Could use an estimate from the well versed
Could use an estimate from the well versed
08-16-2010, 04:33 PM
#1
Its either remove the rack limiter, bump boost a little, IC and exhaust OR go the whole 9 and do the previous plus a pump with larger elements and bigger turbo.
From searching I've found the dyno results of stock vs rack limiter removed but havent seen any info on the mild side of tuning. IE rack limiter, exhaust, IC and bumped boost. I know that with a larger turbo and the mod'd 7.5 element pump you can achieve some serious power but what can be had power wise with the low buck mods?
I picked up a 617 yesterday. 195,000 on the clock from a wrecked car. I'm at a crossroads with what I want to do with the motor powerwise. From reading I've become aware of the general fact that theres 2 levels sorta speak that you can take the 617 to.
Its either remove the rack limiter, bump boost a little, IC and exhaust OR go the whole 9 and do the previous plus a pump with larger elements and bigger turbo.
From searching I've found the dyno results of stock vs rack limiter removed but havent seen any info on the mild side of tuning. IE rack limiter, exhaust, IC and bumped boost. I know that with a larger turbo and the mod'd 7.5 element pump you can achieve some serious power but what can be had power wise with the low buck mods?
08-16-2010, 05:05 PM
#2
(08-16-2010, 04:33 PM)stomis havent seen any info on the mild side of tuning. IE rack limiter, exhaust, IC and bumped boost
Changing the exhaust does nothing except change the sound.
ForcedInduction
08-16-2010, 05:05 PM
#2
(08-16-2010, 04:33 PM)stomis havent seen any info on the mild side of tuning. IE rack limiter, exhaust, IC and bumped boost
Changing the exhaust does nothing except change the sound.
08-16-2010, 05:11 PM
#3
(08-16-2010, 05:05 PM)ForcedInduction(08-16-2010, 04:33 PM)stomis havent seen any info on the mild side of tuning. IE rack limiter, exhaust, IC and bumped boost
Changing the exhaust does nothing except change the sound.
Alright any answer to the actual question? saw your dyno chart on the rack limiter was curios what just some boost and an IC would do for it.
(08-16-2010, 05:05 PM)ForcedInduction(08-16-2010, 04:33 PM)stomis havent seen any info on the mild side of tuning. IE rack limiter, exhaust, IC and bumped boost
Changing the exhaust does nothing except change the sound.
Alright any answer to the actual question? saw your dyno chart on the rack limiter was curios what just some boost and an IC would do for it.
08-16-2010, 05:47 PM
#4
The stock injection pump is only good for another 20hp so there are very few changes necessary to support it. If you want any more power than that without changing the injection pump you'll have to inject supplementary fuels to the intake like W/M, propane or natural gas.
More boost alone ≠ more power. Extra boost without the additional fuel only causes backpressure and less power.
ForcedInduction
08-16-2010, 05:47 PM
#4
Install a pyrometer, remove the rack limiter and up the boost to 15psi. An IC is optional, all it does is let you hold the power on for longer before EGTs get high.
The stock injection pump is only good for another 20hp so there are very few changes necessary to support it. If you want any more power than that without changing the injection pump you'll have to inject supplementary fuels to the intake like W/M, propane or natural gas.
More boost alone ≠ more power. Extra boost without the additional fuel only causes backpressure and less power.
08-16-2010, 06:40 PM
#5
(08-16-2010, 05:47 PM)ForcedInduction Install a pyrometer, remove the rack limiter and up the boost to 15psi. An IC is optional, all it does is let you hold the power on for longer before EGTs get high.
The stock injection pump is only good for another 20hp so there are very few changes necessary to support it. If you want any more power than that without changing the injection pump you'll have to inject supplementary fuels to the intake like W/M, propane or natural gas.
More boost alone ≠ more power. Extra boost without the additional fuel only causes backpressure and less power.
Alright now thats some tech I can sink my teeth into thank you.
How bout torque wise? What is the pump capable of putting out for additional torque? About the same?
As far as the IC I'm going to run one since I'll have plenty of the room.
As far as meth, water, propane, or natural gas I'm looking to keep it simple so I'd rather not add systems like these.
(08-16-2010, 05:47 PM)ForcedInduction Install a pyrometer, remove the rack limiter and up the boost to 15psi. An IC is optional, all it does is let you hold the power on for longer before EGTs get high.
The stock injection pump is only good for another 20hp so there are very few changes necessary to support it. If you want any more power than that without changing the injection pump you'll have to inject supplementary fuels to the intake like W/M, propane or natural gas.
More boost alone ≠ more power. Extra boost without the additional fuel only causes backpressure and less power.
Alright now thats some tech I can sink my teeth into thank you.
How bout torque wise? What is the pump capable of putting out for additional torque? About the same?
As far as the IC I'm going to run one since I'll have plenty of the room.
As far as meth, water, propane, or natural gas I'm looking to keep it simple so I'd rather not add systems like these.
08-16-2010, 09:40 PM
#6
(08-16-2010, 05:47 PM)ForcedInduction Install a pyrometer, remove the rack limiter and up the boost to 15psi. An IC is optional, all it does is let you hold the power on for longer before EGTs get high.
The stock injection pump is only good for another 20hp so there are very few changes necessary to support it. If you want any more power than that without changing the injection pump you'll have to inject supplementary fuels to the intake like W/M, propane or natural gas.
More boost alone ≠ more power. Extra boost without the additional fuel only causes backpressure and less power.
Force I was reading an old post of yours that the MW pump maxes out with 14psi of boost. Whats the most efficient way to reach 14psi? Should I grab an off the shelve new china t3 from ebay?
I know a t3/t4 is gonna hinder my grunt down low which I dont want. I've done alot of reading into your variable turbo setup but I really dont want to rig up a system like you have.
I'm basically looking for my best option to get up to 14psi as efficiently as I can. Being as how its gonna be a DD 4x4 application I would say broad range of power is more important than peak. And before you say yes I know the variable setup would be ideal.
K scratch that some more reading yielding you already answered my question else where.
55 or 60 trim t3 for the stock MW
This post was last modified: 08-16-2010, 10:02 PM by stomis.
(08-16-2010, 05:47 PM)ForcedInduction Install a pyrometer, remove the rack limiter and up the boost to 15psi. An IC is optional, all it does is let you hold the power on for longer before EGTs get high.
The stock injection pump is only good for another 20hp so there are very few changes necessary to support it. If you want any more power than that without changing the injection pump you'll have to inject supplementary fuels to the intake like W/M, propane or natural gas.
More boost alone ≠ more power. Extra boost without the additional fuel only causes backpressure and less power.
Force I was reading an old post of yours that the MW pump maxes out with 14psi of boost. Whats the most efficient way to reach 14psi? Should I grab an off the shelve new china t3 from ebay?
I know a t3/t4 is gonna hinder my grunt down low which I dont want. I've done alot of reading into your variable turbo setup but I really dont want to rig up a system like you have.
I'm basically looking for my best option to get up to 14psi as efficiently as I can. Being as how its gonna be a DD 4x4 application I would say broad range of power is more important than peak. And before you say yes I know the variable setup would be ideal.
K scratch that some more reading yielding you already answered my question else where.
55 or 60 trim t3 for the stock MW
08-17-2010, 05:19 AM
#8
(08-16-2010, 06:40 PM)stomis How bout torque wise?Thats up to the turbo. These engines make all their torque right away and steadily decline with RPMs. The sooner you get boost the more torque you can get and the fastest ways for that are a VNT turbo, supercharger or nitrous.
Quote:Whats the most efficient way to reach 14psi?Remove the wastegate cap and turn the 13mm nut 2-3 turns.
Basically the 20hp should cost nothing more than the price of a pyrometer (~$200) and a few hours labor.
ForcedInduction
08-17-2010, 05:19 AM
#8
(08-16-2010, 06:40 PM)stomis How bout torque wise?Thats up to the turbo. These engines make all their torque right away and steadily decline with RPMs. The sooner you get boost the more torque you can get and the fastest ways for that are a VNT turbo, supercharger or nitrous.
Quote:Whats the most efficient way to reach 14psi?Remove the wastegate cap and turn the 13mm nut 2-3 turns.
Basically the 20hp should cost nothing more than the price of a pyrometer (~$200) and a few hours labor.
08-17-2010, 08:38 AM
#9
(08-17-2010, 05:19 AM)ForcedInduction(08-16-2010, 06:40 PM)stomis How bout torque wise?Thats up to the turbo. These engines make all their torque right away and steadily decline with RPMs. The sooner you get boost the more torque you can get and the fastest ways for that are a VNT turbo, supercharger or nitrous.
Quote:Whats the most efficient way to reach 14psi?Remove the wastegate cap and turn the 13mm nut 2-3 turns.
Basically the 20hp should cost nothing more than the price of a pyrometer (~$200) and a few hours labor.
Alright cool. I was wondering if perhaps I was over complicating it.
The motor defiantly wont go un monitored. EGT, Boost, Oil Temp, all the good stuff
I'm not the least bit worried about the EGT regardless though. The thing is gonna have a pretty big intercooler in front of it.
(08-17-2010, 05:19 AM)ForcedInduction(08-16-2010, 06:40 PM)stomis How bout torque wise?Thats up to the turbo. These engines make all their torque right away and steadily decline with RPMs. The sooner you get boost the more torque you can get and the fastest ways for that are a VNT turbo, supercharger or nitrous.
Quote:Whats the most efficient way to reach 14psi?Remove the wastegate cap and turn the 13mm nut 2-3 turns.
Basically the 20hp should cost nothing more than the price of a pyrometer (~$200) and a few hours labor.
Alright cool. I was wondering if perhaps I was over complicating it.
The motor defiantly wont go un monitored. EGT, Boost, Oil Temp, all the good stuff
I'm not the least bit worried about the EGT regardless though. The thing is gonna have a pretty big intercooler in front of it.
08-17-2010, 06:17 PM
#10
(08-17-2010, 08:38 AM)stomis I'm not the least bit worried about the EGT regardless though.
EGTs should be your primary concern in any stage of modification, especially with the stock injection pump. The 5.5mm elements have a very long injection duration when maxed out which means the EGT will get dangerously hot at full power no matter what you do for air cooling.
This post was last modified: 08-17-2010, 06:17 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
08-17-2010, 06:17 PM
#10
(08-17-2010, 08:38 AM)stomis I'm not the least bit worried about the EGT regardless though.
EGTs should be your primary concern in any stage of modification, especially with the stock injection pump. The 5.5mm elements have a very long injection duration when maxed out which means the EGT will get dangerously hot at full power no matter what you do for air cooling.
08-17-2010, 08:04 PM
#11
(08-17-2010, 06:17 PM)ForcedInduction(08-17-2010, 08:38 AM)stomis I'm not the least bit worried about the EGT regardless though.
EGTs should be your primary concern in any stage of modification, especially with the stock injection pump. The 5.5mm elements have a very long injection duration when maxed out which means the EGT will get dangerously hot at full power no matter what you do for air cooling.
Noted. Forced I'm quite new to both diesel and turbo tech. I was a smallblock chevy boy before this little venture.
Only reason I made that comment was due to the fact that I thought an intercooler would be overkill for those mods.
(08-17-2010, 06:17 PM)ForcedInduction(08-17-2010, 08:38 AM)stomis I'm not the least bit worried about the EGT regardless though.
EGTs should be your primary concern in any stage of modification, especially with the stock injection pump. The 5.5mm elements have a very long injection duration when maxed out which means the EGT will get dangerously hot at full power no matter what you do for air cooling.
Noted. Forced I'm quite new to both diesel and turbo tech. I was a smallblock chevy boy before this little venture.
Only reason I made that comment was due to the fact that I thought an intercooler would be overkill for those mods.
08-18-2010, 04:59 AM
#12
(08-17-2010, 08:04 PM)stomis I thought an intercooler would be overkill for those mods.
It is, but it won't stop the effects of long injection. The only two ways to do that are upgrade the pump to larger elements or back off the throttle.
ForcedInduction
08-18-2010, 04:59 AM
#12
(08-17-2010, 08:04 PM)stomis I thought an intercooler would be overkill for those mods.
It is, but it won't stop the effects of long injection. The only two ways to do that are upgrade the pump to larger elements or back off the throttle.
08-18-2010, 11:27 AM
#13
(08-17-2010, 08:04 PM)stomis Noted. Forced I'm quite new to both diesel and turbo tech. I was a smallblock chevy boy before this little venture.
Yeah me too.
It all still applies except you have to think Bassacwards when it comes to diesel
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
08-18-2010, 11:27 AM #13(08-17-2010, 08:04 PM)stomis Noted. Forced I'm quite new to both diesel and turbo tech. I was a smallblock chevy boy before this little venture.
Yeah me too.
It all still applies except you have to think Bassacwards when it comes to diesel
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
08-18-2010, 04:59 PM
#14
(08-18-2010, 04:59 AM)ForcedInduction(08-17-2010, 08:04 PM)stomis I thought an intercooler would be overkill for those mods.
It is, but it won't stop the effects of long injection. The only two ways to do that are upgrade the pump to larger elements or back off the throttle.
Well I've got my place inline for a derv MW pump so it is in the future.
(08-18-2010, 04:59 AM)ForcedInduction(08-17-2010, 08:04 PM)stomis I thought an intercooler would be overkill for those mods.
It is, but it won't stop the effects of long injection. The only two ways to do that are upgrade the pump to larger elements or back off the throttle.
Well I've got my place inline for a derv MW pump so it is in the future.
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