400hp w210, om606 Turbo or 320cdi?
400hp w210, om606 Turbo or 320cdi?
01-26-2011, 03:10 AM
#52
(01-25-2011, 07:05 PM)greg123 Great stuff! Why lower EMP with the higher rail pressure? Because you are reducing the duration and thus keeping injection in a narrower more efficient window?
Greg.
Exactly
Combustion chamber is in piston.
Piston is in its best position, when decent burning can actually happen - very short time.
There is no interst to spray so long time, that there is no time left for burning it.
More fuel needs more time for burn, so in real life, spray-window gets narrowed, when volume increases.
Higher pressure brakes the fuel drops to smaller pieces.
Burning begins at surface of the drop.
Bigger drops burns longer, smaller shorter.
Smaller drops finds the oxygen atoms easier.
Injectors works better and quicker with higher pressure.
The force of pressure peak focus better to piston and less to exhaust manifold.
Less smoke.
(01-25-2011, 07:05 PM)greg123 Great stuff! Why lower EMP with the higher rail pressure? Because you are reducing the duration and thus keeping injection in a narrower more efficient window?
Greg.
Exactly
Combustion chamber is in piston.
Piston is in its best position, when decent burning can actually happen - very short time.
There is no interst to spray so long time, that there is no time left for burning it.
More fuel needs more time for burn, so in real life, spray-window gets narrowed, when volume increases.
Higher pressure brakes the fuel drops to smaller pieces.
Burning begins at surface of the drop.
Bigger drops burns longer, smaller shorter.
Smaller drops finds the oxygen atoms easier.
Injectors works better and quicker with higher pressure.
The force of pressure peak focus better to piston and less to exhaust manifold.
Less smoke.
01-26-2011, 03:22 AM
#53
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-26-2011, 03:22 AM #53I think we are running down the right road now.....keep us posted Tuikku how she performs today at 1500bar and higher.......I presume you are remapping lightly to alter the rail pressure?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
01-26-2011, 02:52 PM
#54
I have been driven today few hours with 1500bar.
More power, less smoke, as I wait.
Eerything works ok, no problems.
Duration max is 100mm^3 + pressure encreasing.
When duration time is same 1350-> 1500, higher pressure gives a bit extra to fuellin rate, ~11%. - Power - I don´t know, but not less.
Orig max duration between 1600-3000rpm is 70-73mm^3.
Tomorrow I´ll possibly have the bigger injectors, but I don´t know, when I´ll have time to mount them, hopefully at the weekend, but not sure.
If engine works with big injectors, like today - interesting times coming.
I get duration quite easily to +130mm^3 level, even with this 1500bar railpressure, which begins to be near 2X orig duration.
I´m not sure, if that turbo can stand so much.
But, we will see.
.
I have been driven today few hours with 1500bar.
More power, less smoke, as I wait.
Eerything works ok, no problems.
Duration max is 100mm^3 + pressure encreasing.
When duration time is same 1350-> 1500, higher pressure gives a bit extra to fuellin rate, ~11%. - Power - I don´t know, but not less.
Orig max duration between 1600-3000rpm is 70-73mm^3.
Tomorrow I´ll possibly have the bigger injectors, but I don´t know, when I´ll have time to mount them, hopefully at the weekend, but not sure.
If engine works with big injectors, like today - interesting times coming.
I get duration quite easily to +130mm^3 level, even with this 1500bar railpressure, which begins to be near 2X orig duration.
I´m not sure, if that turbo can stand so much.
But, we will see.
01-30-2011, 01:22 PM
#57
New, big injectors installed now.
Hard to say anything about power.
Too slippery, it is winter here.
Working is ok.
Engine do not sound like diesel any more, when accelerate.
It seems, that transmission do not like at all this "new situation", next job is to do something to avoid it´s total collapse.
.
New, big injectors installed now.
Hard to say anything about power.
Too slippery, it is winter here.
Working is ok.
Engine do not sound like diesel any more, when accelerate.
It seems, that transmission do not like at all this "new situation", next job is to do something to avoid it´s total collapse.
01-30-2011, 07:00 PM
#58
(01-30-2011, 01:22 PM)tuikku .
New, big injectors installed now.
Hard to say anything about power.
Too slippery, it is winter here.
Working is ok.
Engine do not sound like diesel any more, when accelerate.
It seems, that transmission do not like at all this "new situation", next job is to do something to avoid it´s total collapse.
A six speed manual from a Sprinter perhaps....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-30-2011, 07:00 PM #58(01-30-2011, 01:22 PM)tuikku .
New, big injectors installed now.
Hard to say anything about power.
Too slippery, it is winter here.
Working is ok.
Engine do not sound like diesel any more, when accelerate.
It seems, that transmission do not like at all this "new situation", next job is to do something to avoid it´s total collapse.
A six speed manual from a Sprinter perhaps....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
02-02-2011, 08:40 PM
#60
02-03-2011, 02:31 PM
#61
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
George3soccer
02-03-2011, 02:31 PM #61Please make a video, would love to hear this motor, if it doesnt seem to sounds like a diesel anymore. Love it.
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
02-03-2011, 03:52 PM
#62
(02-02-2011, 08:40 PM)pdxgrease so you are slipping the torque converter? Where in the power band? Are you sure it isnt possible to strengthen the internals of your existing transmission? I know it would be hard to dyno if its slipping (obviously) but i would love to see the graph.
Yes
1500rpm-> + 3000rpm.
Fuelling rate is then at least 120mm^3.
I´ll try the strengthen first, the problem is that I don´t know anything about autom. transmissions.
Hope a friend of mine here helps.
Modded turbine, gaskets and little more oil pressure, I guess.
I´m going to go dyno, I´m curious also, ofcourse.
Quite sure, that I found suitable 1600bar railsensor.
Tomorrow I´ll try to buy it and hopefully in weekend I drive with 1600bar railpressure.
(02-03-2011, 02:31 PM)George3soccer Please make a video, would love to hear this motor, if it doesnt seem to sounds like a diesel anymore. Love it.
Maybe some day.
The problem here is, that all these mods are illegal here.
So, all that I do, must look like orig.
This post was last modified: 02-03-2011, 03:58 PM by tuikku.
(02-02-2011, 08:40 PM)pdxgrease so you are slipping the torque converter? Where in the power band? Are you sure it isnt possible to strengthen the internals of your existing transmission? I know it would be hard to dyno if its slipping (obviously) but i would love to see the graph.
Yes
1500rpm-> + 3000rpm.
Fuelling rate is then at least 120mm^3.
I´ll try the strengthen first, the problem is that I don´t know anything about autom. transmissions.
Hope a friend of mine here helps.
Modded turbine, gaskets and little more oil pressure, I guess.
I´m going to go dyno, I´m curious also, ofcourse.
Quite sure, that I found suitable 1600bar railsensor.
Tomorrow I´ll try to buy it and hopefully in weekend I drive with 1600bar railpressure.
(02-03-2011, 02:31 PM)George3soccer Please make a video, would love to hear this motor, if it doesnt seem to sounds like a diesel anymore. Love it.
Maybe some day.
The problem here is, that all these mods are illegal here.
So, all that I do, must look like orig.
02-04-2011, 04:39 AM
#63
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
02-04-2011, 04:39 AM #63I find all the auto boxes in the E320/S320 CDI's(W210 & W220) slip too much....even in there good health. This spoils the performance of a very torquey engine. The W211 seems much better in this regard with torque converter lock up from low rpms. As the auto box and controls are the same/similar in both....surely the W210 gearbox can be tuned to perform like the W211? I have been asking a lot of people about this and haven't received a positive reponse as of yet.....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
02-07-2011, 01:10 AM
#64
This post was last modified: 02-07-2011, 01:12 AM by pdxgrease.
I had a 02 tdi 1.9L bora/jetta making ~200hp/300ftlbs and the TC would slip sometimes. I was able to manually boost pressure within the TC by turning this clicker gear.. I made the transmission shift faster with less transition. Obviously we are talking about different automatics but perhaps there is a way to beef up the TC and boost line pressure.
02-09-2011, 06:37 PM
#66
Greg.
Great stuff, yes higher pressure has disdvantage of more problem with leaks, one of the reasons they don't run at 5,000 bar! Any ideas on the turbo yet, how about going compound/series with that turbo being fed by a very large VNT? Lot of manifold work, but good bottom end and power.
Greg.
02-10-2011, 05:37 AM
#67
Bottom end power is not any problem.
I get it easily much more, that any transmission can stand, +1000nm.
I already have it enough, it is now somewhere between 750-800nm.
Now 120mm^3 vs orig 72mm^3, which gives that 480nm.
This turbo is now the strongest candidate.
0,63 A/R turbine housing option looks very attractive about me.
Turbine wheel, 60mm is also ok.
Very good pressure ration and good efficiency at 2 bar pressure, which I propably need, not more.
These MB´s Di-engines stand´s very well high back pressures.
I am not very interested in those huge VNT,s.
They are not very easy to get work properly in small engines.
.
Bottom end power is not any problem.
I get it easily much more, that any transmission can stand, +1000nm.
I already have it enough, it is now somewhere between 750-800nm.
Now 120mm^3 vs orig 72mm^3, which gives that 480nm.
This turbo is now the strongest candidate.
0,63 A/R turbine housing option looks very attractive about me.
Turbine wheel, 60mm is also ok.
Very good pressure ration and good efficiency at 2 bar pressure, which I propably need, not more.
These MB´s Di-engines stand´s very well high back pressures.
I am not very interested in those huge VNT,s.
They are not very easy to get work properly in small engines.
02-10-2011, 01:48 PM
#68
http://www.full-race.com/articles/borgwa...urbos.html
And, as written via mail, if you are interessted in a custom performance camshaft, let me know ;-)
Regards, Alex
Tuikku, what about the borg warner EFR series turbos? They look nice to me.....
http://www.full-race.com/articles/borgwa...urbos.html
And, as written via mail, if you are interessted in a custom performance camshaft, let me know ;-)
Regards, Alex
02-10-2011, 04:31 PM
#69
A newcomer to the thread and the forum.
I am very interested in the work you are doing to your om613.
Just to stay clear, what is the limiting factor in the engine in the inital stages of tuning, injectors, pump or turbo?
alexanderfoti
02-10-2011, 04:31 PM #69Hi all
A newcomer to the thread and the forum.
I am very interested in the work you are doing to your om613.
Just to stay clear, what is the limiting factor in the engine in the inital stages of tuning, injectors, pump or turbo?
02-11-2011, 04:52 AM
#70
(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)alexanderfoti Hi all
A newcomer to the thread and the forum.
I am very interested in the work you are doing to your om613.
Just to stay clear, what is the limiting factor in the engine in the inital stages of tuning, injectors, pump or turbo?
(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)tuikku How much power do you want ?
650nm/260-270hp you can get with bigger cooler and 3bar map.
With decent remap, but I have no idea, where you can get that.
Orig cooler is like joke.
Alex
Yes, I noticed it
I think, that turbine housings are too large for my purposes.
I like very much to hear your opinion.
Holset 35/super is also one good candidate, I think.
And cheap !.
And big, that´s not good.
Garrett is in the latest design and compact size.
(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)alexanderfoti Hi all
A newcomer to the thread and the forum.
I am very interested in the work you are doing to your om613.
Just to stay clear, what is the limiting factor in the engine in the inital stages of tuning, injectors, pump or turbo?
(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)tuikku How much power do you want ?
650nm/260-270hp you can get with bigger cooler and 3bar map.
With decent remap, but I have no idea, where you can get that.
Orig cooler is like joke.
Alex
Yes, I noticed it
I think, that turbine housings are too large for my purposes.
I like very much to hear your opinion.
Holset 35/super is also one good candidate, I think.
And cheap !.
And big, that´s not good.
Garrett is in the latest design and compact size.
02-11-2011, 05:38 AM
#71
(02-11-2011, 04:52 AM)tuikku(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)alexanderfoti
(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)tuikku How much power do you want ?
650nm/260-270hp you can get with bigger cooler and 3bar map.
With decent remap, but I have no idea, where you can get that.
Orig cooler is like joke.
Alex
Yes, I noticed it
I think, that turbine housings are too large for my purposes.
I like very much to hear your opinion.
Holset 35/super is also one good candidate, I think.
And cheap !.
And big, that´s not good.
Garrett is in the latest design and compact size.
Hmm that sounds positive. Can I do 3 bar on the stock turbo with a bigger intercooler? About 300bhp/700nm torque would be nice
This post was last modified: 02-11-2011, 05:43 AM by alexanderfoti.
alexanderfoti
02-11-2011, 05:38 AM #71(02-11-2011, 04:52 AM)tuikku(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)alexanderfoti
(02-10-2011, 04:31 PM)tuikku How much power do you want ?
650nm/260-270hp you can get with bigger cooler and 3bar map.
With decent remap, but I have no idea, where you can get that.
Orig cooler is like joke.
Alex
Yes, I noticed it
I think, that turbine housings are too large for my purposes.
I like very much to hear your opinion.
Holset 35/super is also one good candidate, I think.
And cheap !.
And big, that´s not good.
Garrett is in the latest design and compact size.
Hmm that sounds positive. Can I do 3 bar on the stock turbo with a bigger intercooler? About 300bhp/700nm torque would be nice
02-11-2011, 06:22 AM
#73
(02-11-2011, 06:04 AM)tuikku .
Do not put words in my mouth.
I did not promise 300hp, look above.
3bar map is a sensor, not pressure.
Orig charger cannot do even 2bar boost.
I was not, I was responding to the question in post number 70.
So the limitation is the turbo at the beggining of tuning.
at the moment I have just a new engine map with increased boost/fuel, and at the moment my limitation on tuning is the turbo?
alexanderfoti
02-11-2011, 06:22 AM #73(02-11-2011, 06:04 AM)tuikku .
Do not put words in my mouth.
I did not promise 300hp, look above.
3bar map is a sensor, not pressure.
Orig charger cannot do even 2bar boost.
I was not, I was responding to the question in post number 70.
So the limitation is the turbo at the beggining of tuning.
at the moment I have just a new engine map with increased boost/fuel, and at the moment my limitation on tuning is the turbo?
02-11-2011, 06:44 AM
#74
And as a second, not to forget limitation of automatic transmission.
If you dont do anything about it, it will go into limp mode after 1.5sec with more than 600Nm.
If you have TCU Siemens SG53 you can recode TCU via SD to AMG setup which allows a little more torque, but if you have SG52 you cant....
Regards, Alex
This post was last modified: 02-11-2011, 06:50 AM by majesty78.
Turbo, Intercooler, Duration, Railpressure, Injector size, Exhaust....beyond a certain point EVERYTHING is limiting somehow, all engine componens are made to give oem 197hp/470Nm with durability. Changing just one component lets you run into limitation of the next component and so on....
And as a second, not to forget limitation of automatic transmission.
If you dont do anything about it, it will go into limp mode after 1.5sec with more than 600Nm.
If you have TCU Siemens SG53 you can recode TCU via SD to AMG setup which allows a little more torque, but if you have SG52 you cant....
Regards, Alex
02-11-2011, 06:53 AM
#75
(02-11-2011, 06:44 AM)majesty78 Turbo, Intercooler, Duration, Railpressure, Injector size, Exhaust....beyond a certain point EVERYTHING is limiting somehow, all engine componens are made to give oem 197hp/470Nm with durability. Changing just one component lets you run into limitation of the next component and so on....
Yeah that makes sense, but for the moment I have a small remap.
Im assuming that the boost pressure has been upped a bit along with the injected fuel amount.
If now want to get a bit more power out of it, is it the turbo boost capacity that I have reached, and I need a bigger turbo or is it another aspect?
sorry, im not very good at describing this
alexanderfoti
02-11-2011, 06:53 AM #75(02-11-2011, 06:44 AM)majesty78 Turbo, Intercooler, Duration, Railpressure, Injector size, Exhaust....beyond a certain point EVERYTHING is limiting somehow, all engine componens are made to give oem 197hp/470Nm with durability. Changing just one component lets you run into limitation of the next component and so on....
Yeah that makes sense, but for the moment I have a small remap.
Im assuming that the boost pressure has been upped a bit along with the injected fuel amount.
If now want to get a bit more power out of it, is it the turbo boost capacity that I have reached, and I need a bigger turbo or is it another aspect?
sorry, im not very good at describing this
02-11-2011, 07:26 AM
#77
(02-11-2011, 07:04 AM)majesty78 As nobody knows what your remap looks like, i guess it is hard to say.
What kind of power should it have now?
It should have about 230bhp now.
I can attach the map file if anybody can decifer?
Also, sorry for hijacking the thread, should I start another?
alexanderfoti
02-11-2011, 07:26 AM #77(02-11-2011, 07:04 AM)majesty78 As nobody knows what your remap looks like, i guess it is hard to say.
What kind of power should it have now?
It should have about 230bhp now.
I can attach the map file if anybody can decifer?
Also, sorry for hijacking the thread, should I start another?
02-11-2011, 01:04 PM
#79
This post was last modified: 02-11-2011, 01:05 PM by pdxgrease.
so here's the question.. if you can buy a used w210 e55 for $8-12k.. At what point is it just a waste of money to mod a diesel for max power. The e55 makes 357hp and almost 400 ft lbs gets 17city and 24 hwy. I think its really cool to watch the evolution of this diesel w210 get power modded to the extreme.. but I wonder about the running bill$ for the project. Seems like for bang-for-the-buck just getting the amg gasser is actually cheaper overall.
02-11-2011, 03:46 PM
#80
(02-11-2011, 01:04 PM)pdxgrease so here's the question.. if you can buy a used w210 e55 for $8-12k.. At what point is it just a waste of money to mod a diesel for max power. The e55 makes 357hp and almost 400 ft lbs gets 17city and 24 hwy. I think its really cool to watch the evolution of this diesel w210 get power modded to the extreme.. but I wonder about the running bill$ for the project. Seems like for bang-for-the-buck just getting the amg gasser is actually cheaper overall.
You obviously have cheap gas in your parish...we pay approximately $7.29 per US gallon(3.8 litres) for gas here in Ireland...diesel runs for approximately $6.77 per US gallon. In reality,we find big gas engines absolutely guzzle the stuff when worked hard,I've seen big Mercs return about 15 MPG when driven hard whereas CDI's can easily return 30 MPG when the ass is driven off them...and not only that but the CDI can generally leave a gasser for dead in the hills where the superior torque and pulling power makes the gasser feel anaemic.
Having run both gassers and diesels for the last 30 years,diesels work out about 60% of the running cost of an equivalent gasser. That's why on this side of the big pond diesels account for 50%-60% of the total European car sales.....and besides the performance of the modern CDI's,TDi's,HDI's etc... are exhillerating
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
02-11-2011, 03:46 PM #80(02-11-2011, 01:04 PM)pdxgrease so here's the question.. if you can buy a used w210 e55 for $8-12k.. At what point is it just a waste of money to mod a diesel for max power. The e55 makes 357hp and almost 400 ft lbs gets 17city and 24 hwy. I think its really cool to watch the evolution of this diesel w210 get power modded to the extreme.. but I wonder about the running bill$ for the project. Seems like for bang-for-the-buck just getting the amg gasser is actually cheaper overall.
You obviously have cheap gas in your parish...we pay approximately $7.29 per US gallon(3.8 litres) for gas here in Ireland...diesel runs for approximately $6.77 per US gallon. In reality,we find big gas engines absolutely guzzle the stuff when worked hard,I've seen big Mercs return about 15 MPG when driven hard whereas CDI's can easily return 30 MPG when the ass is driven off them...and not only that but the CDI can generally leave a gasser for dead in the hills where the superior torque and pulling power makes the gasser feel anaemic.
Having run both gassers and diesels for the last 30 years,diesels work out about 60% of the running cost of an equivalent gasser. That's why on this side of the big pond diesels account for 50%-60% of the total European car sales.....and besides the performance of the modern CDI's,TDi's,HDI's etc... are exhillerating
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
02-11-2011, 04:54 PM
#81
You obviously have cheap gas in your parish...we pay approximately $7.29 per US gallon(3.8 litres) for gas here in Ireland...diesel runs for approximately $6.77 per US gallon. In reality,we find big gas engines absolutely guzzle the stuff when worked hard,I've seen big Mercs return about 15 MPG when driven hard whereas CDI's can easily return 30 MPG when the ass is driven off them...and not only that but the CDI can generally leave a gasser for dead in the hills where the superior torque and pulling power makes the gasser feel anaemic.
Having run both gassers and diesels for the last 30 years,diesels work out about 60% of the running cost of an equivalent gasser. That's why on this side of the big pond diesels account for 50%-60% of the total European car sales.....and besides the performance of the modern CDI's,TDi's,HDI's etc... are exhillerating
[/quote]
Defo agree. In the UK where I am , the diesel offers the best bang for the buck as it were, 3000 I paid for mine, and apart from the rust its great, on the motorway I get 40 mpg easily and the torque is intoxicating!
In addition the insurance in the uk is a lot less for my diesel than the equivalent petrol e class. Its also very hard to find a good example of a e55, and when you can they are very expensive
(02-11-2011, 11:12 AM)majesty78 You should not post up a tuning file on the internet ; -)
Was goin to offer to PM it
RE the gearbox I will have a look at what ecu I have, I have star so shouldnt be a prob to recode.
This post was last modified: 02-11-2011, 04:57 PM by alexanderfoti.
alexanderfoti
02-11-2011, 04:54 PM #81
You obviously have cheap gas in your parish...we pay approximately $7.29 per US gallon(3.8 litres) for gas here in Ireland...diesel runs for approximately $6.77 per US gallon. In reality,we find big gas engines absolutely guzzle the stuff when worked hard,I've seen big Mercs return about 15 MPG when driven hard whereas CDI's can easily return 30 MPG when the ass is driven off them...and not only that but the CDI can generally leave a gasser for dead in the hills where the superior torque and pulling power makes the gasser feel anaemic.
Having run both gassers and diesels for the last 30 years,diesels work out about 60% of the running cost of an equivalent gasser. That's why on this side of the big pond diesels account for 50%-60% of the total European car sales.....and besides the performance of the modern CDI's,TDi's,HDI's etc... are exhillerating
[/quote]
Defo agree. In the UK where I am , the diesel offers the best bang for the buck as it were, 3000 I paid for mine, and apart from the rust its great, on the motorway I get 40 mpg easily and the torque is intoxicating!
In addition the insurance in the uk is a lot less for my diesel than the equivalent petrol e class. Its also very hard to find a good example of a e55, and when you can they are very expensive
(02-11-2011, 11:12 AM)majesty78 You should not post up a tuning file on the internet ; -)
Was goin to offer to PM it
RE the gearbox I will have a look at what ecu I have, I have star so shouldnt be a prob to recode.
02-12-2011, 04:29 AM
#82
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
.
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
02-12-2011, 05:19 AM
#83
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
Thats very true. and makes lots of sense.
Its actually good timing as my current intercooler has a leak from a stone! (grr) so I will have a look around at whats available.
Thanks!
alexanderfoti
02-12-2011, 05:19 AM #83(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
Thats very true. and makes lots of sense.
Its actually good timing as my current intercooler has a leak from a stone! (grr) so I will have a look around at whats available.
Thanks!
02-12-2011, 10:08 AM
#84
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
Thats absolutely true, even when revving the engine in neutral shortly the intake air temperatures raise 10-15degrees over ambient temperature, WITHOUT load.....
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
Thats a common problem to chiptuning, not really MB related ;-)
Find someone who really is deep into remapping AND is willing to take a big amount of time for your project is one of the biggest difficulty...
Regards, Alex
This post was last modified: 02-12-2011, 02:42 PM by majesty78.
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
Thats absolutely true, even when revving the engine in neutral shortly the intake air temperatures raise 10-15degrees over ambient temperature, WITHOUT load.....
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
Thats a common problem to chiptuning, not really MB related ;-)
Find someone who really is deep into remapping AND is willing to take a big amount of time for your project is one of the biggest difficulty...
Regards, Alex
02-12-2011, 10:15 AM
#85
(02-12-2011, 10:08 AM)majesty78(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
?
alexanderfoti
02-12-2011, 10:15 AM #85(02-12-2011, 10:08 AM)majesty78(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
?
02-14-2011, 03:00 AM
#87
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
02-14-2011, 03:00 AM #87So Tuikku....Have you found any way around the transmission issue yet?....Are we going to have to swap it out for something better or can we improve the current unit?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
02-14-2011, 03:14 AM
#88
But if you are looking for topspeed enhancement you are getting another problem.
Gear ratio in 5th gear is quite short so you are ending up in rpm limiter even with remapping only.
There is no longer gear ratio diff available and even if it was, its no plug and play because TCU throws an error code if speed signal and engine rpm/ selected gear dont match up like with original gear ratio anymore: -(((
I think you can use 722.6 internals like friction discs from AMG transmission.
But if you are looking for topspeed enhancement you are getting another problem.
Gear ratio in 5th gear is quite short so you are ending up in rpm limiter even with remapping only.
There is no longer gear ratio diff available and even if it was, its no plug and play because TCU throws an error code if speed signal and engine rpm/ selected gear dont match up like with original gear ratio anymore: -(((
02-14-2011, 06:26 PM
#89
(02-14-2011, 03:14 AM)majesty78 I think you can use 722.6 internals like friction discs from AMG transmission.
But if you are looking for topspeed enhancement you are getting another problem.
Gear ratio in 5th gear is quite short so you are ending up in rpm limiter even with remapping only.
There is no longer gear ratio diff available and even if it was, its no plug and play because TCU throws an error code if speed signal and engine rpm/ selected gear dont match up like with original gear ratio anymore: -(((
Judging by my BMW E60 525d 6 speed manual.....a taller ratio would suit perfectly....at 1750 rpms the E60 returns 60mph and feels top notch as regards a blend of economy and power. My W220 E320 CDI 5 speed auto needs over 2000rpms for the same speed and feels its revving too hard.
So....what's the solution Majesty....can we fit a six speed manual....is it possible to reprogramme/fool the canbus to do this?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
02-14-2011, 06:26 PM #89(02-14-2011, 03:14 AM)majesty78 I think you can use 722.6 internals like friction discs from AMG transmission.
But if you are looking for topspeed enhancement you are getting another problem.
Gear ratio in 5th gear is quite short so you are ending up in rpm limiter even with remapping only.
There is no longer gear ratio diff available and even if it was, its no plug and play because TCU throws an error code if speed signal and engine rpm/ selected gear dont match up like with original gear ratio anymore: -(((
Judging by my BMW E60 525d 6 speed manual.....a taller ratio would suit perfectly....at 1750 rpms the E60 returns 60mph and feels top notch as regards a blend of economy and power. My W220 E320 CDI 5 speed auto needs over 2000rpms for the same speed and feels its revving too hard.
So....what's the solution Majesty....can we fit a six speed manual....is it possible to reprogramme/fool the canbus to do this?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
02-15-2011, 12:16 PM
#90
(02-14-2011, 03:00 AM)Riverstick So Tuikku....Have you found any way around the transmission issue yet?....Are we going to have to swap it out for something better or can we improve the current unit?
No, I haven´t done anything.
Alexis tip is good, I´ll do that.
It is damn gold here now ... and I am quite busy at least a month further.
Car works ok and actually my wife is driving it.
She says, that it works, so it must do that.
(02-14-2011, 03:00 AM)Riverstick So Tuikku....Have you found any way around the transmission issue yet?....Are we going to have to swap it out for something better or can we improve the current unit?
No, I haven´t done anything.
Alexis tip is good, I´ll do that.
It is damn gold here now ... and I am quite busy at least a month further.
Car works ok and actually my wife is driving it.
She says, that it works, so it must do that.
02-17-2011, 07:33 PM
#91
(02-15-2011, 12:16 PM)tuikku(02-14-2011, 03:00 AM)Riverstick So Tuikku....Have you found any way around the transmission issue yet?....Are we going to have to swap it out for something better or can we improve the current unit?
No, I haven´t done anything.
Alexis tip is good, I´ll do that.
It is damn gold here now ... and I am quite busy at least a month further.
Car works ok and actually my wife is driving it.
She says, that it works, so it must do that.
I had a measure of the IATs when driving around on boost etc, and whilst its cold here, they were around 75-80F.
Not too bad.
Once intercooler is done, what turbo should I be looking at?
alexanderfoti
02-17-2011, 07:33 PM #91(02-15-2011, 12:16 PM)tuikku(02-14-2011, 03:00 AM)Riverstick So Tuikku....Have you found any way around the transmission issue yet?....Are we going to have to swap it out for something better or can we improve the current unit?
No, I haven´t done anything.
Alexis tip is good, I´ll do that.
It is damn gold here now ... and I am quite busy at least a month further.
Car works ok and actually my wife is driving it.
She says, that it works, so it must do that.
I had a measure of the IATs when driving around on boost etc, and whilst its cold here, they were around 75-80F.
Not too bad.
Once intercooler is done, what turbo should I be looking at?
02-19-2011, 03:36 AM
#92
Full throttle temp. is only, that matters.
It does not rise to anywhere, when you just drive around.
Try first to have the power -> ~270-280hp, you need bigger turbo only after that.
The orig 2359 is quite good, in fact.
There is no "plug and play" - alternative.
.
Full throttle temp. is only, that matters.
It does not rise to anywhere, when you just drive around.
Try first to have the power -> ~270-280hp, you need bigger turbo only after that.
The orig 2359 is quite good, in fact.
There is no "plug and play" - alternative.
02-19-2011, 04:49 AM
#93
(02-19-2011, 03:36 AM)tuikku .
Full throttle temp. is only, that matters.
It does not rise to anywhere, when you just drive around.
Try first to have the power -> ~270-280hp, you need bigger turbo only after that.
The orig 2359 is quite good, in fact.
There is no "plug and play" - alternative.
Thats all I needed, thanks very much for your help.
alexanderfoti
02-19-2011, 04:49 AM #93(02-19-2011, 03:36 AM)tuikku .
Full throttle temp. is only, that matters.
It does not rise to anywhere, when you just drive around.
Try first to have the power -> ~270-280hp, you need bigger turbo only after that.
The orig 2359 is quite good, in fact.
There is no "plug and play" - alternative.
Thats all I needed, thanks very much for your help.
02-23-2011, 05:15 AM
#95
(02-22-2011, 01:56 PM)majesty78 Uhm, tuikku.....
Where is the cooling fan gone?
I was just speculating for the OM628 pump and cant imagine how the fan should fit back in there when this pump is used....???
Regards, Alex
You are the first one, who ever have mentioned about it.
There aren´t any fan, maybe I have to do something about it before summer.
It is not so big deal, one or two el. fans.
(02-22-2011, 01:56 PM)majesty78 Uhm, tuikku.....
Where is the cooling fan gone?
I was just speculating for the OM628 pump and cant imagine how the fan should fit back in there when this pump is used....???
Regards, Alex
You are the first one, who ever have mentioned about it.
There aren´t any fan, maybe I have to do something about it before summer.
It is not so big deal, one or two el. fans.
02-25-2011, 12:55 PM
#98
http://www.importperformancetrans.com/ca...-51-1.html
Regards, Alex
Tuikku, reffering to transmission problems, you might be interessted in this:
http://www.importperformancetrans.com/ca...-51-1.html
Regards, Alex
02-26-2011, 01:06 PM
#100
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
George3soccer
02-26-2011, 01:06 PM #100Wow never knew that shop is literally 20min. from me.
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
Users browsing this thread:
47 Guest(s)
47 Guest(s)
Users browsing this thread:
47 Guest(s)
47 Guest(s)