Holset HX35 Install info on om603
Holset HX35 Install info on om603
08-24-2010, 01:39 PM
#101
(08-24-2010, 01:01 PM)mbenzo300td Jonbob, i bought my coolant line from a member off of peachparts. There was also u 601 in the local wrecking yard that turned up. So what are your plans for a downpipe with the hx35?3" good size, but 3.5" can go pretty far with power. I have 3,5" but i haven t measure pressure of db, maybe need bigger.
Because we have different opinions about that HY35 i try to tell why it dont be that good than HX35.
HY35 has 56mm compressor wheel, what is good and it can make power goal what is need on this topic, but what come on the turbine wheel/housing.
It has 58mm wheel and small like apple housing nro 8 single.
That has wheel desing that is "closed" because of emissions and that tiny housing, not good for powerful Euro engine.
And that turbo what i recomending has not much bigger wheels than hy35.
Compressor is even smaller 54mm and turbine wheel 60mm with housing nro 12 divided.
That hx35 turbine wheel has differend profil what flow better than hy35.
This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 02:08 PM by jeemu.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(08-24-2010, 01:01 PM)mbenzo300td Jonbob, i bought my coolant line from a member off of peachparts. There was also u 601 in the local wrecking yard that turned up. So what are your plans for a downpipe with the hx35?3" good size, but 3.5" can go pretty far with power. I have 3,5" but i haven t measure pressure of db, maybe need bigger.
Because we have different opinions about that HY35 i try to tell why it dont be that good than HX35.
HY35 has 56mm compressor wheel, what is good and it can make power goal what is need on this topic, but what come on the turbine wheel/housing.
It has 58mm wheel and small like apple housing nro 8 single.
That has wheel desing that is "closed" because of emissions and that tiny housing, not good for powerful Euro engine.
And that turbo what i recomending has not much bigger wheels than hy35.
Compressor is even smaller 54mm and turbine wheel 60mm with housing nro 12 divided.
That hx35 turbine wheel has differend profil what flow better than hy35.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
08-24-2010, 02:25 PM
#102
(08-24-2010, 01:01 PM)mbenzo300td Jonbob, i bought my coolant line from a member off of peachparts. There was also u 601 in the local wrecking yard that turned up. So what are your plans for a downpipe with the hx35?
Well, I have not figured that out yet. I don't even know how it all butts up. I figure I will make a 4" downpipe at a length that will allow me to easily adapt the 3" straight pipe. Suggestions are certainly welcome.
As for the coolant line. I think I am going to buy a 606 water pump housing, pump, and go from there. Not sure how different that will be but I am sure I can find a parts car to pull from for that piece.
jonbobshinigin
08-24-2010, 02:25 PM #102(08-24-2010, 01:01 PM)mbenzo300td Jonbob, i bought my coolant line from a member off of peachparts. There was also u 601 in the local wrecking yard that turned up. So what are your plans for a downpipe with the hx35?
Well, I have not figured that out yet. I don't even know how it all butts up. I figure I will make a 4" downpipe at a length that will allow me to easily adapt the 3" straight pipe. Suggestions are certainly welcome.
As for the coolant line. I think I am going to buy a 606 water pump housing, pump, and go from there. Not sure how different that will be but I am sure I can find a parts car to pull from for that piece.
08-24-2010, 02:33 PM
#103
(08-24-2010, 02:25 PM)jonbobshinigin As for the coolant line. I think I am going to buy a 606 water pump housing, pump, and go from there. Not sure how different that will be but I am sure I can find a parts car to pull from for that piece.Why you dont use 603 own pump housing? 603 and 606 housing s cant mix. 606 housing has little bore what dont be on 603. There will be leaking water all the way of garage
This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 03:04 PM by jeemu.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(08-24-2010, 02:25 PM)jonbobshinigin As for the coolant line. I think I am going to buy a 606 water pump housing, pump, and go from there. Not sure how different that will be but I am sure I can find a parts car to pull from for that piece.Why you dont use 603 own pump housing? 603 and 606 housing s cant mix. 606 housing has little bore what dont be on 603. There will be leaking water all the way of garage
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
08-24-2010, 03:01 PM
#104
jonbobshinigin
08-24-2010, 03:01 PM #104Mmm...I read that the 606 is more efficient and can swap. I'm concerned cause my 603 hits 100-110 when I step on it and ac is on. So Id like to get temps down a bit.
08-24-2010, 03:10 PM
#105
(08-24-2010, 03:01 PM)jonbobshinigin Mmm...I read that the 606 is more efficient and can swap. I'm concerned cause my 603 hits 100-110 when I step on it and ac is on. So Id like to get temps down a bit.You have to find broplem else where. Maybe ip timing is wrong, then your engine temp will rice. But 606 waterpump housing dont fix the broplem and thoe cant be mix.
Even i cant get my engine water temp rice over 85celcius if i pull full throtle at 1-4 gears. We are using 80 celcius thermostad instead 85celcius.
I think at if better if you clean your radiator system and change new 80 degree hermostad.
If this dont help, you must look the injection pump timing. If those dont help, there is head gasked problem.
This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 03:14 PM by jeemu.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(08-24-2010, 03:01 PM)jonbobshinigin Mmm...I read that the 606 is more efficient and can swap. I'm concerned cause my 603 hits 100-110 when I step on it and ac is on. So Id like to get temps down a bit.You have to find broplem else where. Maybe ip timing is wrong, then your engine temp will rice. But 606 waterpump housing dont fix the broplem and thoe cant be mix.
Even i cant get my engine water temp rice over 85celcius if i pull full throtle at 1-4 gears. We are using 80 celcius thermostad instead 85celcius.
I think at if better if you clean your radiator system and change new 80 degree hermostad.
If this dont help, you must look the injection pump timing. If those dont help, there is head gasked problem.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
08-24-2010, 06:58 PM
#106
I'm also not sure how to check my timing...it runs great so I have no reason to believe it is off but I doubt it had ever been adjusted from stock settings.
This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 07:05 PM by jonbobshinigin.
jonbobshinigin
08-24-2010, 06:58 PM #106Yeh, I had an 80 in, and it was getting warm to I replaced it with a brand new 80 and it did not change. Radiator, water pump, fan clutch have all been replaced in the last 2 years. Coolant has been flushed several times with the benz coolant. ALDA is removed and I get a lot of black smoke so who knows! I am however running an original #14 head but it does not hold pressure overnight or have any of the pressure signs of a bad gasket/head. I definitely need to get this resolved before giving it more juice!
I'm also not sure how to check my timing...it runs great so I have no reason to believe it is off but I doubt it had ever been adjusted from stock settings.
08-24-2010, 09:40 PM
#107
2) The 606.96x water pump housing and water pump bolt right up to the 603.960 block and it works fine. I have this exact setup (along with the 606 turbo fan clutch & 11-blade fan) on my black '87 300D, although it was the previous owner who installed it, not me. I plan to duplicate this setup on my blue 87 300D. The 606 w/p has a larger impeller and increased capacity.
3) We have much warmer climate in the USA, and we have air conditioning, which means AC condensers. Therefore we have higher engine temps in summertime compared to Finland. I've seen almost zero SuperTurbos with factory air conditioning. It's simply not an option to delete the AC in the USA. It hit 104F today in Cupertino (CA). Engine temps ain't gonna stay at 85C in that environment at full load, or with stop & go traffic with the AC on. Be careful when comparing apples & oranges!
4) For those of you tired of any particular person's posts, click their user name, then click "Add To Ignore List". This should eliminate their posts from your view of the thread and potentially reduce your blood pressure.
This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 09:42 PM by gsxr.
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
1) I don't understand why the W140 manifold won't work with the coolant pipe. It comes from an OM603 engine. Are you saying the .960 and/or .961 coolant pipe is different and will not work with the .971 manifold? In that case, the pipe used on the Euro-spec .96x will work, and could probably be purchased new (no idea on cost though).
2) The 606.96x water pump housing and water pump bolt right up to the 603.960 block and it works fine. I have this exact setup (along with the 606 turbo fan clutch & 11-blade fan) on my black '87 300D, although it was the previous owner who installed it, not me. I plan to duplicate this setup on my blue 87 300D. The 606 w/p has a larger impeller and increased capacity.
3) We have much warmer climate in the USA, and we have air conditioning, which means AC condensers. Therefore we have higher engine temps in summertime compared to Finland. I've seen almost zero SuperTurbos with factory air conditioning. It's simply not an option to delete the AC in the USA. It hit 104F today in Cupertino (CA). Engine temps ain't gonna stay at 85C in that environment at full load, or with stop & go traffic with the AC on. Be careful when comparing apples & oranges!
4) For those of you tired of any particular person's posts, click their user name, then click "Add To Ignore List". This should eliminate their posts from your view of the thread and potentially reduce your blood pressure.
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
08-24-2010, 10:16 PM
#108
(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr 1) I don't understand why the W140 manifold won't work with the coolant pipe. It comes from an OM603 engine. Are you saying the .960 and/or .961 coolant pipe is different and will not work with the .971 manifold? In that case, the pipe used on the Euro-spec .96x will work, and could probably be purchased new (no idea on cost though).
The w124 960 pipe is different from the w126 961/971 pipe. And the 126 pipe isn't easy to use in a w124.
(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr 1) I don't understand why the W140 manifold won't work with the coolant pipe. It comes from an OM603 engine. Are you saying the .960 and/or .961 coolant pipe is different and will not work with the .971 manifold? In that case, the pipe used on the Euro-spec .96x will work, and could probably be purchased new (no idea on cost though).
The w124 960 pipe is different from the w126 961/971 pipe. And the 126 pipe isn't easy to use in a w124.
08-24-2010, 10:19 PM
#109
jonbobshinigin
08-24-2010, 10:19 PM #109I did read on another post that some modifying was required to get the 606 housing to work on the 603...I do not remember where however.
08-24-2010, 10:54 PM
#110
(08-24-2010, 10:19 PM)jonbobshinigin I did read on another post that some modifying was required to get the 606 housing to work on the 603...I do not remember where however.The 606 housing lacks pre-drilled-and-tapped holes which are present on the 603 housing. However for the 603.96x in the USA, the holes are not required anyway... there was one present originally for the 50C temp switch that actived the cold shift softener circuit, but I've had that disabled on all my cars for a long time - so the switch can go. There are bosses present where you could drill & tap if desired.
(08-24-2010, 10:16 PM)aaa The w124 960 pipe is different from the w126 961/971 pipe. And the 126 pipe isn't easy to use in a w124.Here's a couple of photos of the pipe in question, on a USA-spec .960 engine.
![[Image: engine_stand3.jpg]](http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_timing_cover/engine_stand3.jpg)
![[Image: thermo-tec3.jpg]](http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM603_exhaust/thermo-tec3.jpg)
This post was last modified: 08-24-2010, 11:00 PM by gsxr.
(08-24-2010, 10:19 PM)jonbobshinigin I did read on another post that some modifying was required to get the 606 housing to work on the 603...I do not remember where however.The 606 housing lacks pre-drilled-and-tapped holes which are present on the 603 housing. However for the 603.96x in the USA, the holes are not required anyway... there was one present originally for the 50C temp switch that actived the cold shift softener circuit, but I've had that disabled on all my cars for a long time - so the switch can go. There are bosses present where you could drill & tap if desired.
(08-24-2010, 10:16 PM)aaa The w124 960 pipe is different from the w126 961/971 pipe. And the 126 pipe isn't easy to use in a w124.Here's a couple of photos of the pipe in question, on a USA-spec .960 engine.
08-25-2010, 01:27 AM
#111
(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr 2) The 606.96x water pump housing and water pump bolt right up to the 603.960 block and it works fine. I have this exact setup (along with the 606 turbo fan clutch & 11-blade fan) on my black '87 300D, although it was the previous owner who installed it, not me. I plan to duplicate this setup on my blue 87 300D. The 606 w/p has a larger impeller and increased capacity.Do you know if there is differenses in eu and us models?
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr 2) The 606.96x water pump housing and water pump bolt right up to the 603.960 block and it works fine. I have this exact setup (along with the 606 turbo fan clutch & 11-blade fan) on my black '87 300D, although it was the previous owner who installed it, not me. I plan to duplicate this setup on my blue 87 300D. The 606 w/p has a larger impeller and increased capacity.Do you know if there is differenses in eu and us models?
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
08-25-2010, 06:20 AM
#112
(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr I've seen almost zero SuperTurbos with factory air conditioning. It's simply not an option to delete the AC in the USA.In CA you might want it, but the climate here in CO is nice enough year round that I've never needed/wanted A/C. I even use my A/C condenser as my intercooler's radiator!
Quote:Right away messages delete and warning levels go high?Only for trolling.
(08-24-2010, 08:38 AM)muuris You are the one who has been mostly wrong in this thread and have mislead people the most!That is false information.
Quote:You are doing better by putting a VNT turbo in a 1970s diesel?Yes. Anyone can throw a big turbo at an engine and dump through lots of fuel to make it spin up, thousands of Cummins owners prove this every day. It takes a functioning frontal lobe to make power cleanly and efficiently.
Quote:The secrects of the most advanced builds are kept in the garage (not referring to me or jeemu) and are not shouted in the Net.Then they're worthless to anyone but the people in that garage.
Quote:Now you're wrong again. Find out how the VP44 timing system works, it is lightyears ahead of the Merc system.That is false. No matter how you look at it, its still a rotary pump. If it actually had significant advantages the Cummins people wouldn't be spending big bucks to convert their engines to the P7100 pump. As it stands, timing is the only positive point to the VP44.
In fact, the OM602.98x uses a VE rotary pump. Why hasn't anybody fitted one of them if the rotary pumps are so awesome?
Quote:You're wrong! That would explain smokingWhich by definition proves your first statement incorrect.
Quote:but how would it explain the engine to lose power, to stall, to shake etc. And just by a miracle, the old seals would fix themselves every time in less than half a minute and work alright until next backpressure peak.The raw oil allowed into the engine and/or exhaust gasses leaking into the lifters causing them to become compressible (filled with a gas instead of oil).
If it were simply a backpressure issue then the engine would recover very quickly as the backpressure is relieved. Since the engine continued to operate erratically that means there are other factors contributing to the problem.
Quote:Isn't this misleading people? Internal wastegates don't work with high hp!Yes, your statement is very misleading.
Quote:Now who might be the worst in these forums.I can think of two...here is a clue: "Location: Finland"
Quote:Aren't you too sensitive? You just ban everyone who criticizes you. Or change other's words in your quotes.That is false information. You lack the necessary data to form an accurate idea of what has been going on. Please try to get the facts straight before making such claims again.
(08-24-2010, 08:53 AM)jonbobshinigin As for the trial and error thing, I simply do not have the funds to buy several turbos, at least not at this very moment.No need. Search and wait. Deals will eventually come along.
Quote:Why goi ass forward on the three.Because "ass forward" is not what he is doing at all. He is building a "275hp" project, not a "550hp" project. What works for one will not translate directly to the other.
This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 06:29 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
08-25-2010, 06:20 AM
#112
(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr I've seen almost zero SuperTurbos with factory air conditioning. It's simply not an option to delete the AC in the USA.In CA you might want it, but the climate here in CO is nice enough year round that I've never needed/wanted A/C. I even use my A/C condenser as my intercooler's radiator!
Quote:Right away messages delete and warning levels go high?Only for trolling.
(08-24-2010, 08:38 AM)muuris You are the one who has been mostly wrong in this thread and have mislead people the most!That is false information.
Quote:You are doing better by putting a VNT turbo in a 1970s diesel?Yes. Anyone can throw a big turbo at an engine and dump through lots of fuel to make it spin up, thousands of Cummins owners prove this every day. It takes a functioning frontal lobe to make power cleanly and efficiently.
Quote:The secrects of the most advanced builds are kept in the garage (not referring to me or jeemu) and are not shouted in the Net.Then they're worthless to anyone but the people in that garage.
Quote:Now you're wrong again. Find out how the VP44 timing system works, it is lightyears ahead of the Merc system.That is false. No matter how you look at it, its still a rotary pump. If it actually had significant advantages the Cummins people wouldn't be spending big bucks to convert their engines to the P7100 pump. As it stands, timing is the only positive point to the VP44.
In fact, the OM602.98x uses a VE rotary pump. Why hasn't anybody fitted one of them if the rotary pumps are so awesome?
Quote:You're wrong! That would explain smokingWhich by definition proves your first statement incorrect.
Quote:but how would it explain the engine to lose power, to stall, to shake etc. And just by a miracle, the old seals would fix themselves every time in less than half a minute and work alright until next backpressure peak.The raw oil allowed into the engine and/or exhaust gasses leaking into the lifters causing them to become compressible (filled with a gas instead of oil).
If it were simply a backpressure issue then the engine would recover very quickly as the backpressure is relieved. Since the engine continued to operate erratically that means there are other factors contributing to the problem.
Quote:Isn't this misleading people? Internal wastegates don't work with high hp!Yes, your statement is very misleading.
Quote:Now who might be the worst in these forums.I can think of two...here is a clue: "Location: Finland"
Quote:Aren't you too sensitive? You just ban everyone who criticizes you. Or change other's words in your quotes.That is false information. You lack the necessary data to form an accurate idea of what has been going on. Please try to get the facts straight before making such claims again.
(08-24-2010, 08:53 AM)jonbobshinigin As for the trial and error thing, I simply do not have the funds to buy several turbos, at least not at this very moment.No need. Search and wait. Deals will eventually come along.
Quote:Why goi ass forward on the three.Because "ass forward" is not what he is doing at all. He is building a "275hp" project, not a "550hp" project. What works for one will not translate directly to the other.
08-25-2010, 08:06 AM
#113
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInduction Yes. Anyone can throw a big turbo at an engine and dump through lots of fuel to make it spin up, thousands of Cummins owners prove this every day. It takes a functioning frontal lobe to make power cleanly and efficiently.Then I'm lightyears ahead of you. VGT in a more efficient engine, multiple times the power and better mileage. Doesn't even smoke heavily
Btw. Even though anyone can throw a big turbo in, not everyone uses garden hose in engine compartment
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInduction That is false. No matter how you look at it, its still a rotary pump. If it actually had significant advantages the Cummins people wouldn't be spending big bucks to convert their engines to the P7100 pump.Was I talking about high power or better timing? Rotary is not good for heavy fueling, that is known. P7100 is ultimate for max power. But:
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInduction As it stands, timing is the only positive point to the VP44.We do agree on this. This is all I claimed, it has better timing device than Merc. I wouldn't take a rotary, except for 4-cyl engine. Merc IP + that timing device would be worth something.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionAgain, lacking explanations. I've given mine, where are yours?muuris Isn't this misleading people? Internal wastegates don't work with high hp!Yes, your statement is very misleading.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionYeah, right. I don't change words when quoting others. Haven't seen jeemu do it either. But you do.muuris Now who might be the worst in these forums.I can think of two...here is a clue: "Location: Finland"
Maybe it's the language barrier. Should we make a poll who's the most irritating/hypocrite in the forums? If that's what majority wants, I can go back tuning engines and leave you guys with Mr.Forced's tech tips.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionHave you checked my email and phone records also? Many guys think that even though you have lots of good info, it becomes useless because of your ass behaviour, über-ego, you-wrong-me-right-attitude and lacking the ability to admit that even you are wrong sometimes. This is not trolling, this is "having balls" as you wanted.muuris Aren't you too sensitive? You just ban everyone who criticizes you. Or change other's words in your quotes.That is false information. You lack the necessary data to form an accurate idea of what has been going on. Please try to get the facts straight before making such claims again.
This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 08:15 AM by muuris.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInduction Yes. Anyone can throw a big turbo at an engine and dump through lots of fuel to make it spin up, thousands of Cummins owners prove this every day. It takes a functioning frontal lobe to make power cleanly and efficiently.Then I'm lightyears ahead of you. VGT in a more efficient engine, multiple times the power and better mileage. Doesn't even smoke heavily
Btw. Even though anyone can throw a big turbo in, not everyone uses garden hose in engine compartment
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInduction That is false. No matter how you look at it, its still a rotary pump. If it actually had significant advantages the Cummins people wouldn't be spending big bucks to convert their engines to the P7100 pump.Was I talking about high power or better timing? Rotary is not good for heavy fueling, that is known. P7100 is ultimate for max power. But:
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInduction As it stands, timing is the only positive point to the VP44.We do agree on this. This is all I claimed, it has better timing device than Merc. I wouldn't take a rotary, except for 4-cyl engine. Merc IP + that timing device would be worth something.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionAgain, lacking explanations. I've given mine, where are yours?muuris Isn't this misleading people? Internal wastegates don't work with high hp!Yes, your statement is very misleading.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionYeah, right. I don't change words when quoting others. Haven't seen jeemu do it either. But you do.muuris Now who might be the worst in these forums.I can think of two...here is a clue: "Location: Finland"
Maybe it's the language barrier. Should we make a poll who's the most irritating/hypocrite in the forums? If that's what majority wants, I can go back tuning engines and leave you guys with Mr.Forced's tech tips.
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionHave you checked my email and phone records also? Many guys think that even though you have lots of good info, it becomes useless because of your ass behaviour, über-ego, you-wrong-me-right-attitude and lacking the ability to admit that even you are wrong sometimes. This is not trolling, this is "having balls" as you wanted.muuris Aren't you too sensitive? You just ban everyone who criticizes you. Or change other's words in your quotes.That is false information. You lack the necessary data to form an accurate idea of what has been going on. Please try to get the facts straight before making such claims again.
08-25-2010, 08:44 AM
#114
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionCA, OR, NV, ID, TX, FL, AZ, and probably another 30+ states all have summer climates that would be miserable without AC. Even if you live somewhere that it's not really needed, that assumes you never travel with the car. I believe the original poster is located in Florida, and I'm fairly certain he isn't interested in tossing the AC to facilitate intercooling... but I'll let him clarify that. Now, for building a toy / race car that isn't driven frequently, sure... it would be fun to lose the weight and make room for a giant IC. But for a daily driver - no way!(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr I've seen almost zero SuperTurbos with factory air conditioning. It's simply not an option to delete the AC in the USA.In CA you might want it, but the climate here in CO is nice enough year round that I've never needed/wanted A/C. I even use my A/C condenser as my intercooler's radiator!
(08-25-2010, 06:20 AM)ForcedInductionCA, OR, NV, ID, TX, FL, AZ, and probably another 30+ states all have summer climates that would be miserable without AC. Even if you live somewhere that it's not really needed, that assumes you never travel with the car. I believe the original poster is located in Florida, and I'm fairly certain he isn't interested in tossing the AC to facilitate intercooling... but I'll let him clarify that. Now, for building a toy / race car that isn't driven frequently, sure... it would be fun to lose the weight and make room for a giant IC. But for a daily driver - no way!(08-24-2010, 09:40 PM)gsxr I've seen almost zero SuperTurbos with factory air conditioning. It's simply not an option to delete the AC in the USA.In CA you might want it, but the climate here in CO is nice enough year round that I've never needed/wanted A/C. I even use my A/C condenser as my intercooler's radiator!
08-25-2010, 04:46 PM
#116
(08-25-2010, 04:34 PM)winmutt If anyone is going to do any cock swaggering it is me.And you best friend Forced.
My user name can be delete, ban or how like it best for you.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
(08-25-2010, 04:34 PM)winmutt If anyone is going to do any cock swaggering it is me.And you best friend Forced.
My user name can be delete, ban or how like it best for you.
OM605 600hp diesel drag car build with BMW E30 chassis
08-25-2010, 06:54 PM
#117
GSXR - You are correct in that I am wanting AC here in Florida. That is part of my daily driver requirement.
Muuris - Your info has been great, if you do not hang around here, come on over to PeachParts Diesel Tuning section! I believe it is agreed that if we took a poll, that the majority would vote that ForcedInduction's attitude and methods of communicating are certainly not preferable.
Here seems to be the format:
Forced joins a forum, has good knowledge most of the time. His delivery is often questionable and has an attitude. A confrontation occurs whereby he either gets banned, leaves, or members of that community leave, and/or the forum becomes private. He is the common factor.
Whether he is right or wrong,his method of discussing the matter pisses people off and then people like Jeemu and Muuris...actual Finns with actual fast cars leave.
Suck Meter: [-|------------------------------]
My post got deleted and as the original poster, I feel like I should be able to state that I clearly have the largest penis. I can clutter my own thread with jokes right? And I actually used the on topic word "turbo" in said post...if that counts.
This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 07:51 PM by jonbobshinigin.
jonbobshinigin
08-25-2010, 06:54 PM #117Jeemu - Your posts are extremely valuable to me...I will stay in touch if you leave.
GSXR - You are correct in that I am wanting AC here in Florida. That is part of my daily driver requirement.
Muuris - Your info has been great, if you do not hang around here, come on over to PeachParts Diesel Tuning section! I believe it is agreed that if we took a poll, that the majority would vote that ForcedInduction's attitude and methods of communicating are certainly not preferable.
Here seems to be the format:
Forced joins a forum, has good knowledge most of the time. His delivery is often questionable and has an attitude. A confrontation occurs whereby he either gets banned, leaves, or members of that community leave, and/or the forum becomes private. He is the common factor.
Whether he is right or wrong,his method of discussing the matter pisses people off and then people like Jeemu and Muuris...actual Finns with actual fast cars leave.
Suck Meter: [-|------------------------------]
My post got deleted and as the original poster, I feel like I should be able to state that I clearly have the largest penis. I can clutter my own thread with jokes right? And I actually used the on topic word "turbo" in said post...if that counts.
08-25-2010, 07:15 PM
#118
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Then I'm lightyears ahead of you. VGT in a more efficient engine, multiple times the power and better mileage. Doesn't even smoke heavilyCongratulations. All I've seen you post about it is some wide shot pictures and generalized descriptions.
(08-25-2010, 04:46 PM)jeemu My user name can be delete, ban or how like it best for you.Yawn. Thats makes the third time you've said that... Ever read "the boy who cried wolf"?
Quote:Again, lacking explanations. I've given mine, where are yours?Exactly, very vague. What is "high HP" to you?
Quote:This is not trolling, this is "having balls" as you wanted.Congratulations again, you're learning.
I notice you skipped the question "In fact, the OM602.98x uses a VE rotary pump. Why hasn't anybody fitted one of them if the rotary pumps are so awesome?"
(08-25-2010, 08:44 AM)gsxr Now, for building a toy / race car that isn't driven frequently, sure... it would be fun to lose the weight and make room for a giant IC. But for a daily driver - no way!It depends on the climate and the driver's sense of comfort. My 300D hasn't had functioning A/C since I bought it, I didn't even bother trying to turn it on before removing the HVAC system! CO summers are mild compared to CA, but we still frequently get into the 90's. Hell, I haven't even turned on the A/C in my home for 4 years! All you need is a little airflow to prevent stagnant air.
This post was last modified: 08-25-2010, 07:17 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
08-25-2010, 07:15 PM
#118
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Then I'm lightyears ahead of you. VGT in a more efficient engine, multiple times the power and better mileage. Doesn't even smoke heavilyCongratulations. All I've seen you post about it is some wide shot pictures and generalized descriptions.
(08-25-2010, 04:46 PM)jeemu My user name can be delete, ban or how like it best for you.Yawn. Thats makes the third time you've said that... Ever read "the boy who cried wolf"?
Quote:Again, lacking explanations. I've given mine, where are yours?Exactly, very vague. What is "high HP" to you?
Quote:This is not trolling, this is "having balls" as you wanted.Congratulations again, you're learning.
I notice you skipped the question "In fact, the OM602.98x uses a VE rotary pump. Why hasn't anybody fitted one of them if the rotary pumps are so awesome?"
(08-25-2010, 08:44 AM)gsxr Now, for building a toy / race car that isn't driven frequently, sure... it would be fun to lose the weight and make room for a giant IC. But for a daily driver - no way!It depends on the climate and the driver's sense of comfort. My 300D hasn't had functioning A/C since I bought it, I didn't even bother trying to turn it on before removing the HVAC system! CO summers are mild compared to CA, but we still frequently get into the 90's. Hell, I haven't even turned on the A/C in my home for 4 years! All you need is a little airflow to prevent stagnant air.
08-25-2010, 07:55 PM
#119
jonbobshinigin
08-25-2010, 07:55 PM #119I absolutely want A/C! It is Florida, HOT, and we have lots-o-humidity! If I had a project diesel for mostly track purposes, I would definitely yank the AC out and tune it up and drive it on a track and in the winter though. Part of my appeal is that it is a Wagon...who in the US has a fast Mercedes Diesel Wagon? I cannot wait to get it going and take it to the tracks!
08-25-2010, 09:17 PM
#120
(08-25-2010, 07:55 PM)jonbobshinigin ...who in the US has a fast Mercedes Diesel Wagon? I cannot wait to get it going and take it to the tracks!
Zeitgeist (Casey) is working on an uber-Wagon right now, a 1987 300TD which is getting an OM606 turbo engine. I am not sure what his ultimate power goal is but I suspect it's in the 250-300hp range as a minimum, possibly 400+.
My hybrid pump project has finally made progress, with 6mm elements it put out approx 79ccm on the calibration bench. I think that should be good for approx 220hp, assuming there's enough airflow to feed it (with the stock 603.960 turbocharger, that's questionable - but I hope to find out! LOL!) Mine will be a sedan though.
Does anyone in the USA have any OM603 engine beyond 200hp, right now, running & driving? I know of several incomplete projects, but none actually on the road. I was just wondering if mine might be the first...? That is assuming I get the pump installed anytime soon!
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
(08-25-2010, 07:55 PM)jonbobshinigin ...who in the US has a fast Mercedes Diesel Wagon? I cannot wait to get it going and take it to the tracks!
Zeitgeist (Casey) is working on an uber-Wagon right now, a 1987 300TD which is getting an OM606 turbo engine. I am not sure what his ultimate power goal is but I suspect it's in the 250-300hp range as a minimum, possibly 400+.
My hybrid pump project has finally made progress, with 6mm elements it put out approx 79ccm on the calibration bench. I think that should be good for approx 220hp, assuming there's enough airflow to feed it (with the stock 603.960 turbocharger, that's questionable - but I hope to find out! LOL!) Mine will be a sedan though.
Does anyone in the USA have any OM603 engine beyond 200hp, right now, running & driving? I know of several incomplete projects, but none actually on the road. I was just wondering if mine might be the first...? That is assuming I get the pump installed anytime soon!
Dave M.
Boise, ID, USA
1997 E420 - 149kmi (Bugeyes)
1994 E420 - 136kmi (Blondie)
1994 E500 - 116kmi (Q-ship)
1992 500E - 179kmi (Mach 5)
1987 300D - 330kmi (Sportline Stage 2)
Click here for my website!
08-26-2010, 12:47 AM
#121
. I will also try my condenser as a intercooler radiator...I agree with all of you actually to some extent. It seems as though forced is on some kind of god pedestal most of the time, speaking way above a beginner (me) or somewhat experienced person's knowledge; giving very vague, short, answers with no real usable info.
No reason to post and keep secrets.
Forced takes all criticism like someone is trying to fight him. He comes back with disrespectful remarks, that help absolutely nothing. As he stated... This forum is a place for learning in which he helps with his threads but does the opposite when faced with questioning.... TAKE IT EASY DUDE!
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Many guys think that even though you have lots of good info, it becomes useless because of your ass behaviour, über-ego, you-wrong-me-right-attitude and lacking the ability to admit that even you are wrong sometimes. This is not trolling, this is "having balls" as you wanted.
I agree. Lighten up!
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Maybe it's the language barrier. Should we make a poll who's the most irritating/hypocrite in the forums? If that's what majority wants, I can go back tuning engines and leave you guys with Mr.Forced's tech tips.
Agree again.
(08-25-2010, 06:54 PM)jonbobshinigin Here seems to be the format:
Forced joins a forum, has good knowledge most of the time. His delivery is often questionable and has an attitude. A confrontation occurs whereby he either gets banned, leaves, or members of that community leave, and/or the forum becomes private. He is the common factor.
Whether he is right or wrong,his method of discussing the matter pisses people off and then people like Jeemu and Muuris...actual Finns with actual fast cars leave.
Suck Meter: [-|------------------------------]
Yup
Moral of the story: Everyone needs to settle the Eff down!
This post was last modified: 08-26-2010, 12:52 AM by Captain America.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
08-26-2010, 12:47 AM #121I do not want, need, or dream of AC in any of my cars here in Southern California.... No need. AC is for weenies . I will also try my condenser as a intercooler radiator...
I agree with all of you actually to some extent. It seems as though forced is on some kind of god pedestal most of the time, speaking way above a beginner (me) or somewhat experienced person's knowledge; giving very vague, short, answers with no real usable info.
No reason to post and keep secrets.
Forced takes all criticism like someone is trying to fight him. He comes back with disrespectful remarks, that help absolutely nothing. As he stated... This forum is a place for learning in which he helps with his threads but does the opposite when faced with questioning.... TAKE IT EASY DUDE!
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Many guys think that even though you have lots of good info, it becomes useless because of your ass behaviour, über-ego, you-wrong-me-right-attitude and lacking the ability to admit that even you are wrong sometimes. This is not trolling, this is "having balls" as you wanted.
I agree. Lighten up!
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Maybe it's the language barrier. Should we make a poll who's the most irritating/hypocrite in the forums? If that's what majority wants, I can go back tuning engines and leave you guys with Mr.Forced's tech tips.
Agree again.
(08-25-2010, 06:54 PM)jonbobshinigin Here seems to be the format:
Forced joins a forum, has good knowledge most of the time. His delivery is often questionable and has an attitude. A confrontation occurs whereby he either gets banned, leaves, or members of that community leave, and/or the forum becomes private. He is the common factor.
Whether he is right or wrong,his method of discussing the matter pisses people off and then people like Jeemu and Muuris...actual Finns with actual fast cars leave.
Suck Meter: [-|------------------------------]
Yup
Moral of the story: Everyone needs to settle the Eff down!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
08-26-2010, 04:21 AM
#122
(08-25-2010, 07:15 PM)ForcedInduction Exactly, very vague. What is "high HP" to you?As I wrote earlier, I started having problems with HX35 internal wastegate with under 250hp. Depends on timing etc, but at least for over 250hp I'd put the big external one.
(08-25-2010, 07:15 PM)ForcedInduction I notice you skipped the question "In fact, the OM602.98x uses a VE rotary pump. Why hasn't anybody fitted one of them if the rotary pumps are so awesome?"I wrote these, I believe they include my answer to that question also:
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Was I talking about high power or better timing? Rotary is not good for heavy fueling, that is known. P7100 is ultimate for max power.
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris I wouldn't take a rotary, except for 4-cyl engine. Merc IP + that timing device would be worth something.
Okay, enough it is. I'm not going to argue any more on this forum. If you (Forced) missed something, read my earlier posts again.
This post was last modified: 08-26-2010, 04:23 AM by muuris.
(08-25-2010, 07:15 PM)ForcedInduction Exactly, very vague. What is "high HP" to you?As I wrote earlier, I started having problems with HX35 internal wastegate with under 250hp. Depends on timing etc, but at least for over 250hp I'd put the big external one.
(08-25-2010, 07:15 PM)ForcedInduction I notice you skipped the question "In fact, the OM602.98x uses a VE rotary pump. Why hasn't anybody fitted one of them if the rotary pumps are so awesome?"I wrote these, I believe they include my answer to that question also:
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris Was I talking about high power or better timing? Rotary is not good for heavy fueling, that is known. P7100 is ultimate for max power.
(08-25-2010, 08:06 AM)muuris I wouldn't take a rotary, except for 4-cyl engine. Merc IP + that timing device would be worth something.
Okay, enough it is. I'm not going to argue any more on this forum. If you (Forced) missed something, read my earlier posts again.
08-26-2010, 08:02 AM
#123
(08-26-2010, 04:21 AM)muuris As I wrote earlier, I started having problems with HX35 internal wastegate with under 250hp. Depends on timing etc, but at least for over 250hp I'd put the big external one.Thats where we differ in opinion. 250hp is more mid-range to me. Over here we have pickups making over 300hp and Ford's new PowerStroke will be 400hp, stock. All of which have used wastegated turbos in their 250-305hp range and a normal VNT to over 300HP. Ford's new PowerStroke being an exception, it uses a VNT with a wastegate due to its extremely poor design (two parallel compressors with a single tiny turbine).
Quote:Okay, enough it is. I'm not going to argue any more on this forum. If you (Forced) missed something, read my earlier posts again.I haven't missed a thing, you're lacking information. All you've stated is your opinion that you wouldn't want one.
I have seen a 602.98 modified with a 617's MW IP so it should be workable the other way too. Several people here have also shown interest in getting a 2.5L Audi's pump just to see if they could make it work.
This post was last modified: 08-26-2010, 08:04 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
08-26-2010, 08:02 AM
#123
(08-26-2010, 04:21 AM)muuris As I wrote earlier, I started having problems with HX35 internal wastegate with under 250hp. Depends on timing etc, but at least for over 250hp I'd put the big external one.Thats where we differ in opinion. 250hp is more mid-range to me. Over here we have pickups making over 300hp and Ford's new PowerStroke will be 400hp, stock. All of which have used wastegated turbos in their 250-305hp range and a normal VNT to over 300HP. Ford's new PowerStroke being an exception, it uses a VNT with a wastegate due to its extremely poor design (two parallel compressors with a single tiny turbine).
Quote:Okay, enough it is. I'm not going to argue any more on this forum. If you (Forced) missed something, read my earlier posts again.I haven't missed a thing, you're lacking information. All you've stated is your opinion that you wouldn't want one.
I have seen a 602.98 modified with a 617's MW IP so it should be workable the other way too. Several people here have also shown interest in getting a 2.5L Audi's pump just to see if they could make it work.
08-26-2010, 08:31 AM
#124
I wouldn't want rotary for more than 4-cyl engine because of fueling problems at high revs. I know there is about 350 hp Audi/VW I5 diesel in Finland, with VE pump. For a 250 hp engine its good option as it's cheap and better to tune than basic mechanical M/MW. Even better when talking about DDE-VE. But when wanting higher hp, it becomes inevitably a restriction. Others have put 14mm distributors, but those pumps just haven't lasted for long because of huge internal stresses (+timing belt stress) and non-robust internals.
I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.
I agree, 250 hp is mid-range power. But on this forum, it is definitely high power. Other turbos might have bigger internal wastegate, but as for the HX35 which was under discussion, I've told my experiences.
I wouldn't want rotary for more than 4-cyl engine because of fueling problems at high revs. I know there is about 350 hp Audi/VW I5 diesel in Finland, with VE pump. For a 250 hp engine its good option as it's cheap and better to tune than basic mechanical M/MW. Even better when talking about DDE-VE. But when wanting higher hp, it becomes inevitably a restriction. Others have put 14mm distributors, but those pumps just haven't lasted for long because of huge internal stresses (+timing belt stress) and non-robust internals.
I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.
08-26-2010, 09:28 AM
#126
(08-26-2010, 08:58 AM)winmutt(08-26-2010, 08:31 AM)muuris I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.Has anyone done this?
keeping the PCs or DI? DI means changing pistons and head...
it will end up in electronics to control the injection (s).
I personally would be happy to get my electronic VTG controller...
Tom
(08-26-2010, 08:58 AM)winmutt(08-26-2010, 08:31 AM)muuris I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.Has anyone done this?
keeping the PCs or DI? DI means changing pistons and head...
it will end up in electronics to control the injection (s).
I personally would be happy to get my electronic VTG controller...
Tom
08-26-2010, 09:35 AM
#127
(08-26-2010, 08:58 AM)winmuttNot that I know of. Bosch CR equipment is +10 000eur. It seems that those who need civilized power and max low end grunt go for newer CR engines in the first place. Those seeking for +600hp small diesel, go for OM606.(08-26-2010, 08:31 AM)muuris I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.Has anyone done this?
But even with CR equipment, it would still be a high rev engine. I recently put inspection settings to mine: LDA not operational, ~140hp fueling so doesn't smoke without boost. Engine clearly becomes alive after 3000rpm, just like old fashioned N/A petrol.
(08-26-2010, 09:28 AM)tomnik keeping the PCs or DI? DI means changing pistons and head...Of course meaning only injection control. Makes no sense converting 606 to DI, as there already is CDI and you would lose the best thing in the engine (power at high revs).
it will end up in electronics to control the injection (s).
(08-26-2010, 08:58 AM)winmuttNot that I know of. Bosch CR equipment is +10 000eur. It seems that those who need civilized power and max low end grunt go for newer CR engines in the first place. Those seeking for +600hp small diesel, go for OM606.(08-26-2010, 08:31 AM)muuris I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.Has anyone done this?
But even with CR equipment, it would still be a high rev engine. I recently put inspection settings to mine: LDA not operational, ~140hp fueling so doesn't smoke without boost. Engine clearly becomes alive after 3000rpm, just like old fashioned N/A petrol.
(08-26-2010, 09:28 AM)tomnik keeping the PCs or DI? DI means changing pistons and head...Of course meaning only injection control. Makes no sense converting 606 to DI, as there already is CDI and you would lose the best thing in the engine (power at high revs).
it will end up in electronics to control the injection (s).
08-26-2010, 05:10 PM
#128
(08-26-2010, 08:31 AM)muuris I know there is about 350 hp Audi/VW I5 diesel in Finland, with VE pump. For a 250 hp engine its good option as it's cheap and better to tune than basic mechanical M/MW. Even better when talking about DDE-VE.How about the earlier mechanical VE6 from a Cummins on a 603/606?
It wouldn't be horribly difficult to machine a drive coupler adapter and lock up the chain timer.
But thats a different topic that already has a thread.....
Quote:I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.Wouldn't we all. With the money it would cost for R&D, and you'd still have to live with the 15% IDI loss, it would be far cheaper to transplant an OM613/648.
There is one person with 330hp/560lbft in his CLK with an AMG OM612. The extra cylinder of the 3.2L engine should bring that figure up to 400hp.
http://www.mbworld.org/forums/clk-class-...oject.html
This post was last modified: 08-26-2010, 05:13 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
08-26-2010, 05:10 PM
#128
(08-26-2010, 08:31 AM)muuris I know there is about 350 hp Audi/VW I5 diesel in Finland, with VE pump. For a 250 hp engine its good option as it's cheap and better to tune than basic mechanical M/MW. Even better when talking about DDE-VE.How about the earlier mechanical VE6 from a Cummins on a 603/606?
It wouldn't be horribly difficult to machine a drive coupler adapter and lock up the chain timer.
But thats a different topic that already has a thread.....
Quote:I'd put common rail on 606, if I had the funds.Wouldn't we all. With the money it would cost for R&D, and you'd still have to live with the 15% IDI loss, it would be far cheaper to transplant an OM613/648.
There is one person with 330hp/560lbft in his CLK with an AMG OM612. The extra cylinder of the 3.2L engine should bring that figure up to 400hp.
http://www.mbworld.org/forums/clk-class-...oject.html
08-27-2010, 01:06 AM
#129
(08-26-2010, 05:10 PM)ForcedInduction How about the earlier mechanical VE6 from a Cummins on a 603/606?But then you're stuck with around 300 hp. Although I believe it could be made more drivable than same power with M pump.
It wouldn't be horribly difficult to machine a drive coupler adapter and lock up the chain timer.
Quote:With the money it would cost for R&D, and you'd still have to live with the 15% IDI loss..Don't care about IDI loss if the upside is more than 600 hp compared to about 400.
(08-26-2010, 05:10 PM)ForcedInduction How about the earlier mechanical VE6 from a Cummins on a 603/606?But then you're stuck with around 300 hp. Although I believe it could be made more drivable than same power with M pump.
It wouldn't be horribly difficult to machine a drive coupler adapter and lock up the chain timer.
Quote:With the money it would cost for R&D, and you'd still have to live with the 15% IDI loss..Don't care about IDI loss if the upside is more than 600 hp compared to about 400.
08-27-2010, 05:35 AM
#130
(08-27-2010, 01:06 AM)muuris But then you're stuck with around 300 hp.300hp is a hell of a lot better than 148/178hp. I know I'd be pretty happy to have that with better timing range.
ForcedInduction
08-27-2010, 05:35 AM
#130
(08-27-2010, 01:06 AM)muuris But then you're stuck with around 300 hp.300hp is a hell of a lot better than 148/178hp. I know I'd be pretty happy to have that with better timing range.
08-31-2010, 10:48 PM
#131
(Car is stock other than ALDA removal)
Wagon
1987 Mercedes 300TDT
Aug 31, 2010 11:17 PM
Acceleration
0-10 MPH: 0.87 sec
0-20 MPH: 1.86 sec
0-30 MPH: 3.25 sec
0-40 MPH: 5.00 sec
0-50 MPH: 7.35 sec
0-60 MPH: 10.48 sec
0-70 MPH: 14.42 sec
Elapsed Time
60': 2.67 sec @ 24.6 MPH
330': 7.29 sec @ 48.4 MPH
1/8 mi: 11.26 sec @ 61.5 MPH
1000': 14.73 sec @ 71.3 MPH
1/4 mi: 17.66 sec @ 76.7 MPH
Miscellaneous
Max Speed: 77.7 MPH
Max Acceleration: 0.55 G's
Peak Horsepower: 147 HP
Generated by Dynolicious
This post was last modified: 09-01-2010, 01:55 PM by jonbobshinigin.
jonbobshinigin
08-31-2010, 10:48 PM #131This is also in my Car Profile thread but here is my Dynolicious (iPhone App) results:
(Car is stock other than ALDA removal)
Wagon
1987 Mercedes 300TDT
Aug 31, 2010 11:17 PM
Acceleration
0-10 MPH: 0.87 sec
0-20 MPH: 1.86 sec
0-30 MPH: 3.25 sec
0-40 MPH: 5.00 sec
0-50 MPH: 7.35 sec
0-60 MPH: 10.48 sec
0-70 MPH: 14.42 sec
Elapsed Time
60': 2.67 sec @ 24.6 MPH
330': 7.29 sec @ 48.4 MPH
1/8 mi: 11.26 sec @ 61.5 MPH
1000': 14.73 sec @ 71.3 MPH
1/4 mi: 17.66 sec @ 76.7 MPH
Miscellaneous
Max Speed: 77.7 MPH
Max Acceleration: 0.55 G's
Peak Horsepower: 147 HP
Generated by Dynolicious
10-29-2010, 12:59 PM
#134
Since this turbo is larger and heavier, what sort of bracket do I need to support it other than the Manifold itself?
I am assuming that the stock oil lines are not going to line up, what is the process to remedy this?
jonbobshinigin
10-29-2010, 12:59 PM #134I now have the HX35 in my possession and would like to get it installed here soon. I am still unclear about a couple of things:
Since this turbo is larger and heavier, what sort of bracket do I need to support it other than the Manifold itself?
I am assuming that the stock oil lines are not going to line up, what is the process to remedy this?
10-29-2010, 01:39 PM
#135
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-29-2010, 01:39 PM #135I would make brackets like Rudolf made on his super turbo to his intake manifold as for the oil line's I put the whole turbo set up on my 240d and then measured the lines and had them made at a local pipe and hose shop!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-29-2010, 01:44 PM
#136
jonbobshinigin
10-29-2010, 01:44 PM #136I just looked through his project photos and did not see any bracketry for the turbo. Can you link me?
10-29-2010, 04:34 PM
#137
But I still think this would work for the turbo just fabricate different mounts
I would connect from the top of the turbo to the intake manifold!
Just make sure the joints have no plastic parts in them or it will melt!
I think some people put a bracket at the back of the turbo by the exhaust connection to the turbocharger to the block or engine mounts
Image from Rudolf
This post was last modified: 10-29-2010, 04:37 PM by willbhere4u.
Attached Files
Image(s)1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-29-2010, 04:34 PM #137Sorry I was referring to the ones on his intake manifold!
But I still think this would work for the turbo just fabricate different mounts
I would connect from the top of the turbo to the intake manifold!
Just make sure the joints have no plastic parts in them or it will melt!
I think some people put a bracket at the back of the turbo by the exhaust connection to the turbocharger to the block or engine mounts
Image from Rudolf
Attached Files
Image(s)1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-30-2010, 07:12 AM
#138
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
When I attach the HX 40 to my OM606, I'll be fabricating a couple of steel struts from the turbo down to the engine block where the mount is attached. That's a lot of mass hanging out there vibrating! Plus, it's supporting the front part of the exhaust system.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
10-30-2010, 07:52 AM
#139
ForcedInduction
10-30-2010, 07:52 AM
#139
For a tube manifold, thats a lot of weight. For a cast iron manifold, thats nothing.
10-30-2010, 03:33 PM
#140
jonbobshinigin
10-30-2010, 03:33 PM #140So Forced, are you suggesting I do not worry about it? Then maybe I can add something in there later if necessary? I am pretty sure that the stock turbo has some kind of support.
10-30-2010, 04:01 PM
#141
My iron manifold has been supporting the GT22 for the last 5 years plus the A/W intercooler for the last year without a problem.
Attached Files
Image(s)ForcedInduction
10-30-2010, 04:01 PM
#141
None that I can see in stock pictures of the 606. The euro-603 has the support bracket bolted to the manifold. Worst case, you can use an elongated flange stud and bolt a support there.
My iron manifold has been supporting the GT22 for the last 5 years plus the A/W intercooler for the last year without a problem.
Attached Files
Image(s)
10-30-2010, 05:31 PM
#142
I guess at this stage I am going to install the Turbo and run a 3" straight pipe and see what it does. I may throw on a cone filter as well. I am hoping that lag time and efficiency won't be too much worse than stock.
jonbobshinigin
10-30-2010, 05:31 PM #142That is good info Forced, thank you very much! I am trying to find a diagram of the OEM setup so I can see what the turbo oil lines look like so I ca get an idea as to what I need to have made. Can this be done with some sort of flexible stainless line?
I guess at this stage I am going to install the Turbo and run a 3" straight pipe and see what it does. I may throw on a cone filter as well. I am hoping that lag time and efficiency won't be too much worse than stock.
10-30-2010, 08:06 PM
#143
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-30-2010, 08:06 PM #143Yea it should be fine on my 240d turbo it has high pressure high temp rubber feed/ return lines the shop that made up my lines recommended them for cost over stainless braided lines!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-30-2010, 11:03 PM
#144
I use Parker Push-Lok 836 1/4" hose with -4 JIC fittings. No ugly clamps or hydraulic fitting press needed. Parker also has a Push-Lok banjo fitting that will fit right in place of the stock oil tube.
This post was last modified: 10-30-2010, 11:06 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
10-30-2010, 11:03 PM
#144
Yes, any hydraulic line will work fine if its rated for at least 250*f and 120psi working pressure.
I use Parker Push-Lok 836 1/4" hose with -4 JIC fittings. No ugly clamps or hydraulic fitting press needed. Parker also has a Push-Lok banjo fitting that will fit right in place of the stock oil tube.
10-30-2010, 11:18 PM
#145
This post was last modified: 10-30-2010, 11:19 PM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-30-2010, 11:18 PM #145that's what I have on the 240d turbo to an AN style fitting!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-30-2010, 11:29 PM
#146
Once the Holset is in place, I am assuming that I can weld a male end to a flange to adapt to the JIC fitting? I know I am asking alot! So essentially I could have each hose with female JICs on each end, and have male JICs welded on a bracket for where each connects to turbo and engine?
jonbobshinigin
10-30-2010, 11:29 PM #146Ok, that all sounds great. I am familiar with the push-lock hose and JIC fittings from a place I used to work that built fuel tanks and enclosures for the generator industry. I have not seen what the current oil lines look like but I am assuming they are metal pipes with flanges on each end. Is this correct?
Once the Holset is in place, I am assuming that I can weld a male end to a flange to adapt to the JIC fitting? I know I am asking alot! So essentially I could have each hose with female JICs on each end, and have male JICs welded on a bracket for where each connects to turbo and engine?
10-30-2010, 11:53 PM
#147
Holset uses an M12x1.5 feed. Parker has a fitting that works perfect for it.
ForcedInduction
10-30-2010, 11:53 PM
#147
I use a male-male coupler a foot before the turbo, that way if I change turbo types I don't have to remake the entire line, contort behind the filter housing or break the banjo fitting's crush washer seal.
Holset uses an M12x1.5 feed. Parker has a fitting that works perfect for it.
11-01-2010, 10:54 AM
#148
![[Image: 697070_lg.jpg]](http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/img/697070_lg.jpg)
jonbobshinigin
11-01-2010, 10:54 AM #148On my turbo, the inlet side seems like it would take something like what is shown in the picture. But on the outlet side it has the same setup, but without the holes necessary to mount an adapter like this. It also had and oring sitting in a groove. If it is not obvious, I have never removed or installed a turbo. As usual I am more researched then I am experienced. I plan on taking a look at the stock turbo setup closely soon.
01-08-2011, 04:47 PM
#149
It appears that I need an oil return flange:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-T3-T4...ccessories
That is for oil "out", what do I need for oil "in"?
jonbobshinigin
01-08-2011, 04:47 PM #149Bump...my car is down for a week waiting on Alternator so I may be doing this soon and I am getting together a parts list. Can someone re-read the last post and tell me what I need?
It appears that I need an oil return flange:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-T3-T4...ccessories
That is for oil "out", what do I need for oil "in"?
02-07-2011, 10:46 AM
#150
jonbobshinigin
02-07-2011, 10:46 AM #150While I am saving up for a Myna Build, I plan on turning my pump up to full load, and installing an Intercooler. I have decided to use the passenger side area in front of the wheel well. It may not me ideal, but it should keep my temps down a bit and allow me to get some data with Full Load and my HX35. I have not measured underneath there yet, but what are the minimum requirements I should look at? When I began looking I saw all sorts of sizes, thickness, and CFM. I don't mine spending a bit on a good one and I am fine with installing a fan on it if necessary. Any recommendations?
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