what are the pros and cons of moving/altering the oil thermostat/filter housing?
what are the pros and cons of moving/altering the oil thermostat/filter housing?
12-21-2010, 08:28 PM
#1
Would the engine oil be hotter in the engine since the sole source of heat transfer would be from the oil flowing instead of also through the block, or would the distance and the lines make the general oil temp cooler?
I am hoping that anyone who had installed/ made a remote oil filter would post a pic, I seem to remember seeing some on the board, but am unable to find them. Id love to hear how the remote filters are working out!
thanks
This post was last modified: 12-21-2010, 08:29 PM by JB3.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
I have to move my stock oil filter to use a transmission adapter, and I was considering just making a plate and remounting the whole stock housing including thermostat about 2 feet away so I could still use the big toploader filter I like. Any thoughts on how this would effect the proper operation of the oil thermostat?
Would the engine oil be hotter in the engine since the sole source of heat transfer would be from the oil flowing instead of also through the block, or would the distance and the lines make the general oil temp cooler?
I am hoping that anyone who had installed/ made a remote oil filter would post a pic, I seem to remember seeing some on the board, but am unable to find them. Id love to hear how the remote filters are working out!
thanks
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
12-21-2010, 10:23 PM
#2
This post was last modified: 12-21-2010, 10:24 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
12-21-2010, 10:23 PM
#2
It wouldn't make a difference. The thick gasket is a decent insulator and the cooler is well oversize for the application.
12-24-2010, 02:05 PM
#4
(12-22-2010, 10:00 AM)winmutt There was a guy that was making these for a reasonable price on benzworld or pp. Search for landrover / oil / plate.
fyi,
I emailed him but never got a response....sorry, will have to look for the addy if your interested.
I believe this is a pic of his adapter:
![[Image: remote_filter.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/remote_filter.jpg)
A buddy was able to make me one out of 5/8" aluminum...really happy with how it turned out
Used a gasket, as a template:
![[Image: adapter-01.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-01.jpg)
No, I don't believe a Bridgeport is necessary to make one of these :p
![[Image: adapter-02.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-02.jpg)
will be using 1/2NPT to AN8 fittings
![[Image: adapter-03.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-03.jpg)
![[Image: adapter-04.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-04.jpg)
final trimming of adapter plate:
![[Image: adapter-05.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-05.jpg)
test fit:
![[Image: adapter-06.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-06.jpg)
the biggest reason for my oil-housing relocation was due to a parking brake cable interference...no longer an issue
![[Image: adapter-07.jpg]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/mr_manny/adapter-07.jpg)
Toyota fj40 Landcruiser with a Mercedes om617 3.0L turbo diesel
(12-22-2010, 10:00 AM)winmutt There was a guy that was making these for a reasonable price on benzworld or pp. Search for landrover / oil / plate.
fyi,
I emailed him but never got a response....sorry, will have to look for the addy if your interested.
I believe this is a pic of his adapter:
A buddy was able to make me one out of 5/8" aluminum...really happy with how it turned out
Used a gasket, as a template:
No, I don't believe a Bridgeport is necessary to make one of these :p
will be using 1/2NPT to AN8 fittings
final trimming of adapter plate:
test fit:
the biggest reason for my oil-housing relocation was due to a parking brake cable interference...no longer an issue
Toyota fj40 Landcruiser with a Mercedes om617 3.0L turbo diesel
12-24-2010, 02:41 PM
#5
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
12-24-2010, 02:41 PM #5That's a good solution to a bad problem + It's a nice looking adapter!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
12-24-2010, 06:17 PM
#6
But on mr_manny's, you only have the two holes, and no provision for the small hole, can it just be blocked off?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
so what does the smaller hole on the block under the lower port do? I see in the pics of the landrover guy's adapter, hes included a provision for that port. (I also searched for him, it seems he's disappeared on those boards)
But on mr_manny's, you only have the two holes, and no provision for the small hole, can it just be blocked off?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
12-24-2010, 06:46 PM
#7
(12-24-2010, 06:17 PM)dropnosky so what does the smaller hole on the block under the lower port do? I see in the pics of the landrover guy's adapter, hes included a provision for that port. (I also searched for him, it seems he's disappeared on those boards)
But on mr_manny's, you only have the two holes, and no provision for the small hole, can it just be blocked off?
The small hole is a line for the By-Pass section of the oil filter. The line drains by-passed filtered oil to the crank case instead of the main oil lines.
See attachments and the part marked "C".
The hole can just be blocked off with the plate.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
12-24-2010, 06:46 PM #7(12-24-2010, 06:17 PM)dropnosky so what does the smaller hole on the block under the lower port do? I see in the pics of the landrover guy's adapter, hes included a provision for that port. (I also searched for him, it seems he's disappeared on those boards)
But on mr_manny's, you only have the two holes, and no provision for the small hole, can it just be blocked off?
The small hole is a line for the By-Pass section of the oil filter. The line drains by-passed filtered oil to the crank case instead of the main oil lines.
See attachments and the part marked "C".
The hole can just be blocked off with the plate.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
12-24-2010, 07:22 PM
#8
If you end up using a different filter and housing, then a blockoff on the block side would be ok since there would be no need for drain-back.
This post was last modified: 12-24-2010, 07:23 PM by 300D50.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Um... isn't the bypass element required to get good oil longevity? I'd think twice before just blocking it off... Not to mention it negates the reasons for using a Benz style cartridge filter entirely...
If you end up using a different filter and housing, then a blockoff on the block side would be ok since there would be no need for drain-back.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
12-24-2010, 09:16 PM
#9
(12-24-2010, 07:22 PM)300D50 Um... isn't the bypass element required to get good oil longevity? I'd think twice before just blocking it off... Not to mention it negates the reasons for using a Benz style cartridge filter entirely...
If you end up using a different filter and housing, then a blockoff on the block side would be ok since there would be no need for drain-back.
Yes exactly for oil longevity. I wouldn't do it if your using the stock filter housing. But if you install another filter, like an Amsoil BMK-23 unit, then you'll need to block that drain. I had this conversation with diametricalbenz about very this issue a few months ago for his w115 project.
The top area of the filter is the by pass. The bottom portion is the regular filter media known as the full flow section. All oil that feeds into the main lines for bearings and moving parts flow fast through the regular media. The bypass is set up so that the excess oil in the filter housing can trickle through the by pass media at a slow rate. This slow flow allows for further scrubbing of soot and other particles at a much higher micron rating then the regular media of the full flow section. Because the bypass section is meant to be filter at a very slow rate, it cannot be introduced to the faster flow section of the main line, so it gets diverted to the oil pan sump.
The cycle continues when the oil pump picks up mixed clean oil from the filter and dirty oil from the moving parts and sends it back to the filter. When the diluted oil reaches the regular media, there is less particles for it to filter as opposed to having a filer without a bypass. This where I believe the 32 micron WIX full flow filter (without a bypass section) for the 617 will do more long term damage then any other filter out there. (For comparison, the Mahle filter is 22 Microns of the full flow regular section, but Bypass is undetermined and Mann is 27 for full flow section and bypass undetermined)
Regarding the waste cotton gin found in many OE 617 filters. Mercedes somehow figured out the media of waste cotton gin does a pretty good darn job of filtering oil with soot. Just the thought of having that stuff doesn't make sense to me. But Mercedes seems to think it is fine. Most filter manufactures don't have info as to what micron is the bysection. The only company that does is Baldwin, in which their full flow section is 18 microns and bypass is 15 microns. Baldwin's bypass section is made with a regular filter element,
because of this, I am still on the fence as to how that compares to the slow moving filtered oil of the cotton media. I’m betting even with the waste cotton junk, that cotton media does a much finer filtering then Baldwin's 15 microns and 1000x’s (exaggeration) better then the full flow WIX.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
12-24-2010, 09:16 PM #9(12-24-2010, 07:22 PM)300D50 Um... isn't the bypass element required to get good oil longevity? I'd think twice before just blocking it off... Not to mention it negates the reasons for using a Benz style cartridge filter entirely...
If you end up using a different filter and housing, then a blockoff on the block side would be ok since there would be no need for drain-back.
Yes exactly for oil longevity. I wouldn't do it if your using the stock filter housing. But if you install another filter, like an Amsoil BMK-23 unit, then you'll need to block that drain. I had this conversation with diametricalbenz about very this issue a few months ago for his w115 project.
The top area of the filter is the by pass. The bottom portion is the regular filter media known as the full flow section. All oil that feeds into the main lines for bearings and moving parts flow fast through the regular media. The bypass is set up so that the excess oil in the filter housing can trickle through the by pass media at a slow rate. This slow flow allows for further scrubbing of soot and other particles at a much higher micron rating then the regular media of the full flow section. Because the bypass section is meant to be filter at a very slow rate, it cannot be introduced to the faster flow section of the main line, so it gets diverted to the oil pan sump.
The cycle continues when the oil pump picks up mixed clean oil from the filter and dirty oil from the moving parts and sends it back to the filter. When the diluted oil reaches the regular media, there is less particles for it to filter as opposed to having a filer without a bypass. This where I believe the 32 micron WIX full flow filter (without a bypass section) for the 617 will do more long term damage then any other filter out there. (For comparison, the Mahle filter is 22 Microns of the full flow regular section, but Bypass is undetermined and Mann is 27 for full flow section and bypass undetermined)
Regarding the waste cotton gin found in many OE 617 filters. Mercedes somehow figured out the media of waste cotton gin does a pretty good darn job of filtering oil with soot. Just the thought of having that stuff doesn't make sense to me. But Mercedes seems to think it is fine. Most filter manufactures don't have info as to what micron is the bysection. The only company that does is Baldwin, in which their full flow section is 18 microns and bypass is 15 microns. Baldwin's bypass section is made with a regular filter element,
because of this, I am still on the fence as to how that compares to the slow moving filtered oil of the cotton media. I’m betting even with the waste cotton junk, that cotton media does a much finer filtering then Baldwin's 15 microns and 1000x’s (exaggeration) better then the full flow WIX.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
12-25-2010, 01:42 PM
#10
The issue is, these filters have different thread sizes:
B253 : 3/4-16
B164 : 5/8-18
I guess I was optimistic in thinking a dual 3/4 head unit would be a good starting point...but the shop said it would be better to stick w/dual B253 full-flows.
I haven't given up on the by-pass...just need to do some more research
I figure I can always pickup a 5/8s filter head, and incorporate into my system later...
Currently the remote oiling filter/cooler design is looking like the following:
Adapter plate - dual 3/4-16 head unit w/full-flow filters - oil thermostat - oil cooler
Later, tap into the head unit or add in-line adapters to accommodate the by-pass head unit needed for the B164 filter.
Toyota fj40 Landcruiser with a Mercedes om617 3.0L turbo diesel
The original plan was to make my own BMK-23 dual-head unit, but utilizing baldwin filters...a full-flow B253 and by-pass B164 filter.
The issue is, these filters have different thread sizes:
B253 : 3/4-16
B164 : 5/8-18
I guess I was optimistic in thinking a dual 3/4 head unit would be a good starting point...but the shop said it would be better to stick w/dual B253 full-flows.
I haven't given up on the by-pass...just need to do some more research
I figure I can always pickup a 5/8s filter head, and incorporate into my system later...
Currently the remote oiling filter/cooler design is looking like the following:
Adapter plate - dual 3/4-16 head unit w/full-flow filters - oil thermostat - oil cooler
Later, tap into the head unit or add in-line adapters to accommodate the by-pass head unit needed for the B164 filter.
Toyota fj40 Landcruiser with a Mercedes om617 3.0L turbo diesel
12-26-2010, 10:30 PM
#12
(12-24-2010, 07:22 PM)300D50 Um... isn't the bypass element required to get good oil longevity? I'd think twice before just blocking it off... Not to mention it negates the reasons for using a Benz style cartridge filter entirely.
Ditto. It will also make filter changes very messy since it won't drain when the cap is pulled.
If you disable the bypass you might as well buy an off the shelf filter base and use a Fram PH8a or some other spin-on filter, if only for the better space utilization. Don't forget an oil thermostat (210*f or higher) is required for the cooler.
Quote:synthetic...which will be changed at 3K (cheap insurance)Thats extremely wasteful.
This post was last modified: 12-26-2010, 10:32 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
12-26-2010, 10:30 PM
#12
(12-24-2010, 07:22 PM)300D50 Um... isn't the bypass element required to get good oil longevity? I'd think twice before just blocking it off... Not to mention it negates the reasons for using a Benz style cartridge filter entirely.
Ditto. It will also make filter changes very messy since it won't drain when the cap is pulled.
If you disable the bypass you might as well buy an off the shelf filter base and use a Fram PH8a or some other spin-on filter, if only for the better space utilization. Don't forget an oil thermostat (210*f or higher) is required for the cooler.
Quote:synthetic...which will be changed at 3K (cheap insurance)Thats extremely wasteful.
12-26-2010, 10:37 PM
#13
After looking at the filter layout, if you're running it without the bypass, you're wasting 3/4 of the filter.
Seal #25 in the filter itself is likely keeping any oil from flowing through that huge bypass element, so yeah, you should definitely add that to your adapter.
This post was last modified: 12-26-2010, 10:54 PM by 300D50.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Well, the bug has bit me, I'll be laying out a set.
After looking at the filter layout, if you're running it without the bypass, you're wasting 3/4 of the filter.
Seal #25 in the filter itself is likely keeping any oil from flowing through that huge bypass element, so yeah, you should definitely add that to your adapter.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
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