mercedes diesel powered ford crown victoria police cars
mercedes diesel powered ford crown victoria police cars
i have talked about this in many places on the internet.
first of all, how can one get around emisions?
if you claim to run the car on waste vegetable oil...does that work?
when you go for an emissions test, just run vegetable oil right? it should have a clean exhaust right?
i had an idea of a 4b cummins in a crown vic, or the isuzu 4b engine. but, they are loud! heavy! but good otherwise. and you can turn them up and make gobs of torque.
someone finally did this. you can search on youtube and now see a ford crown victoria police car with a 4b cummins. pretty sweet. but loud. i cant find ANY info on the car otherwise.
many people suggest a 6.2 or 6.5 gm diesel. they are cheap. not too heavy. and good on fuel. and can make decent power, not great, but decent. its a v8. similar power curve to a gas motor. etc... but i think they just arent a good motor really. i guess the flaws can be fixed using aftermarket stuff.
i am sure somoene would suggest a duramax. but, thats a lot of money. a lot of computer junk. and not really cost effect considering the cost of engine, comptuter junk. blah. out of the realm of reality. and yes, i have seen the cars with the duramax. great. but for rich people.
if you ask...why the crown vic? simple. safe. large. handling is decent. reliable. parts are everywhere. doesnt stand out in traffic. mechanics all over can work on them. easy to improve overall in every area. this is something that the mercedes car lacks. the mercedes is engineered better i know. but look at all the downsides such as climate control problems...cost of parts....lack of mechanics...lack of parts when travelling cross country. etc...
what engine could be placed in a crown vic that would AT LEAST equal the factory 4.6 gas v8?
NOT the new diesel engines. because, that would blow the cost reason for the build out of reason.
what engine would move the crown vic at an equal rate as the factory 4.6? i know it would take engine mods, but what mods?
should a person adapt to the ford factory transmission? the 4r70w? because its cheaper? make an adapter plate and buy an electronic control unit?
or use the mercedes trans? which handles more torque. does anyone make performance parts for a mercedes tranny? cost effectiveness?
most of all. the quietness of a mercedes diesel seems superior for a car. especially a sleeper. who wants to slip out the driveway and end up waking the wife, kids, and neighbors? haha!
could a person build an enclosed chamber around the engine in the engine bay to isolate sound? doesnt mercedes sometimes do this?
or maybe the sound wouldnt be too bad and it would be worth it?
i would like to avoid computer controlled engine if possible.....but if a person uses a computer controlled...does anyone make a controller that takes away the complication?
what about weight? does the crown vic weight too much? more than a mercedes?
a decently powerful crown vic with mercedes turbo diesel power and reliability would be RAD! and also burn wvo!
any thoughts?
i would like to take the simplicity of a late model ford crown victoria car and the reliability and mpg of a mercedes diesel and combine the two.
i have talked about this in many places on the internet.
first of all, how can one get around emisions?
if you claim to run the car on waste vegetable oil...does that work?
when you go for an emissions test, just run vegetable oil right? it should have a clean exhaust right?
i had an idea of a 4b cummins in a crown vic, or the isuzu 4b engine. but, they are loud! heavy! but good otherwise. and you can turn them up and make gobs of torque.
someone finally did this. you can search on youtube and now see a ford crown victoria police car with a 4b cummins. pretty sweet. but loud. i cant find ANY info on the car otherwise.
many people suggest a 6.2 or 6.5 gm diesel. they are cheap. not too heavy. and good on fuel. and can make decent power, not great, but decent. its a v8. similar power curve to a gas motor. etc... but i think they just arent a good motor really. i guess the flaws can be fixed using aftermarket stuff.
i am sure somoene would suggest a duramax. but, thats a lot of money. a lot of computer junk. and not really cost effect considering the cost of engine, comptuter junk. blah. out of the realm of reality. and yes, i have seen the cars with the duramax. great. but for rich people.
if you ask...why the crown vic? simple. safe. large. handling is decent. reliable. parts are everywhere. doesnt stand out in traffic. mechanics all over can work on them. easy to improve overall in every area. this is something that the mercedes car lacks. the mercedes is engineered better i know. but look at all the downsides such as climate control problems...cost of parts....lack of mechanics...lack of parts when travelling cross country. etc...
what engine could be placed in a crown vic that would AT LEAST equal the factory 4.6 gas v8?
NOT the new diesel engines. because, that would blow the cost reason for the build out of reason.
what engine would move the crown vic at an equal rate as the factory 4.6? i know it would take engine mods, but what mods?
should a person adapt to the ford factory transmission? the 4r70w? because its cheaper? make an adapter plate and buy an electronic control unit?
or use the mercedes trans? which handles more torque. does anyone make performance parts for a mercedes tranny? cost effectiveness?
most of all. the quietness of a mercedes diesel seems superior for a car. especially a sleeper. who wants to slip out the driveway and end up waking the wife, kids, and neighbors? haha!
could a person build an enclosed chamber around the engine in the engine bay to isolate sound? doesnt mercedes sometimes do this?
or maybe the sound wouldnt be too bad and it would be worth it?
i would like to avoid computer controlled engine if possible.....but if a person uses a computer controlled...does anyone make a controller that takes away the complication?
what about weight? does the crown vic weight too much? more than a mercedes?
a decently powerful crown vic with mercedes turbo diesel power and reliability would be RAD! and also burn wvo!
any thoughts?
(09-04-2010, 01:27 AM)tilldeath first of all, how can one get around emisions?Legally you can't unless the vehicle is over 25yo.
I guarantee, somebody will come along spouting some "but we don't have emissions tests/inspections in my county" BS. Lack of inspection doesn't change the law.
Quote:if you claim to run the car on waste vegetable oil...does that work?No. No vehicle can run on public roads with vegetable oil. Biodiesel is the only option.
Quote:it should have a clean exhaust right?No. VO is actually pretty dirty. That "frenchfry smell" is one sign of how poorly it burns. Its like a g@sser engine's emissions, just because you can't see the exhaust doesn't mean its better.
Quote:many people suggest a 6.2 or 6.5 gm diesel. they are cheap. not too heavy. and good on fuel. and can make decent power, not great, but decent.Not reliably or cheaply. A 617 with the free rack limiter removal makes more HP/L than a heavily modified 6.5L.
A much better alternative would be the 7.3L IDI-T. Mechanical, much more powerful and reliable.
Quote:why the crown vic? simple. safe. large. handling is decent. reliable. parts are everywhere. doesnt stand out in traffic. mechanics all over can work on them. easy to improve overall in every area.Not to mention its a genuine body-on-frame car.
Quote:what engine could be placed in a crown vic that would AT LEAST equal the factory 4.6 gas v8?A 460 with an RV cam would be one of my choices.
Quote:what engine would move the crown vic at an equal rate as the factory 4.6? i know it would take engine mods, but what mods?Nothing for long if you run VO through it!
If you rule out truck and electronic engines, MB's 603 is the only commonly available choice. Volvo's and BMW's 2.4L I-6 are an option, but won't make remotely enough power to compare with a 4.6 (same with a 617).
The Isuzu NPR 4HE1 would be a great option as well.
ForcedInduction
09-04-2010, 05:29 AM
#2
(09-04-2010, 01:27 AM)tilldeath first of all, how can one get around emisions?Legally you can't unless the vehicle is over 25yo.
I guarantee, somebody will come along spouting some "but we don't have emissions tests/inspections in my county" BS. Lack of inspection doesn't change the law.
Quote:if you claim to run the car on waste vegetable oil...does that work?No. No vehicle can run on public roads with vegetable oil. Biodiesel is the only option.
Quote:it should have a clean exhaust right?No. VO is actually pretty dirty. That "frenchfry smell" is one sign of how poorly it burns. Its like a g@sser engine's emissions, just because you can't see the exhaust doesn't mean its better.
Quote:many people suggest a 6.2 or 6.5 gm diesel. they are cheap. not too heavy. and good on fuel. and can make decent power, not great, but decent.Not reliably or cheaply. A 617 with the free rack limiter removal makes more HP/L than a heavily modified 6.5L.
A much better alternative would be the 7.3L IDI-T. Mechanical, much more powerful and reliable.
Quote:why the crown vic? simple. safe. large. handling is decent. reliable. parts are everywhere. doesnt stand out in traffic. mechanics all over can work on them. easy to improve overall in every area.Not to mention its a genuine body-on-frame car.
Quote:what engine could be placed in a crown vic that would AT LEAST equal the factory 4.6 gas v8?A 460 with an RV cam would be one of my choices.
Quote:what engine would move the crown vic at an equal rate as the factory 4.6? i know it would take engine mods, but what mods?Nothing for long if you run VO through it!
If you rule out truck and electronic engines, MB's 603 is the only commonly available choice. Volvo's and BMW's 2.4L I-6 are an option, but won't make remotely enough power to compare with a 4.6 (same with a 617).
The Isuzu NPR 4HE1 would be a great option as well.
well, a 460 isnt a good choice for me because of the gas mileage!
that is the reason i am looking for a viable diesel transplant.
wouldnt a 7.3 powerstroke engine be too heavy?
it sure would be nice if there was a kit to install diesel mercedes engines in different chassis. a wiring harness kit. that way a person could use the later model diesel engines from the newer more powerful mercedes and install them in different chassis. a company like painless wiring could do this. if the crown victoria is a 2000 model, then if i could bolt in a mercedes diesel engine from a 2002 model or whatever, i know i can meet the 2000 year model or later emissions.
yes, a county i have a residence in doesnt have emissions testing. but might one day......
thanks for response!
well, a 460 isnt a good choice for me because of the gas mileage!
that is the reason i am looking for a viable diesel transplant.
wouldnt a 7.3 powerstroke engine be too heavy?
it sure would be nice if there was a kit to install diesel mercedes engines in different chassis. a wiring harness kit. that way a person could use the later model diesel engines from the newer more powerful mercedes and install them in different chassis. a company like painless wiring could do this. if the crown victoria is a 2000 model, then if i could bolt in a mercedes diesel engine from a 2002 model or whatever, i know i can meet the 2000 year model or later emissions.
yes, a county i have a residence in doesnt have emissions testing. but might one day......
There are some interesting VO debates in the ALT fuel section, here is one-
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/stra...t-672.html
Post your VO questions over there and we can all begin yelling at eachother!
Having said that, I totally agree with Forced on the 7.3, or even a 6.9. One, its a great powerplant in all its versions. Two, its a ford powerplant, so lots of stuff will be common on the swap electronically and physically, or at least easier to figure out. Three, there are LOTS of those engines around, locally here I saw a engine tranny combo for 200 dollars, so getting the engine would be a cinch.
I saw a 99 powerstroke that had been dropped into an air ride lincoln towncar once, was a great swap. Im pretty sure you would be able to beef up the suspension in the crown vic if you had a weight problem too fairly easily.
As far as getting around emissions, of course that is a state by state issue, you need to do some research on the GA DMV and see what they say about repowering a vehicle. I had read some stuff somewhere where you can actually do that depending on the area and have the vehicle inspected with the new drivetrain, but of course this is hearsay, so you should ask them what the laws are where you are. At one point, on an old vehicle, it was as simple as putting in diesel instead of gas when registering it when I lived in RI. That was 10 years or more then. I learned this because someone had put in gasoline on a title for a VW I had, and i retitled back to diesel in about 10 minutes.
this is a really interesting site to check out, these guys are professionally doing diesel conversions on vehicles as new as 2010. Last I checked, they were doing it legally, but of course, its the state laws that matter. http://dieseltoyz.com/
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
tildeath- The VO topic is a charged one here, and more so on other forums. I would caution you to take nothing as gospel to responses to your VO questions. For instance, I disagree with almost everything Forced has said regarding VO, but there is no point in arguing about it in relation to your swap idea, the die is cast for both sides as they say, and would only serve to distract the thread from the core idea.
There are some interesting VO debates in the ALT fuel section, here is one-
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/stra...t-672.html
Post your VO questions over there and we can all begin yelling at eachother!
Having said that, I totally agree with Forced on the 7.3, or even a 6.9. One, its a great powerplant in all its versions. Two, its a ford powerplant, so lots of stuff will be common on the swap electronically and physically, or at least easier to figure out. Three, there are LOTS of those engines around, locally here I saw a engine tranny combo for 200 dollars, so getting the engine would be a cinch.
I saw a 99 powerstroke that had been dropped into an air ride lincoln towncar once, was a great swap. Im pretty sure you would be able to beef up the suspension in the crown vic if you had a weight problem too fairly easily.
As far as getting around emissions, of course that is a state by state issue, you need to do some research on the GA DMV and see what they say about repowering a vehicle. I had read some stuff somewhere where you can actually do that depending on the area and have the vehicle inspected with the new drivetrain, but of course this is hearsay, so you should ask them what the laws are where you are. At one point, on an old vehicle, it was as simple as putting in diesel instead of gas when registering it when I lived in RI. That was 10 years or more then. I learned this because someone had put in gasoline on a title for a VW I had, and i retitled back to diesel in about 10 minutes.
this is a really interesting site to check out, these guys are professionally doing diesel conversions on vehicles as new as 2010. Last I checked, they were doing it legally, but of course, its the state laws that matter. http://dieseltoyz.com/
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
i should have been very very careful in my words..statements..and the like.
even though i typed that really fast...and i didnt explain myself very clearly...i kinda thought that it was kinda understandable...
as far as safety. well. let me explain. the crash tests...even like that one pictured about the f150.....doesnt explain every kind of wreck. first of all. put yourself in a GEO....and let someone else get in an f150. both of you drive head on into an impact at 65 mph each. which one would have the greatest chance of survival?
as far as vegetable oil. i guess i am lacking education on the topic. i know of a few people that use it and they have never complained? only about companies getting all the waste oil from all the restaurants and then selling it back to the people. lol.
as far as harsh corrections on every detail..... why???
are we friends on here? or...are we lawyers picking for any kind of flaw in a statement or question?
i do appreciate the responses though. and maybe they werent meant in an "attack" kind of way....and thats what i hope.
but, the responses probably are accurate in what was said. and i do appreciate the comments.
wow. i guess i have been "SET" straight. hahaha.
i should have been very very careful in my words..statements..and the like.
even though i typed that really fast...and i didnt explain myself very clearly...i kinda thought that it was kinda understandable...
as far as safety. well. let me explain. the crash tests...even like that one pictured about the f150.....doesnt explain every kind of wreck. first of all. put yourself in a GEO....and let someone else get in an f150. both of you drive head on into an impact at 65 mph each. which one would have the greatest chance of survival?
as far as vegetable oil. i guess i am lacking education on the topic. i know of a few people that use it and they have never complained? only about companies getting all the waste oil from all the restaurants and then selling it back to the people. lol.
as far as harsh corrections on every detail..... why???
are we friends on here? or...are we lawyers picking for any kind of flaw in a statement or question?
i do appreciate the responses though. and maybe they werent meant in an "attack" kind of way....and thats what i hope.
but, the responses probably are accurate in what was said. and i do appreciate the comments.
(09-04-2010, 01:05 PM)tilldeath well, a 460 isnt a good choice for me because of the gas mileage!I agree, but it has gobs of torque!
Quote:wouldnt a 7.3 powerstroke engine be too heavy?Any diesel with power/performance comparable to the 4.6 will be heavy.
A Ford 4.6 weights about 520lbs (aluminum heads). An OM617 longblock weighs 563lbs.
Quote:it sure would be nice if there was a kit to install diesel mercedes engines in different chassis. a wiring harness kit.There is next to nothing to wire. You've got glowplugs, starter and alternator field. The only ones with an actual harness are 1996-1999 computerized engines, and that only adds 1 cable from the injection pump. Making an 05-current CDI work would be a sizable task.
Quote:if the crown victoria is a 2000 model, then if i could bolt in a mercedes diesel engine from a 2002 model or whatever, i know i can meet the 2000 year model or later emissions. yes, a county i have a residence in doesnt have emissions testing. but might one day......It still wouldn't be a "legal" swap since there was never a comparable configuration.
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/...switch.pdf
"While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. State or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally regulated parties into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law. "
Quote:put yourself in a GEO....and let someone else get in an f150. both of you drive head on into an impact at 65 mph each. which one would have the greatest chance of survival?With that much energy at play, most likely neither.
Quote:as far as harsh corrections on every detail..... why???Why not?
ForcedInduction
09-05-2010, 02:36 AM
#7
(09-04-2010, 01:05 PM)tilldeath well, a 460 isnt a good choice for me because of the gas mileage!I agree, but it has gobs of torque!
Quote:wouldnt a 7.3 powerstroke engine be too heavy?Any diesel with power/performance comparable to the 4.6 will be heavy.
A Ford 4.6 weights about 520lbs (aluminum heads). An OM617 longblock weighs 563lbs.
Quote:it sure would be nice if there was a kit to install diesel mercedes engines in different chassis. a wiring harness kit.There is next to nothing to wire. You've got glowplugs, starter and alternator field. The only ones with an actual harness are 1996-1999 computerized engines, and that only adds 1 cable from the injection pump. Making an 05-current CDI work would be a sizable task.
Quote:if the crown victoria is a 2000 model, then if i could bolt in a mercedes diesel engine from a 2002 model or whatever, i know i can meet the 2000 year model or later emissions. yes, a county i have a residence in doesnt have emissions testing. but might one day......It still wouldn't be a "legal" swap since there was never a comparable configuration.
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/...switch.pdf
"While EPA does not require these programs to fail engine switched vehicles which are not in compliance with federal policy, the Agency does strongly recommend that these programs set their requirements so as to be consistent with the federal law. State or local programs which pass illegally engine switched vehicles may mislead federally regulated parties into believing that engine switching is allowed by federal law. "
Quote:put yourself in a GEO....and let someone else get in an f150. both of you drive head on into an impact at 65 mph each. which one would have the greatest chance of survival?With that much energy at play, most likely neither.
Quote:as far as harsh corrections on every detail..... why???Why not?
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
05-11-2011, 10:52 AM #939MPG - Cummins 4BT with a VE pump + modifications.
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
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