electronic pump with big elements
electronic pump with big elements
Has anyone here run an electronic ip with bigger elements and got results?
Does anyone know of any restrictions with electronic pump?
Can rpm be raised through mapping and boost limit raised or signal clamped.
why is there so little in the back of electronic pump (rack position sensor and solenoid or stepper motor to operate governor) when there is so many adjustments in older mechanical pump.
I know the pump can be adjusted through the ecu but its just the governor rod that moves in electronic pump is it not.
wayne
Hi,
Has anyone here run an electronic ip with bigger elements and got results?
Does anyone know of any restrictions with electronic pump?
Can rpm be raised through mapping and boost limit raised or signal clamped.
why is there so little in the back of electronic pump (rack position sensor and solenoid or stepper motor to operate governor) when there is so many adjustments in older mechanical pump.
I know the pump can be adjusted through the ecu but its just the governor rod that moves in electronic pump is it not.
wayne
Electronic and mechanical are two approaches to the same goal: controlling the fuel injected into the engine. In the end, the result is the exact same. In both methods, the only thing that ultimately happens is that the rack is positioned for a given RPM and boost level.
As far as timing, both M series pumps have the same exact timing device - mechanical.
A mechanical pump has to use a complex series of interacting levers, springs and weights to create a fuel delivery profile. The electronic pump simply relies on calculations from the EDC based on input from various sensors to accomplish the same thing so it doesn't need nearly as many mechanicals. Where you would turn a screw or change a spring in a mechanical pump, you just alter a sensor signal or better yet, the numeric values in the tables of the memory in the EDC to get the same result.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
Hey Wayne,
Electronic and mechanical are two approaches to the same goal: controlling the fuel injected into the engine. In the end, the result is the exact same. In both methods, the only thing that ultimately happens is that the rack is positioned for a given RPM and boost level.
As far as timing, both M series pumps have the same exact timing device - mechanical.
A mechanical pump has to use a complex series of interacting levers, springs and weights to create a fuel delivery profile. The electronic pump simply relies on calculations from the EDC based on input from various sensors to accomplish the same thing so it doesn't need nearly as many mechanicals. Where you would turn a screw or change a spring in a mechanical pump, you just alter a sensor signal or better yet, the numeric values in the tables of the memory in the EDC to get the same result.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
(02-04-2011, 07:24 PM)mantahead Does anyone know of any restrictions with electronic pump?The ECM is not programmable in the vehicle and every other computer in the car (transmission, anti-theft, instrument cluster, etc) is tied into its operation.
Quote:Can rpm be raised through mapping and boost limit raised or signal clamped.The ECM has direct control over the injection pump rack. There is no limit to what it can be set to.
Quote:why is there so little in the back of electronic pump (rack position sensor and solenoid or stepper motor to operate governor) when there is so many adjustments in older mechanical pump.The computer does all of the same functions except its not limited by mechanical movements. It can be programmed to adjust fueling for many different conditions that a mechanical governor could not accomplish practically.
A mechanical pump has inputs for throttle position, RPM and boost pressure/altitude. It takes only those into consideration when moving the rack.
An ECM can also monitor airflow, EGR position, coolant temperature, transmission gear, vehicle speed, a/c operation and countless other potential inputs.
The mechanical governor works fine, the ECM's primary benefits are for emissions and fine tuning.
Quote:its just the governor rod that moves in electronic pumpYes.
ForcedInduction
02-05-2011, 06:52 AM
#3
(02-04-2011, 07:24 PM)mantahead Does anyone know of any restrictions with electronic pump?The ECM is not programmable in the vehicle and every other computer in the car (transmission, anti-theft, instrument cluster, etc) is tied into its operation.
Quote:Can rpm be raised through mapping and boost limit raised or signal clamped.The ECM has direct control over the injection pump rack. There is no limit to what it can be set to.
Quote:why is there so little in the back of electronic pump (rack position sensor and solenoid or stepper motor to operate governor) when there is so many adjustments in older mechanical pump.The computer does all of the same functions except its not limited by mechanical movements. It can be programmed to adjust fueling for many different conditions that a mechanical governor could not accomplish practically.
A mechanical pump has inputs for throttle position, RPM and boost pressure/altitude. It takes only those into consideration when moving the rack.
An ECM can also monitor airflow, EGR position, coolant temperature, transmission gear, vehicle speed, a/c operation and countless other potential inputs.
The mechanical governor works fine, the ECM's primary benefits are for emissions and fine tuning.
Quote:its just the governor rod that moves in electronic pumpYes.
(02-05-2011, 02:13 PM)mantahead sorry what do you mean the ECM is not programmable, do you mean it can't be remapped
The same thing. The ECM must be removed to be programmed/flashed/mapped.
ForcedInduction
02-05-2011, 06:41 PM
#5
(02-05-2011, 02:13 PM)mantahead sorry what do you mean the ECM is not programmable, do you mean it can't be remapped
The same thing. The ECM must be removed to be programmed/flashed/mapped.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
Right, it's old style with a removable chip. PROM, I think...
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
If it's prom, get a prom emulator, and run the tuning software on a laptop, just like the DSM guys did before ECMLink ate up the market.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
1. What software would you use.
2. How do you know it's compatible with the way Bosch programs their PROM's.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
That would be fantastic if it was possible. I'd love to be able to tinker with the fuel maps, etc... My questions would be:
1. What software would you use.
2. How do you know it's compatible with the way Bosch programs their PROM's.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
No idea/clue/anything if it would ever work with a Bosch setup.
You'd need whatever software you use to remap anyways, just instead of removing, erasing, burning, and reinstalling an eeprom, you'd download it to the emulator, only burning an eeprom when you consider it properly tuned to your liking.
I only know early 90's Mitsubishi ECU's, and not 100% of them even.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
The software is always ECU specific, and the emulator takes a rom image, like if you were to program the eeprom.
No idea/clue/anything if it would ever work with a Bosch setup.
You'd need whatever software you use to remap anyways, just instead of removing, erasing, burning, and reinstalling an eeprom, you'd download it to the emulator, only burning an eeprom when you consider it properly tuned to your liking.
I only know early 90's Mitsubishi ECU's, and not 100% of them even.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
It could be mapped while still installed and hoooked up, but not sure if the Bosch ecu will like the prom contents changing while the engine is running/key in "run" position.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
I would like some advice, on using an electric in line pump to feed electronic pump on om605. The difference being the plastic fuel shut off valve on the side of the pump. I had a pump hooked up temporary when i was having problems getting my car to start and i noticed the diesel could be forced through this valve even when the ignition was off. I never used it then.
Can an electric pump be used with this valve without doing it any harm
wayne
hi guys,
I would like some advice, on using an electric in line pump to feed electronic pump on om605. The difference being the plastic fuel shut off valve on the side of the pump. I had a pump hooked up temporary when i was having problems getting my car to start and i noticed the diesel could be forced through this valve even when the ignition was off. I never used it then.
Can an electric pump be used with this valve without doing it any harm
wayne
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