OM606.962+holset HE351VE VGT+Myna Pump
OM606.962+holset HE351VE VGT+Myna Pump
01-13-2010, 04:33 PM
#1
I started to read your forum 3 months ago and i should say that it's fantastic!!!
As i have in my mind that conversion i have also many questions who i'm looking for the answers,i hope that you help me....
Three days ago i found my new engine!!Was on a E-class of 1999,it seems in good condition(tomorrow i ll upload image and video)!!
I decided to put a holset 351 vgt for best spool and a myna pump,also i should put an intercooler, new exhaust manifolds and a transmission!!!
These are the questionsthat i have:
1)The turbine actuator can be done with wastegate or electronic???which is the best way to controll it?Please give details and fotos if it's possible!
2)What type of intercooler do you recomend me??air to air/water to air/water-alcohol injection??Greece is a hot country!I need also the dimensions...
3)Which transmission is the strongest??auto or manual??which model?
4)Where i can buy an exhaust manifold for the holset351?
thanks in advance!!!!
Hello to everyone!!!I am a Greek guy and i have a mercedes G-wagen in which i ll do the conversion.
I started to read your forum 3 months ago and i should say that it's fantastic!!!
As i have in my mind that conversion i have also many questions who i'm looking for the answers,i hope that you help me....
Three days ago i found my new engine!!Was on a E-class of 1999,it seems in good condition(tomorrow i ll upload image and video)!!
I decided to put a holset 351 vgt for best spool and a myna pump,also i should put an intercooler, new exhaust manifolds and a transmission!!!
These are the questionsthat i have:
1)The turbine actuator can be done with wastegate or electronic???which is the best way to controll it?Please give details and fotos if it's possible!
2)What type of intercooler do you recomend me??air to air/water to air/water-alcohol injection??Greece is a hot country!I need also the dimensions...
3)Which transmission is the strongest??auto or manual??which model?
4)Where i can buy an exhaust manifold for the holset351?
thanks in advance!!!!
01-13-2010, 05:05 PM
#2
ad 2) I can send you photos of a water/air IC (AMG off a 600 bi-turbo) I will use after long research for good quality and small dimensions.
ad 4) I welded an adapter plate directly to the turbo after cutting away the turbo's original flange
Tom (Germany)
Hi,
ad 2) I can send you photos of a water/air IC (AMG off a 600 bi-turbo) I will use after long research for good quality and small dimensions.
ad 4) I welded an adapter plate directly to the turbo after cutting away the turbo's original flange
Tom (Germany)
01-14-2010, 08:40 AM
#4
Will not work with only a wastegate (pressure) actuator mounted to turbo. That way will always be on high boost and even higher exhaust manifold pressure on part throttle --> bad fuel economy, high cylinder head temp load. Needs at least some system to open VGT partially and therefore ease exhaust restrictions on part-throttle. This can be quite easily done by a 2-way actuator or two separate actuators (pressure and vacuum). A microswitch under the throttle pedal to operate a magnetic valve, which in turn controls the vacuum to the actuator (to open VGT on part throttle, and release when accelerator pushed down).
One could also control it by installing only a vacuum actuator and then control the vacuum via MGV/contorl system, as it is done in many factory VNT vehicles.
I'm putting a 351 in my 606. It will be controlled by a twin-port actuator. MGVs for VGT and other devices are controlled by a PIC, which also provides data logging. Earlier I had GT37v with electric control, but I'll try to deal with the VGT as mechanically as possible, for faster response. Actuator operating point will be set by added external spring and pressure actuator (to set the pressure on the other side of the actuator). So there will be vacuum or a set pressure on the other side of the actuator, and intake/exhaust manifold pressure on the other. In addition, I'll use a wastegate to control boost when VGT can't travel no more and boost keeps climbing up (engine revs 6500 and the turbine exducer is only 60mm)..
Stock electric actuator is a bus device, I reckon you can't do anything with it.
Will not work with only a wastegate (pressure) actuator mounted to turbo. That way will always be on high boost and even higher exhaust manifold pressure on part throttle --> bad fuel economy, high cylinder head temp load. Needs at least some system to open VGT partially and therefore ease exhaust restrictions on part-throttle. This can be quite easily done by a 2-way actuator or two separate actuators (pressure and vacuum). A microswitch under the throttle pedal to operate a magnetic valve, which in turn controls the vacuum to the actuator (to open VGT on part throttle, and release when accelerator pushed down).
One could also control it by installing only a vacuum actuator and then control the vacuum via MGV/contorl system, as it is done in many factory VNT vehicles.
I'm putting a 351 in my 606. It will be controlled by a twin-port actuator. MGVs for VGT and other devices are controlled by a PIC, which also provides data logging. Earlier I had GT37v with electric control, but I'll try to deal with the VGT as mechanically as possible, for faster response. Actuator operating point will be set by added external spring and pressure actuator (to set the pressure on the other side of the actuator). So there will be vacuum or a set pressure on the other side of the actuator, and intake/exhaust manifold pressure on the other. In addition, I'll use a wastegate to control boost when VGT can't travel no more and boost keeps climbing up (engine revs 6500 and the turbine exducer is only 60mm)..
01-14-2010, 09:58 AM
#5
Could you put some fotos if you have....?
What is twin-port actuator?
what is mgv and pic?
does your project is finished?
Soory for all these questions but am new at all these modifications!!!
This post was last modified: 01-14-2010, 10:01 AM by gvp.
01-14-2010, 01:01 PM
#6
(01-14-2010, 09:58 AM)gvp I don't understand many things!!
Could you put some fotos if you have....?
What is twin-port actuator?
what is mgv and pic?
does your project is finished?
Soory for all these questions but am new at all these modifications!!!
No offense, but if you're starting with mods, better go with a conventional turbo first and then upgrade to a VGT/VNT.
MGV = electromagnetic valve
PIC = programmable controller
Some pics:
-one port wastegate actuator
-twin-port actuator
-making manifold for VGT
-old setup
-screenshot of an early datalog (red=exhaust manifold pressure, green=boost, dark red=pwm out[scale 0-255], grey=accelerator position)
(01-14-2010, 09:58 AM)gvp I don't understand many things!!
Could you put some fotos if you have....?
What is twin-port actuator?
what is mgv and pic?
does your project is finished?
Soory for all these questions but am new at all these modifications!!!
No offense, but if you're starting with mods, better go with a conventional turbo first and then upgrade to a VGT/VNT.
MGV = electromagnetic valve
PIC = programmable controller
Some pics:
-one port wastegate actuator
-twin-port actuator
-making manifold for VGT
-old setup
-screenshot of an early datalog (red=exhaust manifold pressure, green=boost, dark red=pwm out[scale 0-255], grey=accelerator position)
01-14-2010, 02:31 PM
#7
(01-14-2010, 08:40 AM)muuris Earlier I had GT37v with electric control, but I'll try to deal with the VGT as mechanically as possible, for faster response. Actuator operating point will be set by added external spring and pressure actuator (to set the pressure on the other side of the actuator). So there will be vacuum or a set pressure on the other side of the actuator, and intake/exhaust manifold pressure on the other. In addition, I'll use a wastegate to control boost when VGT can't travel no more and boost keeps climbing up (engine revs 6500 and the turbine exducer is only 60mm)..
Hi Why do you change the GT37V for a HE351VE ?. when did the GT37V startet to boost RPM ?
What boost did it made at 2000 RPM bar ?
and 2500 RPM bar ?
and 3000 RPM bar ?
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(01-14-2010, 08:40 AM)muuris Earlier I had GT37v with electric control, but I'll try to deal with the VGT as mechanically as possible, for faster response. Actuator operating point will be set by added external spring and pressure actuator (to set the pressure on the other side of the actuator). So there will be vacuum or a set pressure on the other side of the actuator, and intake/exhaust manifold pressure on the other. In addition, I'll use a wastegate to control boost when VGT can't travel no more and boost keeps climbing up (engine revs 6500 and the turbine exducer is only 60mm)..
Hi Why do you change the GT37V for a HE351VE ?. when did the GT37V startet to boost RPM ?
What boost did it made at 2000 RPM bar ?
and 2500 RPM bar ?
and 3000 RPM bar ?
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
01-14-2010, 03:12 PM
#8
Quote:No offense, but if you're starting with mods, better go with a conventional turbo first and then upgrade to a VGT/VNT.
MGV = electromagnetic valve
PIC = programmable controller
Some pics:
-one port wastegate actuator
-twin-port actuator
-making manifold for VGT
-old setup
-screenshot of an early datalog (red=exhaust manifold pressure, green=boost, dark red=pwm out[scale 0-255], grey=accelerator position)
I believe that's better to make the best conversion now,because if not i ll spent much money without the best result that i have with the holset he351ve!So i prefer to put that turbine!!!
All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
Quote:No offense, but if you're starting with mods, better go with a conventional turbo first and then upgrade to a VGT/VNT.
MGV = electromagnetic valve
PIC = programmable controller
Some pics:
-one port wastegate actuator
-twin-port actuator
-making manifold for VGT
-old setup
-screenshot of an early datalog (red=exhaust manifold pressure, green=boost, dark red=pwm out[scale 0-255], grey=accelerator position)
I believe that's better to make the best conversion now,because if not i ll spent much money without the best result that i have with the holset he351ve!So i prefer to put that turbine!!!
All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
01-15-2010, 10:04 AM
#9
My car on the dyno:
2000rpm 0,1bar boost and 0,7bar emp
2500rpm 0,3bar boost and 1,3bar emp
3000rpm 0,7bar boost and 1,7bar emp
3500rpm 1,2bar boost and 2,1bar emp
4000rpm 1,5bar boost and 2,3bar emp
5000rpm 1,8bar boost and 2,6bar emp
On the road it performed a bit better, or quite a bit better with HEAVY smoking. But doesn't fit to my style, so kept the light smoking settings. Because the turbine housing is so big, you have to try to compensate it with keeping the vanes more closed. That leads to high exhaust manifold pressure. Even when reached 1,7bar of boost, you couldn't open vanes more than 50% or the emp as well as boost dropped down.
I have built 722.3 automatic, but with stock stall speed (~2000rpm). It didn't build even 1bar emp when applied the brake and welded the accelerator on the floor, so you see the problem. On a smaller VNT you can get like 2-3bar of emp with only applying the throttle in neutral, with no load (vanes closed). After 2500 you could get even 4bar of emp, but it didn't help, because the vanes were so closed that it really restricted the exhaust flow and after 2,5bar of emp boost actually started to decrease..
(01-14-2010, 03:12 PM)gvp All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
I believe it will work like that, after fine-tuned. A friend of mine had a similar system in his car (not MB and not Holset, but still). These thoughts are also based on 8000km of experiences tuning the GT37v for my car. Of course I can always go to a single vacuum actuator and control the vacuum amount with a MGV.. but the more simple, the better. Can't cut corners, though.
GT37v (from a 05 Duramax 6,6L) isn't a good turbo for these small engines. I knew from the beginning that the compressor (ind 64mm) and exhaust (exd 67mm) were a bit too large, but the main problem is that the turbine housing displacement is huge. I sent it into a shop, but I wasn't satisfied with the shrinking operation. I know one OM603 + He351V in Finland and it works better than mine even though the owner hasn't put enough time for controlling it and it's only had a non-built N/A 300d gearbox so far.
My car on the dyno:
2000rpm 0,1bar boost and 0,7bar emp
2500rpm 0,3bar boost and 1,3bar emp
3000rpm 0,7bar boost and 1,7bar emp
3500rpm 1,2bar boost and 2,1bar emp
4000rpm 1,5bar boost and 2,3bar emp
5000rpm 1,8bar boost and 2,6bar emp
On the road it performed a bit better, or quite a bit better with HEAVY smoking. But doesn't fit to my style, so kept the light smoking settings. Because the turbine housing is so big, you have to try to compensate it with keeping the vanes more closed. That leads to high exhaust manifold pressure. Even when reached 1,7bar of boost, you couldn't open vanes more than 50% or the emp as well as boost dropped down.
I have built 722.3 automatic, but with stock stall speed (~2000rpm). It didn't build even 1bar emp when applied the brake and welded the accelerator on the floor, so you see the problem. On a smaller VNT you can get like 2-3bar of emp with only applying the throttle in neutral, with no load (vanes closed). After 2500 you could get even 4bar of emp, but it didn't help, because the vanes were so closed that it really restricted the exhaust flow and after 2,5bar of emp boost actually started to decrease..
(01-14-2010, 03:12 PM)gvp All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
I believe it will work like that, after fine-tuned. A friend of mine had a similar system in his car (not MB and not Holset, but still). These thoughts are also based on 8000km of experiences tuning the GT37v for my car. Of course I can always go to a single vacuum actuator and control the vacuum amount with a MGV.. but the more simple, the better. Can't cut corners, though.
01-15-2010, 01:48 PM
#10
(01-14-2010, 03:12 PM)gvp All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
I believe it will work like that, after fine-tuned. A friend of mine had a similar system in his car (not MB and not Holset, but still). These thoughts are also based on 8000km of experiences tuning the GT37v for my car. Of course I can always go to a single vacuum actuator and control the vacuum amount with a MGV.. but the more simple, the better. Can't cut corners, though.
[/quote]
I am confused
If there is the easy way to controll the turbo with a single vacuum actuator and a MGV,why don't use it??does it works?I was thinking to put as a transmission one from slk/clk 230 kompressor because has 6 speeds,do you believe that can hold the power???I know that the best manual is the getrag w210 2.3 16v but it's too short ratio?(hasn't overdrive)!!
Here some pictures of my engine:
[img]
![[Image: dsc0014k.jpg]](http://img177.imageshack.us/i/dsc0014k.jpg/)
[/img][img]
![[Image: dsc0015ng.jpg]](http://img509.imageshack.us/i/dsc0015ng.jpg/)
[/img](01-14-2010, 03:12 PM)gvp All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
I believe it will work like that, after fine-tuned. A friend of mine had a similar system in his car (not MB and not Holset, but still). These thoughts are also based on 8000km of experiences tuning the GT37v for my car. Of course I can always go to a single vacuum actuator and control the vacuum amount with a MGV.. but the more simple, the better. Can't cut corners, though.
[/quote]
I am confused
If there is the easy way to controll the turbo with a single vacuum actuator and a MGV,why don't use it??does it works?I was thinking to put as a transmission one from slk/clk 230 kompressor because has 6 speeds,do you believe that can hold the power???I know that the best manual is the getrag w210 2.3 16v but it's too short ratio?(hasn't overdrive)!!
Here some pictures of my engine:
[img]
[/img][img]
[/img]I don't know what i've done and posted 2 times....
[/align]
This post was last modified: 01-15-2010, 01:51 PM by gvp.
(01-14-2010, 03:12 PM)gvp All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
I believe it will work like that, after fine-tuned. A friend of mine had a similar system in his car (not MB and not Holset, but still). These thoughts are also based on 8000km of experiences tuning the GT37v for my car. Of course I can always go to a single vacuum actuator and control the vacuum amount with a MGV.. but the more simple, the better. Can't cut corners, though.
[/quote]
I am confused
If there is the easy way to controll the turbo with a single vacuum actuator and a MGV,why don't use it??does it works?I was thinking to put as a transmission one from slk/clk 230 kompressor because has 6 speeds,do you believe that can hold the power???I know that the best manual is the getrag w210 2.3 16v but it's too short ratio?(hasn't overdrive)!!
Here some pictures of my engine:
[img]
[/img][img]
[/img](01-14-2010, 03:12 PM)gvp All that conversion that you were talking about (to put the holset 351) are you sure that will work like that or you ll try??
I believe it will work like that, after fine-tuned. A friend of mine had a similar system in his car (not MB and not Holset, but still). These thoughts are also based on 8000km of experiences tuning the GT37v for my car. Of course I can always go to a single vacuum actuator and control the vacuum amount with a MGV.. but the more simple, the better. Can't cut corners, though.
[/quote]
I am confused
If there is the easy way to controll the turbo with a single vacuum actuator and a MGV,why don't use it??does it works?I was thinking to put as a transmission one from slk/clk 230 kompressor because has 6 speeds,do you believe that can hold the power???I know that the best manual is the getrag w210 2.3 16v but it's too short ratio?(hasn't overdrive)!!
Here some pictures of my engine:
[img]
[/img][img]
[/img]I don't know what i've done and posted 2 times....
[/align]
01-16-2010, 03:39 AM
#11
(01-15-2010, 01:48 PM)gvp I am confused
It's NOT the easy way. If done that way, I constantly have to adjust vacuum amount (PWM to MGV) by the software, and because of only vacuum actuator, there will be some "lag" in the system response. Say you floor the throttle, software closes the vanes almost fully and EMP goes way up and boost starts to go up. Then software starts to open the vanes to reduce EMP but still maintaining the desired boost. As the vacuum actuator is a bit slow, EMPs peak in the process.
The good thing about this is that its behaviour is entirely programmable. But as I've already tried that, I want to go for a solution as simple as possible. That is my backup plan, IF I won't get the system working nicely with the simple thing.
When using a simple mechanical pressure actuator to open the vanes (by EMP), it should remain constant all the time. Use the twin-port actuator instead of single, and you can set the desired level using counter-pressure (set by pressure regulator) to make the actuator stay still until certain EMP level. And vacuum instead of pressure there --> vanes open on part throttle.
Why not just use a harder spring on the actuator? Then the pressure range between fully closed and fully open vanes would be way too big. Say it starts to open at 0,5bar (where we want to hold them closed all the way) and is fully open at 2,5bar. A long, weak spring with much preload would do the job, but there's usually no room for it.
This is why I said you should go for conventional turbo first. You think VGT/VNT as a conventional wastegate, which is basically ON/OFF, because you only regulate boost. Ok boost - wastegate closed. Too much boost - wastegate open. High EMPs aren't usually a big problem with these.
On a variable geometry turbo, you have to constantly adjust the vanes, because you adjust both boost and exhaust manifold pressure (the flow on the exhaust side). With bad tuning, it can easily peak 3-4x the EMP than a wastegated turbo. I can tell you that exhaust valves start to float on OM606 with 4bar EMP..
This post was last modified: 01-16-2010, 06:38 PM by muuris.
(01-15-2010, 01:48 PM)gvp I am confused
It's NOT the easy way. If done that way, I constantly have to adjust vacuum amount (PWM to MGV) by the software, and because of only vacuum actuator, there will be some "lag" in the system response. Say you floor the throttle, software closes the vanes almost fully and EMP goes way up and boost starts to go up. Then software starts to open the vanes to reduce EMP but still maintaining the desired boost. As the vacuum actuator is a bit slow, EMPs peak in the process.
The good thing about this is that its behaviour is entirely programmable. But as I've already tried that, I want to go for a solution as simple as possible. That is my backup plan, IF I won't get the system working nicely with the simple thing.
When using a simple mechanical pressure actuator to open the vanes (by EMP), it should remain constant all the time. Use the twin-port actuator instead of single, and you can set the desired level using counter-pressure (set by pressure regulator) to make the actuator stay still until certain EMP level. And vacuum instead of pressure there --> vanes open on part throttle.
Why not just use a harder spring on the actuator? Then the pressure range between fully closed and fully open vanes would be way too big. Say it starts to open at 0,5bar (where we want to hold them closed all the way) and is fully open at 2,5bar. A long, weak spring with much preload would do the job, but there's usually no room for it.
This is why I said you should go for conventional turbo first. You think VGT/VNT as a conventional wastegate, which is basically ON/OFF, because you only regulate boost. Ok boost - wastegate closed. Too much boost - wastegate open. High EMPs aren't usually a big problem with these.
On a variable geometry turbo, you have to constantly adjust the vanes, because you adjust both boost and exhaust manifold pressure (the flow on the exhaust side). With bad tuning, it can easily peak 3-4x the EMP than a wastegated turbo. I can tell you that exhaust valves start to float on OM606 with 4bar EMP..
01-16-2010, 08:32 AM
#12
It's too difficult for me to try all these,so i'll put a conventional turbo first and then ll see!!I have also a thought to build a twin turbo with two different turbines(small and big)!!!I need the low rpm boost specially at off road!!!
Do you believe that is easiest way?do i have the results that i expect???
It's too difficult for me to try all these,so i'll put a conventional turbo first and then ll see!!I have also a thought to build a twin turbo with two different turbines(small and big)!!!I need the low rpm boost specially at off road!!!
Do you believe that is easiest way?do i have the results that i expect???
!!!I was thinking to put a small turbo for spooling at low rpm and then a bigger for high rpm...!!!It's difficult that???Does it works???
01-16-2010, 02:47 PM
#15
535d
compound setup
Just put a HX35 or similar in your OM606, you'll get around 300hp with some low-end grunt also.
This post was last modified: 01-16-2010, 02:49 PM by muuris.
01-16-2010, 03:08 PM
#16
The holset Hx35 is my last chance,but i think that i ll arrive at 350HP?!?
What transmission do you believe is the best??I prefer a manual but with overdrive like slk/clk 6 speed!!!
What is your opinion about a water intercooler??I better than the air to air or not??
The compound turbo system seems easy,but i don't know....
The holset Hx35 is my last chance,but i think that i ll arrive at 350HP?!?
What transmission do you believe is the best??I prefer a manual but with overdrive like slk/clk 6 speed!!!
What is your opinion about a water intercooler??I better than the air to air or not??
01-16-2010, 03:19 PM
#17
HX35 isn't enough for 350hp.
Don't know about strong transmissions for G-wagen.
I wouldn't put a water IC. The IC itself is smaller than air to air, but it also needs it's own water pump and a water cooler in the front.
Compound is definitely not easy, since it's critical to pick just the correct size turbos. Jeemu tried that on OM605.
HX35 isn't enough for 350hp.
Don't know about strong transmissions for G-wagen.
I wouldn't put a water IC. The IC itself is smaller than air to air, but it also needs it's own water pump and a water cooler in the front.
01-16-2010, 05:35 PM
#18
These are the transmission of G-wagen!!!As you will se the most powerfull engines they had the 722.6 auto....so?
I need the last gear overdrive..!!
This post was last modified: 01-16-2010, 05:50 PM by gvp.
01-16-2010, 05:59 PM
#19
I don't know about the gearbox. It's not RWD so I don't know how the center diff bolts on the gearbox etc. If you're ready to make mods, then put Tremec or a big Getrag.
This post was last modified: 01-16-2010, 06:07 PM by muuris.
Well, Jeemu has posted only a few pics on this forum. Anyway, it didn't work as expected. See this.
I don't know about the gearbox. It's not RWD so I don't know how the center diff bolts on the gearbox etc. If you're ready to make mods, then put Tremec or a big Getrag.
01-16-2010, 06:37 PM
#20
Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
There is picks for that my compound setup
http://kuvablogi.com/blog/6520/14/
I think its easier you go at one turbo. Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted.
Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
There is picks for that my compound setup
http://kuvablogi.com/blog/6520/14/
I think its easier you go at one turbo. Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
01-16-2010, 06:52 PM
#21
Quote:If you're ready to make mods, then put Tremec or a big Getrag
Could you tell me models??
Quote:I think its easier you go at one turbo. Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Finally i ll try that turbine!!!What are the results that i ll have with that turbine and a myna pump???HP/NM-rpm??in which exactly rpm???
You are very helpfull both of you...thanks a lot!!!
This post was last modified: 01-16-2010, 06:53 PM by gvp.
Quote:If you're ready to make mods, then put Tremec or a big Getrag
Could you tell me models??
Quote:I think its easier you go at one turbo. Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Finally i ll try that turbine!!!What are the results that i ll have with that turbine and a myna pump???HP/NM-rpm??in which exactly rpm???
You are very helpfull both of you...thanks a lot!!!
01-16-2010, 07:27 PM
#23
(01-16-2010, 06:52 PM)gvp Finally i ll try that turbine!!!What are the results that i ll have with that turbine and a myna pump???HP/NM-rpm??in which exactly rpm???Anybody cant tell you that. It depends too many things.
You are very helpfull both of you...thanks a lot!!!
01-17-2010, 09:55 AM
#25
(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted. Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
Was the back pressure relative to atmospheric? If so, it will seem like really high back pressure, but, if you compare it to the inlet pressure, the back pressure might not be as bad as initially thought... Or was it still really high measuring that way?
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted. Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
Was the back pressure relative to atmospheric? If so, it will seem like really high back pressure, but, if you compare it to the inlet pressure, the back pressure might not be as bad as initially thought... Or was it still really high measuring that way?
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
01-17-2010, 11:04 AM
#26
(01-17-2010, 07:17 AM)gvp jeemu which transmission do you have???datails please!!!MB 5 speed. It was 260e Ambulance
(01-17-2010, 09:55 AM)TymbrymiBack bressure was higher than boost. i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted. Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
Was the back pressure relative to atmospheric? If so, it will seem like really high back pressure, but, if you compare it to the inlet pressure, the back pressure might not be as bad as initially thought... Or was it still really high measuring that way?
and back bressure was 2,5- over 4bar.
This post was last modified: 01-17-2010, 11:08 AM by jeemu.
(01-17-2010, 07:17 AM)gvp jeemu which transmission do you have???datails please!!!MB 5 speed. It was 260e Ambulance
(01-17-2010, 09:55 AM)TymbrymiBack bressure was higher than boost. i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted. Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
Was the back pressure relative to atmospheric? If so, it will seem like really high back pressure, but, if you compare it to the inlet pressure, the back pressure might not be as bad as initially thought... Or was it still really high measuring that way?
and back bressure was 2,5- over 4bar.
01-17-2010, 12:37 PM
#28
(01-17-2010, 11:34 AM)gvpI have now 662nm and transmission have still all gearsQuote:MB 5 speed. It was 260e Ambulance
The code of that transmission is 717.432 (GL 76/27) but holds only 270NMDid you reinforced it??
Didint reinforced it. Clutch axle i change because this was short axle and my flywheel is made long axle.
(01-17-2010, 11:34 AM)gvpI have now 662nm and transmission have still all gearsQuote:MB 5 speed. It was 260e Ambulance
The code of that transmission is 717.432 (GL 76/27) but holds only 270NM
Didint reinforced it. Clutch axle i change because this was short axle and my flywheel is made long axle.
01-18-2010, 02:27 PM
#30
(01-17-2010, 06:57 PM)gvpOr Mg sport getrag on 190e 2,3 -16Quote:I have now 662nm and transmission have still all gears Smile
Didint reinforced it. Clutch axle i change because this was short axle and my flywheel is made long axle.
I don't know if i ll try the same transmission.....
01-19-2010, 10:43 AM
#31
Quote:Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Jeemu could you tell me the part number of that turbine???Is a hx35 from a cummins 5.9 1996-1998 with changed compressor wheel and turbine wheel or is an exactly model ???
This post was last modified: 01-19-2010, 10:46 AM by gvp.
Quote:Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Jeemu could you tell me the part number of that turbine???Is a hx35 from a cummins 5.9 1996-1998 with changed compressor wheel and turbine wheel or is an exactly model ???
01-19-2010, 11:15 AM
#32
(01-17-2010, 11:04 AM)jeemu Back bressure was higher than boost. i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar and back bressure was 2,5- over 4bar.
Ouch! Thanks for the info!
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(01-17-2010, 11:04 AM)jeemu Back bressure was higher than boost. i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar and back bressure was 2,5- over 4bar.
Ouch! Thanks for the info!
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
01-19-2010, 03:56 PM
#33
(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted.
Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
...
i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar
Thats why it didn't work. Any one of those three turbos alone is large for your engine (The S-HX40 is VERY large) and would supply those pressures and its airflow needs.
The high pressure of a compound is supposed to match your airflow and pressure ratio as if the engine were tuned for it alone. The low pressure turbo then supplies it with denser air and the HP turbo multiplies the pressure ratio. In other words, instead of an HY35 or HX35 you probably should have used something closer to an HX30 or GT2559.
ForcedInduction
01-19-2010, 03:56 PM
#33
(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted.
Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
...
i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar
Thats why it didn't work. Any one of those three turbos alone is large for your engine (The S-HX40 is VERY large) and would supply those pressures and its airflow needs.
The high pressure of a compound is supposed to match your airflow and pressure ratio as if the engine were tuned for it alone. The low pressure turbo then supplies it with denser air and the HP turbo multiplies the pressure ratio. In other words, instead of an HY35 or HX35 you probably should have used something closer to an HX30 or GT2559.
01-19-2010, 04:38 PM
#34
(01-19-2010, 03:56 PM)ForcedInductionYou are right and wrong. Yes little turbo was too big and big too small. But hy35 or hx35 isint big enough to have that engine over 450hp,(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted.
Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
...
i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar
Thats why it didn't work. Any one of those three turbos alone is large for your engine (The S-HX40 is VERY large) and would supply those pressures and its airflow needs.
The high pressure of a compound is supposed to match your airflow and pressure ratio as if the engine were tuned for it alone. The low pressure turbo then supplies it with denser air and the HP turbo multiplies the pressure ratio. In other words, instead of an HY35 or HX35 you probably should have used something closer to an HX30 or GT2559.
whitout broblems.
(01-19-2010, 03:56 PM)ForcedInductionYou are right and wrong. Yes little turbo was too big and big too small. But hy35 or hx35 isint big enough to have that engine over 450hp,(01-16-2010, 06:37 PM)jeemu Hi. I i didint get working those turbos on compound setup like i wanted.
Too much back bressure. I tried hy35/super hx40 and special build hx35/super hx40.
...
i tested Boost was 1.5bar to 2.5bar
Thats why it didn't work. Any one of those three turbos alone is large for your engine (The S-HX40 is VERY large) and would supply those pressures and its airflow needs.
The high pressure of a compound is supposed to match your airflow and pressure ratio as if the engine were tuned for it alone. The low pressure turbo then supplies it with denser air and the HP turbo multiplies the pressure ratio. In other words, instead of an HY35 or HX35 you probably should have used something closer to an HX30 or GT2559.
whitout broblems.
01-19-2010, 04:50 PM
#35
Quote:Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Jeemu could you tell me the part number of that turbine???Is a hx35 from a cummins 5.9 1996-1998 with changed compressor wheel and turbine wheel or is an exactly model ???[/quote]
Quote:Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Jeemu could you tell me the part number of that turbine???Is a hx35 from a cummins 5.9 1996-1998 with changed compressor wheel and turbine wheel or is an exactly model ???[/quote]
01-19-2010, 06:25 PM
#36
(01-19-2010, 04:50 PM)gvpDont know part number. Its not any vehicle oem turbo.Quote:Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Jeemu could you tell me the part number of that turbine???Is a hx35 from a cummins 5.9 1996-1998 with changed compressor wheel and turbine wheel or is an exactly model ???
You have to ask our own Holset dealer that turbo. Its hx35 60mm turbinewheel and 54mm high pressure compressor wheel.
Or Master Power 802315 with didived .70 exhaust A/R . I dynod that turbo 380hp/580nm on OM605
This post was last modified: 01-19-2010, 06:30 PM by jeemu.
(01-19-2010, 04:50 PM)gvpDont know part number. Its not any vehicle oem turbo.Quote:Try Holset hx35, Kompressor wheel 54mm(same profil as super hx40) and turbinewheel 60mm.
Jeemu could you tell me the part number of that turbine???Is a hx35 from a cummins 5.9 1996-1998 with changed compressor wheel and turbine wheel or is an exactly model ???
You have to ask our own Holset dealer that turbo. Its hx35 60mm turbinewheel and 54mm high pressure compressor wheel.
Or Master Power 802315 with didived .70 exhaust A/R . I dynod that turbo 380hp/580nm on OM605
09-09-2010, 02:30 PM
#37
It really accelerete nice after 2500 RPM 5 PSI, until 5400 RPM 25 PSI the turbo is controlled by EGP. set to around max 25 PSI.
But still a little tweks to do, to get it all rigth
Attached Files
Image(s)1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
Finally got the car on the road width the HE351VE
It really accelerete nice after 2500 RPM 5 PSI, until 5400 RPM 25 PSI the turbo is controlled by EGP. set to around max 25 PSI.
But still a little tweks to do, to get it all rigth
Attached Files
Image(s)1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
09-11-2010, 09:56 AM
#39
(09-10-2010, 03:44 PM)meareweird Awesome! Let's get some vids!
I will make some vids soon no problem, just need to mount a new map sensor "EGP" for the vanes controller i want a 3 bar instedt of the 2 bar i have now, then i can log it on the PC also. i want to find the best spool up, and it has alot to do width EGP.
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(09-10-2010, 03:44 PM)meareweird Awesome! Let's get some vids!
I will make some vids soon no problem, just need to mount a new map sensor "EGP" for the vanes controller i want a 3 bar instedt of the 2 bar i have now, then i can log it on the PC also. i want to find the best spool up, and it has alot to do width EGP.
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
09-11-2010, 04:27 PM
#40
ForcedInduction
09-11-2010, 04:27 PM
#40
So you use electronics to control the turbo? I see a pneumatic actuator so obviously you're not using the stock motor actuator. Are you using vacuum or pressure?
09-12-2010, 08:28 AM
#41
(09-11-2010, 04:27 PM)ForcedInduction So you use electronics to control the turbo? I see a pneumatic actuator so obviously you're not using the stock motor actuator. Are you using vacuum or pressure?
I use a waccum actuator controled by waccum to close the wanes. when my electronical messured EGP (map sensor 0-5 V) goes to high then waccum is removed and wanes open. i use the waccum valves original controlling the turbo on the OM606.
I have adjustet the vanes so that i have around 5 PSI backpressure when crusing highway, what backpressure do you run on the VNT ? when crusing. i thing to high = use more fuel.
Here you can see how i control the Turbo width the Gearbox controller. the walves is controlled by PWM signals.
This post was last modified: 09-12-2010, 08:35 AM by olefejer.
Attached Files
Image(s)1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(09-11-2010, 04:27 PM)ForcedInduction So you use electronics to control the turbo? I see a pneumatic actuator so obviously you're not using the stock motor actuator. Are you using vacuum or pressure?
I use a waccum actuator controled by waccum to close the wanes. when my electronical messured EGP (map sensor 0-5 V) goes to high then waccum is removed and wanes open. i use the waccum valves original controlling the turbo on the OM606.
I have adjustet the vanes so that i have around 5 PSI backpressure when crusing highway, what backpressure do you run on the VNT ? when crusing. i thing to high = use more fuel.
Here you can see how i control the Turbo width the Gearbox controller. the walves is controlled by PWM signals.
Attached Files
Image(s)1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
ForcedInduction
09-12-2010, 09:28 AM
#42
Pretty cool!
But I have to ask, whats with using "w" in place of "v"?
09-12-2010, 10:39 AM
#43
(09-12-2010, 09:28 AM)ForcedInduction Pretty cool!
But I have to ask, whats with using "w" in place of "v"?
hmm i dont get that, if it is spelling, then its not my strong side ;-)
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(09-12-2010, 09:28 AM)ForcedInduction Pretty cool!
But I have to ask, whats with using "w" in place of "v"?
hmm i dont get that, if it is spelling, then its not my strong side ;-)
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
09-12-2010, 10:48 AM
#44
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
Rudolf_Diesel
09-12-2010, 10:48 AM #44Doesn't the "w" make the "v" sound in German? Not sure if it is the same in Danish or not...
1982 300SD: 304,xxx Super M-pump with 7.5mm elements, 265 Nozzles, GT35 water cooled turbo, M90 Supercharger, A/W Intercooler, Serpentine drive belt, 3" SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler, 240 breather, AEM dry Filter, Manual Boost Control, EGT / Boost / EMP gauges....Moved on to other projects
1995 F-350 7.3L PSD: 230,xxx 6.0 IC, DIY Stage 1 Injectors, 17* hpop, Tony Wildman Chip, John Wood Trans, 6.4L TC, 3" down pipe, 4" straight exhaust, 310 HP on wheel dyno - 8500# dually: 0-60 in 6.98
Suzuki Samurai: VW 1.9L TD, Trackick doubler transfer case (made by me) 5.8:1 transfer case gears, YJ springs front and rear with rear missing links, wheel base extended 14", diffs welded, some day a VNT.
09-12-2010, 10:56 AM
#45
(09-12-2010, 10:48 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Doesn't the "w" make the "v" sound in German? Not sure if it is the same in Danish or not...
Oh i see its not Wacuum but Vacuum, Thanks ;-)
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(09-12-2010, 10:48 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Doesn't the "w" make the "v" sound in German? Not sure if it is the same in Danish or not...
Oh i see its not Wacuum but Vacuum, Thanks ;-)
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
09-13-2010, 10:45 AM
#47
(09-12-2010, 09:27 PM)meareweird How do you adjust fastness on your pc software?I think this screenshot would give you an idea. TPS "trottle position"
Attached Files
Image(s)1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(09-12-2010, 09:27 PM)meareweird How do you adjust fastness on your pc software?I think this screenshot would give you an idea. TPS "trottle position"
Attached Files
Image(s)1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
09-13-2010, 12:24 PM
#50
(09-13-2010, 12:17 PM)tomnik cool!http://powertraincontrolsolutions.com/transcontrol.php
where is this gearbox controller from? After market?
This would be a double solution: controlling a 5 speed autotranny (that seemed uncontrollable up to now due to CAN BUS) and a VTg controller...
Please tell me more.
Tom
Supported only by specific dealers, no PCS support
Mercedes/Chrysler 722.6
Authorized Dealer:
R. Drake Inc.
r_drake@att.net
425-503-9233
I bougt it from Drake, he is very very helpfull,
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(09-13-2010, 12:17 PM)tomnik cool!http://powertraincontrolsolutions.com/transcontrol.php
where is this gearbox controller from? After market?
This would be a double solution: controlling a 5 speed autotranny (that seemed uncontrollable up to now due to CAN BUS) and a VTg controller...
Please tell me more.
Tom
Supported only by specific dealers, no PCS support
Mercedes/Chrysler 722.6
Authorized Dealer:
R. Drake Inc.
r_drake@att.net
425-503-9233
I bougt it from Drake, he is very very helpfull,
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
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