rudolf using it in place of the lift pump? Or using it to feed the pump?
When i have some extra time and money...actually once my checklist for the car has been cut in half i would definetly like to pick one up.
Can't really see the point putting electric lift pump to a (nearly) stock engine, considering the effort needed and money spent. Mine has had no problems with just the stock mechanical one at around 400hp. Fuel transfer pressures (between filter and IP) are low, maxing around 7psi and going near 0psi on full load, but no problems so far.
Now when reaching for more, I'll put the electric one and remove the stock.
(10-01-2010, 12:19 PM)muuris Can't really see the point putting electric lift pump to a (nearly) stock engine, considering the effort needed and money spent. Mine has had no problems with just the stock mechanical one at around 400hp. Fuel transfer pressures (between filter and IP) are low, maxing around 7psi and going near 0psi on full load, but no problems so far.
Now when reaching for more, I'll put the electric one and remove the stock.
(10-01-2010, 12:19 PM)muuris Can't really see the point putting electric lift pump to a (nearly) stock engine, considering the effort needed and money spent. Mine has had no problems with just the stock mechanical one at around 400hp. Fuel transfer pressures (between filter and IP) are low, maxing around 7psi and going near 0psi on full load, but no problems so far.
Now when reaching for more, I'll put the electric one and remove the stock.
I don't understand. Why is 19psi "wanted" and how does fuel transfer pressure affect on cylinder one wear? Mercs with these stock pumps have been driven over 1,5M miles without pump failure..
Can't believe performance benefits on a nearly stock engine if one raises the transfer pressure. On a performance engine it's different.
Absolute pressure is limited by the lift pump spring strength, even if you loop or block the return flow.
MB says to stretch the relief spring to 27mm, which produces around 30psi with no ill effects.
For low pressure I'd be looking at the check valves right after stretching the relief spring.
(10-02-2010, 10:02 AM)ForcedInduction Absolute pressure is limited by the lift pump spring strength, even if you loop or block the return flow.
(10-02-2010, 03:41 PM)muuris But that mechanical lifter won't make 30psi even if blocked.
(10-02-2010, 03:41 PM)muuris But that mechanical lifter won't make 30psi even if blocked.
(10-02-2010, 10:48 PM)ForcedInduction Then you've got something wrong.
(10-02-2010, 10:48 PM)ForcedInduction Then you've got something wrong.