Kozuka's OM603 Swap into a 16V thread

STD Tuning Engine Kozuka's OM603 Swap into a 16V thread

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Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-06-2009, 06:44 PM #1

So I'm going to attempt an OM603 swap into a W201 16V.

The donor engine would be a 1987 W124 300D Turbo 603960 12 008523

I had a few questions.

Idle control on these engines. How does it work? Is there a certain amount of Voltage/Amperage that adjusts the idle to 650 rpm (i'm going to try and not use a 190D/300D donor car and just make it run in the means of wiring to make it as simple as possible. We don't need that ECM to make this motor run. Maybe someone could run a volt meter on the idle controller at idle and let me know.

I'm told the radiator/mounting brackets for this engine are the same as an M103/M104. Can anyone verify this?

I plan on either custom making a fuel tank or a 190D fuel tank and running rubber line the whole way to the engine can you see any major problems with this? Should I use an electric fuel pump or just let the injection pump pull it.

I'm going to use a 16V Manual Trans (getrag) clutch and flywheel.

I am planning on using a 40amp relay to heat up the glow plugs on 12V switched system. Will this be adequat?

Any other concerns I should know about?

Thanks,
Kozuka

Kozuka

01-06-2009, 06:44 PM #1

~~ForcedInduction~~

Banned

3,628

01-07-2009, 04:22 AM #2

(01-06-2009, 06:44 PM)Kozuka Idle control on these engines. How does it work? Is there a certain amount of Voltage/Amperage that adjusts the idle to 650 rpm (i'm going to try and not use a 190D/300D donor car and just make it run in the means of wiring to make it as simple as possible. We don't need that ECM to make this motor run. Maybe someone could run a volt meter on the idle controller at idle and let me know.

You don't need the computer or anything electrical. You can adjust the internal coarse idle setting up 200rpm and get it to 750rpm with the fine adjustment on the linkage.

Quote:I plan on either custom making a fuel tank or a 190D fuel tank and running rubber line the whole way to the engine can you see any major problems with this? Should I use an electric fuel pump or just let the injection pump pull it.

I'd use whats on there. Diesel won't hurt the gas tank or metal lines.

Quote:I'm going to use a 16V Manual Trans (getrag) clutch and flywheel.

You might want to think about that. The 16v 5-speed should be a close ratio 5, meaning that 5th is 1:1 like 4th normally would be.

Quote:I am planning on using a 40amp relay to heat up the glow plugs on 12V switched system. Will this be adequat?

No. You need a relay rated for at least 80amps continuous duty, a 100amp relay would last longer.

Quote:Any other concerns I should know about?

Just the usual stuff with custom installations. Engine mounts, driveshaft length, speedometer cable length, tachometer, front spring strength (ride height), etc.

ForcedInduction

01-07-2009, 04:22 AM #2

(01-06-2009, 06:44 PM)Kozuka Idle control on these engines. How does it work? Is there a certain amount of Voltage/Amperage that adjusts the idle to 650 rpm (i'm going to try and not use a 190D/300D donor car and just make it run in the means of wiring to make it as simple as possible. We don't need that ECM to make this motor run. Maybe someone could run a volt meter on the idle controller at idle and let me know.

You don't need the computer or anything electrical. You can adjust the internal coarse idle setting up 200rpm and get it to 750rpm with the fine adjustment on the linkage.

Quote:I plan on either custom making a fuel tank or a 190D fuel tank and running rubber line the whole way to the engine can you see any major problems with this? Should I use an electric fuel pump or just let the injection pump pull it.

I'd use whats on there. Diesel won't hurt the gas tank or metal lines.

Quote:I'm going to use a 16V Manual Trans (getrag) clutch and flywheel.

You might want to think about that. The 16v 5-speed should be a close ratio 5, meaning that 5th is 1:1 like 4th normally would be.

Quote:I am planning on using a 40amp relay to heat up the glow plugs on 12V switched system. Will this be adequat?

No. You need a relay rated for at least 80amps continuous duty, a 100amp relay would last longer.

Quote:Any other concerns I should know about?

Just the usual stuff with custom installations. Engine mounts, driveshaft length, speedometer cable length, tachometer, front spring strength (ride height), etc.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-07-2009, 10:24 AM #3

If I have to make custom mounts and get the drive shaft shortened it shouldn't be a big deal. Nothing my welder can't fix Big Grin

But the Fins are saying that it's a strait bolt in operation like a M103/M104 swap into a 16V apart from radiator mounting which I can steal off a 2.6

Is the tach output on these engine just strait 12v or do I need to reduce the output for it to drive the tach.

Thanks,
Kozuka

Kozuka

01-07-2009, 10:24 AM #3

Hey Forced Induction,

Thanks for responding to my post. Do you think I would have problems with the stock Fuel Pump/Filter/Regulator I am thinking I should just by-pass them.

You think that the gear ratio on the 16V would be to short. I don't really plan on using this car for Freeway driving just touring Tongue

If I have to make custom mounts and get the drive shaft shortened it shouldn't be a big deal. Nothing my welder can't fix Big Grin But the Fins are saying that it's a strait bolt in operation like a M103/M104 swap into a 16V apart from radiator mounting which I can steal off a 2.6

Is the tach output on these engine just strait 12v or do I need to reduce the output for it to drive the tach.

Thanks,
Kozuka

~~ForcedInduction~~

Banned

3,628

01-07-2009, 10:34 AM #4

(01-07-2009, 10:24 AM)Kozuka Thanks for responding to my post. Do you think I would have problems with the stock Fuel Pump/Filter/Regulator I am thinking I should just by-pass them.

Yeah, just get rid of them and put a hose in their place.

Quote:You think that the gear ratio on the 16V would be to short. I don't really plan on using this car for Freeway driving just touring

The 2.3-16 used a 3.07 up to 86 and a 3.27 from 87+. The 2.5-16 used a 3.07.

Quote:Is the tach output on these engine just strait 12v or do I need to reduce the output for it to drive the tach.

The tach was driven by the idle/EGR computer. You would have to adapt something.

I may be wrong about the tranny, it could be the EVO's that had the close-ratio 5.

This post was last modified: 01-07-2009, 10:36 AM by ForcedInduction.

ForcedInduction

01-07-2009, 10:34 AM #4

(01-07-2009, 10:24 AM)Kozuka Thanks for responding to my post. Do you think I would have problems with the stock Fuel Pump/Filter/Regulator I am thinking I should just by-pass them.

Yeah, just get rid of them and put a hose in their place.

Quote:You think that the gear ratio on the 16V would be to short. I don't really plan on using this car for Freeway driving just touring

The 2.3-16 used a 3.07 up to 86 and a 3.27 from 87+. The 2.5-16 used a 3.07.

Quote:Is the tach output on these engine just strait 12v or do I need to reduce the output for it to drive the tach.

The tach was driven by the idle/EGR computer. You would have to adapt something.

I may be wrong about the tranny, it could be the EVO's that had the close-ratio 5.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-07-2009, 10:54 AM #5

No your right all 16V's (including EVOI and EVOII) use the same get-rag trans (even in DTM). I wanted to start with a 16V so I would have LSD off the bat and a manual gearbox. I'll throw it together if I don't like it there is a 300D 5speed at my local junkyard that I've been eying Big Grin

Kozuka

01-07-2009, 10:54 AM #5

~~ForcedInduction~~

Banned

3,628

01-07-2009, 11:03 AM #6

If there is a W123 300D 5-speed, GRAB IT no matter if you need it or not!

There are many people that will pay big buck$ for a working 5-speed, driveshaft and shifter. Many more who would buy the 300D flywheel.

This post was last modified: 01-07-2009, 11:04 AM by ForcedInduction.

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ForcedInduction

01-07-2009, 11:03 AM #6

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Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-07-2009, 01:21 PM #7

It's bolted up to a OM602 turbo engine that has some issues. In a W124 chassis I think. Arn't the w123's OM617 engines. I've been looking for a Manual to put into my 79' W116 300SD I don't think they are the same.

Kozuka

01-07-2009, 01:21 PM #7

winmutt

bitbanger

3,468

01-07-2009, 01:37 PM #8

Where are you located?

W123 is an OM61X, the M110 trans will mount up as well.

winmutt

01-07-2009, 01:37 PM #8

Where are you located?

W123 is an OM61X, the M110 trans will mount up as well.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-07-2009, 02:05 PM #9

Mesa, AZ it was located down at the local pick-a-part. So your saying that even a 4-speed 240D trans will bolt up to a OM603 or Any 4,5,6 cylinder made from like 1970's to 1994 (electronic cutoff)

Kozuka

01-07-2009, 02:05 PM #9

Mesa, AZ it was located down at the local pick-a-part. So your saying that even a 4-speed 240D trans will bolt up to a OM603 or Any 4,5,6 cylinder made from like 1970's to 1994 (electronic cutoff)

winmutt

bitbanger

3,468

01-07-2009, 02:23 PM #10

(01-07-2009, 02:05 PM)Kozuka Mesa, AZ it was located down at the local pick-a-part. So your saying that even a 4-speed 240D trans will bolt up to a OM603 or Any 4,5,6 cylinder made from like 1970's to 1994 (electronic cutoff)

No sorry, I meant for the SD. Any of those will mount to the SD. The starter bump on the om60x is on the drivers side, you may be able to put a much wider variety on there I am not sure.

winmutt

01-07-2009, 02:23 PM #10

(01-07-2009, 02:05 PM)Kozuka Mesa, AZ it was located down at the local pick-a-part. So your saying that even a 4-speed 240D trans will bolt up to a OM603 or Any 4,5,6 cylinder made from like 1970's to 1994 (electronic cutoff)

No sorry, I meant for the SD. Any of those will mount to the SD. The starter bump on the om60x is on the drivers side, you may be able to put a much wider variety on there I am not sure.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-07-2009, 02:39 PM #11

What about pedel assembly, hydro lines, and booster feedoff? could they be taken from a 240. I don't think any manual was offered in a W116 body.

Kozuka

01-07-2009, 02:39 PM #11

What about pedel assembly, hydro lines, and booster feedoff? could they be taken from a 240. I don't think any manual was offered in a W116 body.

oel_brenner

GT2256V

146

01-07-2009, 03:19 PM #12

(01-06-2009, 06:44 PM)Kozuka So I'm going to attempt an OM603 swap into a W201 16V.

The donor engine would be a 1987 W124 300D Turbo 603960 12 008523

I am doing basically the same thing but into a W107
have lots of info on wiring and vac circuit and what not
look on this site ( and others ) for the thread about the SL300D

I bet the 109D engine mounts bolt right up..

HTH

-Jason

cars
1991 W126 350SDL turbodiesel
1987 W124 E300D turbodiesel
1987 W126 300SDL turbodiesel
1984 W107 SL300D turbodiesel
1974 W115 /8 300D diesel

trucks
2001 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Cummins turbodiesel

boats
1974 Uniflite "Salty Dog" powered by
2x OM617.951 Mercedes Benz 5Cyl turbodiesels

oel_brenner

01-07-2009, 03:19 PM #12

(01-06-2009, 06:44 PM)Kozuka So I'm going to attempt an OM603 swap into a W201 16V.

The donor engine would be a 1987 W124 300D Turbo 603960 12 008523

winmutt

bitbanger

3,468

01-07-2009, 09:32 PM #13

(01-07-2009, 02:39 PM)Kozuka What about pedel assembly, hydro lines, and booster feedoff? could they be taken from a 240. I don't think any manual was offered in a W116 body.

Clutch hydraulics yes. everything else I don't know.

Silly you of course you could get a manual in a 116.

This post was last modified: 02-01-2009, 06:23 PM by ForcedInduction.

winmutt

01-07-2009, 09:32 PM #13

(01-07-2009, 02:39 PM)Kozuka What about pedel assembly, hydro lines, and booster feedoff? could they be taken from a 240. I don't think any manual was offered in a W116 body.

Clutch hydraulics yes. everything else I don't know.

Silly you of course you could get a manual in a 116.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-08-2009, 11:55 AM #14

(01-07-2009, 03:19 PM)oel_brenner
(01-06-2009, 06:44 PM)Kozuka So I'm going to attempt an OM603 swap into a W201 16V.

The donor engine would be a 1987 W124 300D Turbo 603960 12 008523

I am doing basically the same thing but into a W107
have lots of info on wiring and vac circuit and what not
look on this site ( and others ) for the thread about the SL300D

I bet the 109D engine mounts bolt right up..

HTH

-Jason

Well 300E/190E mount brackets are the same so maybe 300D/190D mounts are the same or maybe they are just like a 2.6. Only time will tell but be sure that I will be posting my find right here

Current progress. Pulling the Cosworth motor out of the car (In Progress)

My OM603 engine on its way and should arrive by next week. Complete with everything Big Grin

Kozuka

01-08-2009, 11:55 AM #14

(01-07-2009, 03:19 PM)oel_brenner
(01-06-2009, 06:44 PM)Kozuka So I'm going to attempt an OM603 swap into a W201 16V.

The donor engine would be a 1987 W124 300D Turbo 603960 12 008523

I am doing basically the same thing but into a W107
have lots of info on wiring and vac circuit and what not
look on this site ( and others ) for the thread about the SL300D

I bet the 109D engine mounts bolt right up..

HTH

-Jason

oel_brenner

GT2256V

146

01-10-2009, 01:08 PM #15

(01-08-2009, 11:55 AM)Kozuka Well 300E/190E mount brackets are the same so maybe 300D/190D mounts are the same or maybe they are just like a 2.6. Only time will tell but be sure that I will be posting my find right here

Current progress. Pulling the Cosworth motor out of the car (In Progress)

My OM603 engine on its way and should arrive by next week. Complete with everything

there is a W201 190D
at my local euro scrapyard (my second home)

I can prolly get whatever you need if you having trouble sourcing the stuff

oel_brenner

01-10-2009, 01:08 PM #15

(01-08-2009, 11:55 AM)Kozuka Well 300E/190E mount brackets are the same so maybe 300D/190D mounts are the same or maybe they are just like a 2.6. Only time will tell but be sure that I will be posting my find right here

Current progress. Pulling the Cosworth motor out of the car (In Progress)

My OM603 engine on its way and should arrive by next week. Complete with everything

there is a W201 190D
at my local euro scrapyard (my second home)

I can prolly get whatever you need if you having trouble sourcing the stuff

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

01-19-2009, 03:16 PM #16

Just so you guys don't think I'm slacking. Heres a sweet pic of my empty engine bay!

Waiting for engine to arrive doing come cleanup/prepwork

Engine will ship out tomorrow so I expect it sometime this or next week!

Kozuka

01-19-2009, 03:16 PM #16

Just so you guys don't think I'm slacking. Heres a sweet pic of my empty engine bay!

Waiting for engine to arrive doing come cleanup/prepwork

Engine will ship out tomorrow so I expect it sometime this or next week!

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

02-01-2009, 11:34 AM #17

Got the engine in it goes strait in about an inch further back than the stock setup. Bolts in using the stock mounts and W124 300D engine mounts. it does not clear the lower front swaybar though might have to use a 190E 2.6 one or add an inch to both brackets.

It's definatly a shoe horn job and will require a 2.6 radiator swap to be able to fit all the equipment needed up front. The blower cover had to be removed and probably modified to fit right. A notch had to be cut to

[Image: 190e0000gy7.jpg]

Time to figure out the wiring now >.<

Does anyone have a pinout for the 1987 OM603 turbo ECM or Color Guide?

This post was last modified: 02-01-2009, 12:26 PM by Kozuka.

Kozuka

02-01-2009, 11:34 AM #17

Does anyone have a pinout for the 1987 OM603 turbo ECM or Color Guide?

winmutt

bitbanger

3,468

02-02-2009, 10:33 AM #18

Sweet! Looks nice. I had to check, I have the W124 SM but it only covers the vergassers.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

winmutt

02-02-2009, 10:33 AM #18

Sweet! Looks nice. I had to check, I have the W124 SM but it only covers the vergassers.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

02-02-2009, 09:29 PM #19

I have a 80amp relay some 3 & 4 guage wire terminals and 80 amp fuses. Two bottle's of diesel purge should I see just how it runs without any wiring? Obviously to have a proper idle I'm either going have to adjust the idle screw or integrate the ECM. I do have the both engine harnesses if I could make some sense of them then I would like to use the engine harness. I've tried to read ole_bremers wiring harness pictures on his site but they are too low resolution to make sense of.

Kozuka

02-02-2009, 09:29 PM #19

~~ForcedInduction~~

Banned

3,628

02-02-2009, 09:37 PM #20

It will idle at 500rpm without the computer.

ForcedInduction

02-02-2009, 09:37 PM #20

It will idle at 500rpm without the computer.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

02-03-2009, 10:49 AM #21

Wont that shake my poor car to pieces haha.

I plan on completely deleteing the A/C system. If I bypass the heater core could I delete the Aux pump?

I'm going to recieve my radiator brackets soon and we'll see what this thing really needs to get running good

Would the OM603 engine ECM have the same pinout as a 190E 2.5D or TD 1987 OM602 model? if so I have all the diesel wiring diagrams.

This post was last modified: 02-03-2009, 11:00 AM by Kozuka.

Kozuka

02-03-2009, 10:49 AM #21

winmutt

bitbanger

3,468

02-03-2009, 11:58 AM #22

I would love a LSD in my ride.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

winmutt

02-03-2009, 11:58 AM #22

I would love a LSD in my ride.

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

02-03-2009, 12:45 PM #23

Ha LSD will be nice thats for sure and the great handling w201 chassis! Somewhere around 2600 pounds when shes stripped. It'll be a fun drive Big Grin

I'm still in the process of pulling the old wiring/figuring out what I'm going to do while I wait for the radiator mounting/downpipe.

The hood does not clear the intake pipe completely it's like an 8th of an inch from closing. Defintally sometime in the future will be the new turbo + intercooler action.

Does the oil cooler require constant air blowing on it the only position I can seem to stick it is behind the front bumper.

Kozuka

02-03-2009, 12:45 PM #23

Ha LSD will be nice thats for sure and the great handling w201 chassis! Somewhere around 2600 pounds when shes stripped. It'll be a fun drive Big Grin

I'm still in the process of pulling the old wiring/figuring out what I'm going to do while I wait for the radiator mounting/downpipe.

The hood does not clear the intake pipe completely it's like an 8th of an inch from closing. Defintally sometime in the future will be the new turbo + intercooler action.

Does the oil cooler require constant air blowing on it the only position I can seem to stick it is behind the front bumper.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

02-05-2009, 01:18 PM #24

If I just loosened locking nut 3a and turned adjustment screw 3 would I be able to bring the idle up to 700-800? This seems to be located on the back on the IP outside of the case is a somewhat accessible area.

http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM...iagram.jpg

Kozuka

02-05-2009, 01:18 PM #24

winmutt

bitbanger

3,468

02-05-2009, 05:07 PM #25

(02-05-2009, 01:18 PM)Kozuka If I just loosened locking nut 3a and turned adjustment screw 3 would I be able to bring the idle up to 700-800? This seems to be located on the back on the IP outside of the case is a somewhat accessible area.

http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM...iagram.jpg

What makes you think the idle is off?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

winmutt

02-05-2009, 05:07 PM #25

(02-05-2009, 01:18 PM)Kozuka If I just loosened locking nut 3a and turned adjustment screw 3 would I be able to bring the idle up to 700-800? This seems to be located on the back on the IP outside of the case is a somewhat accessible area.

http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM...iagram.jpg

What makes you think the idle is off?

1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42

~~ForcedInduction~~

Banned

3,628

02-06-2009, 04:19 AM #26

(02-05-2009, 01:18 PM)Kozuka What makes you think the idle is off?

Without the computer it will idle at 500rpm.

ForcedInduction

02-06-2009, 04:19 AM #26

(02-05-2009, 01:18 PM)Kozuka What makes you think the idle is off?

Without the computer it will idle at 500rpm.

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

02-06-2009, 09:00 AM #27

(02-05-2009, 05:07 PM)winmutt What makes you think the idle is off?

I wont be using the ECM in the beginning unless I can find some kind of electrical troubleshooting manual for a W124 Diesel (I have the W201 one) to tell me what these wires running into the fuse box are (gauges, starting switch, etc). This means that the idle will be low. (500 rpm) which based on experience will shake my poor car. My OM617 shakes like a dog out of a pool when the idle has dropped below 600 or so. I need to adjust this a turn or so to bring the idle up to a acceptable rpm.

Does anyone know the standard fuel line size for the fuel going into the fuel heater/ bypass (should it have an inline filter?) and the size that comes off of the filter for the return.

Current progress is I'm waiting on my radiator supports, downpipe, and some wiring before I can do the initial start up. I've removed all of the underhood A/C equipment.

I'm trying to decide what to do about the wiring. One side of me is saying pull all of it and start from scratch. The other is telling me to use the stock wiring from the 16V for the gauges, starter switch, etc. (apart from tacho) and keep trying to track down a wiring guide to wire the ECM just enough to get tacho output.

I'll keep working at it though maybe we'll get a first start somewhere in a the next week or so.

Kozuka

02-06-2009, 09:00 AM #27

(02-05-2009, 05:07 PM)winmutt What makes you think the idle is off?

Kozuka

I'm_Badass

334

03-15-2009, 12:38 PM #28

So I've been working on this thing,

Currently progress is. I've sourced the rest of the electronics for my wiring harness. I plugged in the OVP Relay, sent 12v power down the Red/Pink Line that goes into the fuse box (needs to be plugged in constant 12V in the keys start and run position) this is the wire the engages the EDS system on a 1987 300DT. I hear the actuator engage for the idle when power is supplied, This is a good thing and means that I can use the completely stock wiring harness at first and delete things I don't need. As like the Mass Air Flow Sensor is already deleted. I should be good for a first start there but there's a few things holding me back.

I decided to go with a stock glow plug relay after seeing how much of a bitch it would be to take the intake manifold off and rewire the glow plugs. But now I need the little plug that comes off of the dash harness that plugs into the 4-pin plug on the relay for the switching of it / light. Can anyone get me one of these I'll give you like $30 just for the stupid plug with a pigtail ha.

Still waiting on the shipment of the 2.6 upper and lower radiator mounts.

I'm going to need a W124 I6 or V8 front lower sway bar. Stock One doesn't clear the motor.

Shifter linkage has to be shortened by 40mm or so.

Anybody know what the diagnostic plug that looks like an ignition plug (4-pin round, EZL Controller, engine harness) is on the W124 Harness and what it plugs into? Since there is no coil on a diesel Big Grin

I'm deleting the A/C and ABS if I can find the parts ha.

I'm going to try and source a manual transmission, shifter, and linkage off a W124 3.0 or a W201 2.6. Tracked down a couple but yet to see any reply's. I want to get a Spec clutch this time I don't trust the Sachs.

This post was last modified: 03-15-2009, 12:39 PM by Kozuka.

Kozuka

03-15-2009, 12:38 PM #28

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